Drakes/Marston group balliffs broken my lock and pushed over my baby daughter-PLEASE HELP!!!!

[berrylover]

Do you need any brain cells at all to be a bailiff, I thought the standard qualities needed were a need to look menacing (especially when confronted with a woman or person with disability), pig-headedness, excellent bullying skills, and a grip of maths which results in 2+2= £256.75.

[Fair-Parking]

Actually I do feel for John McKenna who I also believe genuinely feels that what he has been taught by his superiors at Marstons is correct. I can also admire his spirit for putting his above the parapet and coming on to this forum when many in his trade prefer to operate anonymously from the shadows. So credit where credit is due.

 

In relation to his point that there is no legislation that he can quote that allows a bailiff to put his foot in the door, but equally we cannot show any legislation to show that a bailiff, the answer is very simple.

 

If it is law in this country there will be a statute covering it. If it is not law then there won't be. Thus - you can and should John, we can't and don't have to. John, we know that a law allowing foot in door and locksmiths does not exist which is why you cannot find it.

 

However on the question of locksmiths, you should be able to give a witnessed example if this is reality and not just an intimidating threat in a Marstons' letter.

[JonCris]

Locksmiths are used in the case of an eviction or entry by a utility but that's still not a civil debt & wasn't it Blair & his ministers who responded to the petition by Peter Bard saying it wasn't fair on creditors that debtors could just close their door to the problem hence the not yet introduced powers to break into peoples homes & assault them.

 

But until that time arrives bailiffs break the law if they force their way into a private dwelling

[John McKenna]

Joncris and Fair-Parking,

 

I know you don't want to accept it but it's a fact that HMCS considers the foot in door "reasonable" as a means of continued communication. This is a guideline to the bailiff companies involved in the collection of unpaid criminal fines only. I haven't for one minute suggested this is a legal forum of "peaceful entry". If you want to take issue with this I suggest you contact HMCS yourself.

 

With regards the use of locksmiths (with Police in attendance), I'm afraid it's a well known fact that although not often used, the power does exist for both civilian and approved enforcement officers to use if necessary.

 

Magistrate Court Fines,Distress Warrant,Clamping Orders,Fines,HMCS,warrants,Drakes Group,Philips Collection,Swift Credit,Warrant of distress,CSA & Debt Collection

 

Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 (c. 28)

[dbspider]

The person trying to shut the door is perfectly within their rights to apply as much force as possible in an attempt to close the door.

 

 

So for fines it maybe ok but for council tax then it is wrong but exceptable to continue communications

 

but going from your words the person can use any force to close the door so the next time a bailiff comes to my door and if his foot goes in the door i will hit his leg with a baseball bat or even better a sledge hammer from the shed that is what i would count as using force for you to removing your foot

[JonCris]

John once again your attempting to use the powers granted a bailiff collecting criminal fines which is not in dispute

 

The collection of civil debts is not done under warrant but an order & whilst putting your foot in the door may be a lawful prelude to entering to recover a criminal fine it does not apply to a civil debt & never has

 

It's because of this confusion amongst your profession (no doubt fostered by employers) in thinking both are equal when they are not which I can only assume has led to this widespread practice amongst bailiffs

[JonCris]

Force should be reasonable but in many cases where it has been bailiffs complain to the police that they have been injured when in fact reasonable force was used but the police in their role as P/T debt collectors continue to assist the law breaker, the bailiff & even threaten the occupant with arrest if they don't let the bailiff enter the premises illegally

[dbspider]

yeh jon we all know the police will stick up for the official

 

But i was attempting to show how easy it is for these **** (Socially Correct Upright Man/woman) to exploit what they are told just the same as i said who can say what is the correct definition of force in these situs i seen this as my only means of force since i did not want to talk to this **** about my council tax

[JonCris]

You can actually assault a person by verbally threatening them. In other words you don't need to actually hit someone to be charged & convicted of assault

[louloubella73]

Joncris and Fair-Parking,

 

I know you don't want to accept it but it's a fact that HMCS considers the foot in door "reasonable" as a means of continued communication. This is a guideline to the bailiff companies involved in the collection of unpaid criminal fines only. I haven't for one minute suggested this is a legal forum of "peaceful entry". If you want to take issue with this I suggest you contact HMCS yourself.

