ME v RBS, with a vengence!

[davidhannam]

hey, does anyone know if you can ammend the claim this far down the line?

 

first of all i've had another £50 in charges since that point, and also i (stupidly) didnt claim the interest at 8%. i had a student / graduate account so didnt get charged interest on the charges, and at the point i made the claim i didnt know if i was able to claim this interest, if i myself was not charged interest.

 

if i started the process again, claiming the other £50 in charges, would i be able to also claim the interest charges for the whole amount?...its now £125....so a total of £175 is def worth claiming!

[pugsley]

funnily enough I just wrote a letter to one of my companies saying I was writing an article on consumer law, although I'm not planning to as yet, I think I would quite like to do this when I get a bit more to grips with it. It would be great to get it published on NUS online and a leaflet about student debt and unlawful charges should be available at fresher fairs next to the student barclaycard stand...lol

[pugsley]

from my civil lit book 2006/2007 legal practice guide

 

amendments with permission

 

after a party has served his statement of case he can amend it only with either

a. the written consent of all the parties; or

b.. the permission of the court

 

 

On making an application for permission to amed the statement of case, the applicant should file a copy of the statement of case with the proposed amendments along with the application notice.

 

 

If the court grants permission for the amendment, the applicant must fIle the amended statement of case and serve the order and the amended statement of case on all other parties.

 

The amended statement of case need not show the original text unless the court direct otherwise.

 

There is a bit more about directions and limitation periods , genuine mistakes etc following amendment, but I'd be typing all night ..lol

 

ISBN0-905835-88-3

[davidhannam]

thanks!...ill get drafting a letter to send to the court asking to amend my claim to add interest and extra charges....thanks again! ps i clicked on the scales to "add to your reputation"

[tomba90]

thanks!...ill get drafting a letter to send to the court asking to amend my claim to add interest and extra charges....thanks again! ps i clicked on the scales to "add to your reputation"

David,

 

post it on your thread, I may need to change something very small.:grin:

[gargoil]

Think I may also have 1 extra charge by RBOS since claim going in so woul dbe helpful for me also if you could post up the letter!!

 

Cheers,

gargoil

[pugsley]

part 17 Civil Procedure rules

CPR - Parts and Practice Directions

 

Amendments to statements of case 17.1 (1) A party may amend his statement of case at any time before it has been served on any other party.

(2) If his statement of case has been served, a party may amend it only –

(a) with the written consent of all the other parties; or

(b) with the permission of the court.

(3) If a statement of case has been served, an application to amend it by removing, adding or substituting a party must be made in accordance with rule 19.4.

 

(Part 22 requires amendments to a statement of case to be verified by a statement of truth unless the court orders otherwise)

 

Power of court to disallow amendments made without permission 17.2 (1) If a party has amended his statement of case where permission of the court was not required, the court may disallow the amendment.

(2) A party may apply to the court for an order under paragraph (1) within 14 days of service of a copy of the amended statement of case on him.

 

Amendments to statements of case with the permission of the court 17.3 (1) Where the court gives permission for a party to amend his statement of case, it may give directions as to –

(a) amendments to be made to any other statement of case; and

(b) service of any amended statement of case.

(2) The power of the court to give permission under this rule is subject to –

(a) rule 19.1 (change of parties – general);

(b) rule 19.4 (special provisions about adding or substituting parties after the end of a relevant limitation period (GL) ); and

© rule 17.4 (amendments of statement of case after the end of a relevant limitation period).

 

Amendments to statements of case after the end of a relevant limitation period 17.4 (1) This rule applies where –

(a) a party applies to amend his statement of case in one of the ways mentioned in this rule; and

(b) a period of limitation has expired under –

(i) the Limitation Act 1980(1);

(ii) the Foreign Limitation Periods Act 1984(2); or

(iii) any other enactment which allows such an amendment, or under which such an amendment is allowed.

(2) The court may allow an amendment whose effect will be to add or substitute a new claim, but only if the new claim arises out of the same facts or substantially the same facts as a claim in respect of which the party applying for permission has already claimed a remedy in the proceedings.

(3) The court may allow an amendment to correct a mistake as to the name of a party, but only where the mistake was genuine and not one which would cause reasonable doubt as to the identity of the party in question.

(4) The court may allow an amendment to alter the capacity in which a party claims if the new capacity is one which that party had when the proceedings started or has since acquired.

(Rule 19.5 specifies the circumstances in which the court may allow a new party to be added or substituted after the end of a relevant limitation period (GL) )

[davidhannam]

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

On June the 7th 2006, i entered a claim on Money Claim On-line as the following;

 

I entered a contract with the Royal Bank of Scotland in September 2001 which is conducted on their standard terms and conditions. I am claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of charges over the last 5 years. The bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

 

Due to a miscalculation I claimed £937, rather than the £947 total charges incurred. Furthermore I have incurred a further £50 in such disproportionate penalties since this date. Additionally I have further read that s.69 of the county courts act enables a sum of interest at 8% per annum to be charged upon this amount, which now totals £125.45.

 

As such at your discretion, I seek to amend my claim to incorporate the extra £60 in charges incurred in addition to the interest claimable.

 

I have enclosed all the relevant calculations.

 

I appreciate your time and help in consideration of the matter,

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[davidhannam]

hey, chees for that pugsley, must of taken you ages to type!

 

....was gonna keep it simple... reckon i should put something along the lines of, subject to 17.1 etc? or just leave it how it is?

 

.....any suggestions gratefully recieved!

[pugsley]

Ask the court whether you will incur any costs for resending out etc and balance this against the money you will receive.