 

With regards the use of locksmiths (with Police in attendance), I'm afraid it's a well known fact that although not often used, the power does exist for both civilian and approved enforcement officers to use if necessary.

 

Magistrate Court Fines,Distress Warrant,Clamping Orders,Fines,HMCS,warrants,Drakes Group,Philips Collection,Swift Credit,Warrant of distress,CSA & Debt Collection

 

Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 (c. 28)

 

 

I still don t see what purpose it is meant to achieve other than intimidate someone. Like a previous poster pointed out, would they remain standing there if the occupant of the house proceeded to walk off/ hoover/ go to bed etc etc

 

PS-if you don t want to come across as confrontational, why do you use the phrase 'the devils debt collecter' in your signature-does it make you feel big, powerful and superior or something????

[JonCris]

Don't be too hard on John his input is valuable as it gives us all an insight why even some of the good professional bailiffs act the way they do believing the law supports their often illegal conduct

[louloubella73]

Don't be too hard on John his input is valuable as it gives us all an insight why even some of the good professional bailiffs act the way they do believing the law supports their often illegal conduct

 

 

I m not-I just don t think 'the devils debt collector' slogan is necessary or helpful, in fact I think it s downright provocative considering the nature of this site..

 

People at their wits end in debt turning to this site in desparation don t need

people boasting of their prowess as a bailiff/ debt collector- it s exactly people like him that some are terrified off-doesn t exactly give the impression of him being a nice, reasonable man does it?

[dbspider]

I do agree with joncris that not all bailiffs are bad but they do need to understand that when they want to try and justify there profession methods of obtaining a wage, so they don't have bailiffs at there door, you are on a commission the more money the company makes the bigger your bonus at the end of the day ?

 

Also i also think this is down to alot of the companies that they work for they are the ones who teach them what to do and i really do believe that they are taught to look intimidating give as much bu**s**t as you like because most don't actually know what we are allowed to do and not allowed to do

 

Remember we are a business our main goal is to make money and the more you make us the more you will get back. As it has been proven that companies will stick up for the employee but if the sh*t really hit the fan they will say that this bailiff working on his own and this was not in accordance with our methods why do you think when it has gone to a bailiff they tell you to only deal with him that way they cover there own back

 

the bailiff is just like any other employee of a company except they have a bit of paper saying that the court has looked at them and we find them to be compitant and trust worthy person what comes to mind is sitting your driving test you only need to look like you know what you are doing and have learned the highway code for an hour but once you have that bit of paper you could go out and drive like a nut about the streets and if you don't get caught then you will continue to do it

 

So no you can't fully blame the bailiff they are forced to make targets like any door to door sales man you make us the money we will give you the money to live life if not then you will have one of your own kind at the door

[dbspider]

PS i am not justifying any of there actions as i still regard them to be **** (Socially Correct Upright Man/woman);) but if they are un willing to see past the £££££ signs and see what utter D*ckhe*ds there company is making them look then they deserve to get what ever comes to them

 

Personally if i ever came across the bailiff i had dealings with i would try every dirty trick in the book to have revenge and that is putting it in the politest terms possible

[JonCris]

I recall not so long ago of being in a debtors home, on another matter, when the 'bailiff' called & through some misunderstanding;) he mistook me for the occupant, a fact of which I didn't disabuse him

 

Anyway I invited him in & then listened to him extrapolate about what he could do to extract his pound of flesh. Needless to say I asked questions in such a way that he continued to bury himself. We even spoke about the foot in door & it's legality

 

After about 15 minutes you might say I revealed myself & I can honestly say the guys colour drained from his face. I then told or rather advised him of his 'powers' for want of a better word, then sent him on his way after he apologized to the debtor for trying to mislead him/her as to his powers also he got nowt

 

You can say it's the 1st time I was in the right place at the right time:D

Edited September 18, 2008 by JonCris

[dbspider]

well it shows you when they are confronted by someone who actually knows what they can and can't do they can do nothin but walk away with a red face and there macho d**ks have gone from there said 10 inches to 1 mm between there legs

[John McKenna]

John once again your attempting to use the powers granted a bailiff collecting criminal fines which is not in dispute

I'm afraid several of your fellow bailiff bashers have done nothing but dispute it. My opening comment about the use of forced entry (post 71) was specific to HMCS distress warrants. I've also stated that my comments do not relate to the collection of any other type of debt.