[davidhannam]

Ask the court whether you will incur any costs for resending out etc and balance this against the money you will receive.

 

will, thanks again, you've been a great help!....reckon letter sounds ok tho?

[pugsley]

I believe you cannot claim costs for your mistake hence my last post, so ring the court up and ask what the likely costs are, hopefully it is minimal. + ask them if there is a form to fill in or is it just a letter? They have forms for just about everything.

 

Has noone else amended their claim on here then?

 

 

 

I would give the letter a title such as `request to Amend statement of case CPR 17.1 (1)' case number,,,,,,

[pugsley]

lol I didn't type the civil procedure rules, you press on the link at the top it will take you to all the rules, which are invaluable me thinks.

[BigCol]

I've just had a quick look at my RBS account and I've been charges another £242 since I put my MCOL in (not including int)!! I'm waiting to hear from Cobblers before I ask them for the extra or I'll start another claim.....

 

BC:smile:

[livelylad]

Go for it big col nice to see my alternative spelling of Cobbetts (cobblers) is still going strong! Following your progress with interest.

[davidhannam]

hey, well good one stacey hey!... bit miffed how i didnt get an offer, as im about a week ahead of her in the process.... may have got lost in the post???...oh well, court date it may be!... my step mums a civil judge so got loadsa books and advice (but she makes it sound so complicated!) if need it for court ....

 

ive been in contact with the court about ammending the claim, and they send you a form and its only a £35 additional charge.

 

just sent this email to our good friend lynsey....

 

 

 

 

Since I have had no response to my letter dated 16th August 2006 I presume you no longer wish to resolve the matter amicably without the courts assistance.

 

 

 

In good faith I am contacting you to inform you that I have been in communication with the court regarding the amendment of my claim.

 

 

 

On June the 7th 2006, I entered a claim on Money Claim On-line as the following;

 

I entered a contract with the Royal Bank of Scotland in September 2001 which is conducted on their standard terms and conditions. I am claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of charges over the last 5 years. The bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

 

Due to a miscalculation I claimed £937, rather than the £947 total charges incurred. Furthermore I have incurred a further £50 in such disproportionate penalties since this date. Additionally s.69 of the county courts act enables a sum of interest at 8% per annum to be charged on this amount, which now totals £126.11.

 

I have enclosed all the relevant calculations.

 

I seek to amend my claim to incorporate the extra £60 in charges incurred in addition to the interest claimable, together with the court fees of £115 (£80 initial court fee plus £35 amendment fee).

 

I appreciate your time and help in consideration of the matter, and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours sincerely,

[BigCol]

LL,

 

surprised I didn't think of it myself, it's soooo obvious, and that's what makes it soooo funny!! Brilliant, 10/10 to you!

 

I'm pretty interested in what's happening at the moment too!! The AQs should be both in with Newark CC, so Cobblers will no doubt be concocting some bollards to the Court. I'm tempted to phone Ms Burgoyne personnally and see how far that gets me "without prejudice"!!

 

Then again!!

 

BC:smile:

[davidhannam]

About me to trying to amend my claim...

 

...initially i didn’t claim the interest under s.69 of county court act as at time wasn’t sure if i was able to as i had student account with no interest payable on my o/d...also i miscalculated the charges so was short £10 and furthermore i have been charged an extra £50 since i started my proceedings.

 

so basically i wanna further include 3 things...

 

-include the interest according do s.69 of county court act

-add further £10 due to miscalculation

-add further £50 in charges since claim started

 

Does anyone know if i can amend my claim to account for all these?

 

or can i amend it only for the £10 i miscalculated...in which case its not worth the £35 charge to do so.

 

cheers

[davidhannam]

by the way to anyone interested, bankfodder sent me a pm saying can claim alll these but cant claim the £35 fee back

[davidhannam]

N244 Application Notice form

 

PART A

 

would like to ask the court permission to amend my claim xxxxxx deemed served on RBS 7/6/06.

 

because

 

-a miscalculation on penalty charges incurred

-a further £50 of such charges incurred

-i seek to include interest payable pursuant to section 69 county courts Act 1984.

 

Part B

 

I wish to rely on: tick one box

 

- the attached (witness statement)

- my statement of case

- evidence in Part C in support of my application

 

I was going to tick box C

 

Part C

 

I wish to rely on the following evidence in support of this application:

 

please refer to attached schedule of charges as well as amended particulars of claim

 

 

does that sound ok?

[teall]

Hi David, Can I ask if you concluded that RBS maintaince charges for going over the agreed over draft limit were claimable?I've got to the LBA stage claiming penalty charges and maintaince charges. Thanks

[livelylad]

yes but only if a "charge" put you over, then you can claim the interest back.

[davidhannam]

Q. I have been charged (£20, £25, £35 etc...) by my bank/credit card company for going over my agreed overdraft limit. This was entirely my own fault. Do I still have grounds to start legal proceedings against them for recovery?

 

A. The law is very clear on this. If you have been penalised for a breach of contract by means of disproportionate penalties, regardless of how the breach came about, then you may have grounds to recover your money

[davidhannam]

as i just posted in bluerubys thread....maybe should write a letter to press / media from a whole bunch of us.... with the recent thing in press about the OFT now switching from focus on credit cards to now looking at these F**king ridiculous bank charges....reckon theyd be interested....

[BigCol]

DH,

 

just caught up with your thread, the N244 route sounds interesting, I may read up on it on the website, I believe that I have been charged >£300 since I went down the MCOL route. I was going to speak to Ms Burgoyne about this but maybe the N244 route would be better...

 

BC:p