 

 

The collection of civil debts is not done under warrant but an order & whilst putting your foot in the door may be a lawful prelude to entering to recover a criminal fine it does not apply to a civil debt & never has

Which is what I've been saying. Unfortunately, some people aren't able to see the wood from the trees and only read what they want to read.

 

It's because of this confusion amongst your profession (no doubt fostered by employers) in thinking both are equal when they are not which I can only assume has led to this widespread practice amongst bailiffs

Agreed. The employers probably are to blame. I can only speak for Marstons when I say they've made it quite clear to all bailiffs that the use of the "foot in door" and the verbal/written procedure regarding locksmiths can ONLY EVER be used when dealing with HMCS warrants. If any Marstons bailiffs step outside these remits, be it on their back. They all know the rules.

 

 

I m not-I just don t think 'the devils debt collector' slogan is necessary or helpful, in fact I think it s downright provocative considering the nature of this site..

I'm damned either way but accept some may find it provacative. As such I've changed it just for you.

[Topsy27]

John McKenna wrote:

I can only speak for Marstons when I say they've made it quite clear to all bailiffs that the use of the "foot in door" and the verbal/written procedure regarding locksmiths can ONLY EVER be used when dealing with HMCS warrants. If any Marstons bailiffs step outside these remits, be it on their back. They all know the rules.

 

John, can you clear something up for me please? Sorry, I'm not quite familiar with a lot of the terminology.

 

My OH has a CSA Liability Order against him - is this the same as a warrant?

[JonCris]

Topsy no

 

John then we ARE in agreement. But to be clear do you agree that foot in the door scenario is only valid if your about to enforce a warrant for a criminal fine

 

Situations involving civil debt do not allow for it & forced entry to a private dwelling can only be effected if there has been true peaceful entry

[huggy41]

Do you need any brain cells at all to be a bailiff, I thought the standard qualities needed were a need to look menacing (especially when confronted with a woman or person with disability), pig-headedness, excellent bullying skills, and a grip of maths which results in 2+2= £256.75.

 

you forgot about having an IQ less than your shoe size

[Topsy27]

Thanks JonCris.

 

Now where's John McKenna gone when you need him...and let's face it, how often do you need a bailiff?

 

John, OH has a letter from a Marston's bailiff for a CSA Maintenance Arrears Liability Order, and it threatens locksmith, remove goods in our absence and then in handwriting underneath '+ vehicle here'. (Which is my car).

Are you saying he's not supposed to have sent this?

Edited September 18, 2008 by Topsy27
typo

[louloubella73]

I'm afraid several of your fellow bailiff bashers have done nothing but dispute it. My opening comment about the use of forced entry (post 71) was specific to HMCS distress warrants. I've also stated that my comments do not relate to the collection of any other type of debt.

 

 

 

Which is what I've been saying. Unfortunately, some people aren't able to see the wood from the trees and only read what they want to read.

 

 

Agreed. The employers probably are to blame. I can only speak for Marstons when I say they've made it quite clear to all bailiffs that the use of the "foot in door" and the verbal/written procedure regarding locksmiths can ONLY EVER be used when dealing with HMCS warrants. If any Marstons bailiffs step outside these remits, be it on their back. They all know the rules.

 

 

 

I'm damned either way but accept some may find it provacative. As such I've changed it just for you.

 

Mr McKenna thank you for changing the devils advocate/debt collector thing- a bailiff who listens eh? Can t be bad!!

 

BUT....

 

Don t like the self pity lark though-you can t blame your employers for what they tell you/ how they advise you to behave- you Choose to do the job, you choose to accept and act upon the guidelines they give you-God (or should that be satan) didn t decide that your destiny in life was to become a bailiff-you did.

 

And as for bailiff bashers-don t be so dramatic! Read some of the stories on here a little more carefully and then maybe you ll understand the resentment and contempt aimed at people who choose your line of work a little bit better.

[John McKenna]

Don t like the self pity lark though-you can t blame your employers for what they tell you/ how they advise you to behave- you Choose to do the job, you choose to accept and act upon the guidelines they give you-God (or should that be satan) didn t decide that your destiny in life was to become a bailiff-you did.

I haven't blamed my employers. If you read my comments above again you'll see I've specifically exonerated them from blame. I and every other bailiff who works for Marston's have been reminded time and time again what they can and can't do. Any action to the contrary is down to the bailiff concerned.

 

Where does this self pity lark come into anything I've said?

 

And as for bailiff bashers-don t be so dramatic! Read some of the stories on here a little more carefully and then maybe you ll understand the resentment and contempt aimed at people who choose your line of work a little bit better.

I've been lurking around here long enough to know people's reasons for disliking bailiffs. It's easy to start thinking that all bailiffs are legalised criminals if you spend too much time on this forum but as with all platforms that publicise bailiff action, you only ever get told about one side of the industry. You're not likely to get someone starting a topic on here detailing the bailiff's professionalism are you? (*queue the trolls!*)

 

Believe it or not, some people are grateful for the bailiff's mind set as the many pm's I've had would testify but unfortunately many regulars on this forum take issue with virtually everything a self confessed bailiff posts simply because they're a bailiff. I'm ok with that though, it's their perogative just as it's mine to fight my corner. I do not and never have spoken for the bailiff masses.

[Fair-Parking]

John. It's as simple as this.

 

If there was a statute covering the use of foot in the door and the use of locksmiths, somebody should be able to show us where to find it.

 

No policeman would arrest you without quoting one.

 

 

A court order is only relevant when a judge signs one allowing entry. What the rest of HMCS thinks is irrelevant. Employees of HMCS will tell you that they cannot give advice as they are not legally trained to do so.

 

Magistrates are lay people, who are advised by professionals in court. If these advisors happen to be lawyers then these lawyers could quite easily quote the statute required to back any order. That statute would then be printed on any subsequent warrant to authenticate its power.

 

Such a 'warrant' could then be shown to the householder.

 

Fortunately such a 'warrant' doesn't exist.

[louloubella73]

I haven't blamed my employers. If you read my comments above again you'll see I've specifically exonerated them from blame. I and every other bailiff who works for Marston's have been reminded time and time again what they can and can't do. Any action to the contrary is down to the bailiff concerned.

 

Where does this self pity lark come into anything I've said?

 

 

I've been lurking around here long enough to know people's reasons for disliking bailiffs. It's easy to start thinking that all bailiffs are legalised criminals if you spend too much time on this forum but as with all platforms that publicise bailiff action, you only ever get told about one side of the industry. You're not likely to get someone starting a topic on here detailing the bailiff's professionalism are you? (*queue the trolls!*)

 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

I think the issue most people take exception to is the way that you refer to certain practices (eg, the foot in the door) ie 'the fact that it s legal is a well known fact' but you are unable to back this claim up with any written legislation, which will obviously make people skeptical as whether such a law exists.. If someone were to take issue against the foot in the door approach (like I did) they don t want to HEAR 'oh that s legal'-they want PROOF it s legal-why would an intelligent person merely take someones word that it s legal.

 

 

From what I can see, you say that you act in an honourable manner within your job, and if that s true then you don t need to 'fight your corner as you put it-people aren t taking issue with you personally, but with people within your profession who don t act honourably or professionally, so if the reputation of your job has been tainted it s because of rougue colleagues, it s not because of the people speaking out against bad treatment they ve received from some bailiffs.