So scared and don't knowwhat to do next. Robinson way have issued a CC claim against me

[pt2537]

Hi Amber,

 

I will have a look over the thread tomorrow as i have nothing going on tomorrow, if i dont come back to you tomorrow then send me a PM and i will look in

 

i have a great deal going on so it is likely that i could get distracted:)

[amber2508]

Hi Amber,

 

I will have a look over the thread tomorrow as i have nothing going on tomorrow, if i dont come back to you tomorrow then send me a PM and i will look in

 

i have a great deal going on so it is likely that i could get distracted:)

 

Awww thank you for that Pt. Thank you to all of you who have helped me so far, i really appreciate it. Your all so kind and caring.

 

I realise i can't expect to have all the work done for me and i would honestly never expect that. I know i have to do the reading up and self help myself. However it's just that i don't understand what to do or where to start. I can't explain what i mean, i'm just totally at a loss at where and what to read up on because theres so much stuff, it's all so overwhelming. It really is like another language to me this law type stuff.

[pt2537]

Right, first things amber, you need to acknowledge service, you can do this online as there should be a password supplied on the front of the claim form along with a webaddress.

 

personally with such a vague POC , i would defend all of the claim,they have to prove a right A) that they have sufficient standing in the matter to issue the claim and B) that the debt is legally enforceable

 

It is important that you acknowledge service so as not to allow them the option to get Default Judgment

 

I would even suggest given the poor drafting on display, that you write to these monkeys and ask them to file an amended set of particulars of claim within 7 days or you make an application to have the case struck out as an abuse of the court process

 

but lets get the AOS and defence as it stands out of the way first

[tendogs]

Morning Amber,

 

Most of us have been in the same position regarding the impenetrable language; I for one still am to a very great extent. There’s a term for it (there had to be didn’t there?) they’re known as gnoseological structures (yes I know! :eek:The G is silent by the way ). It’s the kind of word structures that develop in and around a specialist activity like medicine, engineering, plumbing, car mechanics, law etc. The theory is that it acts as a short-hand allowing one specialist in a particular field to communicate with another specialist and put a lot of meaning into a very few words. Another theory is that the language is designed to exclude non specialists so that specialists can charge huge amounts of money to interpret the language for outsiders. I know which theory I support.

 

We’re lucky in that we have people belonging to this forum who understand what’s going on, can speak the language of this kind of law, and you have some of them subscribed to your thread and they will help you find your way through this. I’ll re-iterate what has already been said, you need to acknowledge the CCJ and you can do this on line, this will give you more time to develop a defence (you will receive help for that). I understand your confusion about defending the whole amount, as far as I understand it you’re not denying that the debt exists but you are saying that it might not be enforceable under the rules of the consumer credit act.

 

You don’t have to prove anything, the people who have brought the case have to prove that they have an enforceable debt and you are going to ask them to prove it by making them produce the documents that should be in their position in a legible form demonstrating that the debt is enforceable. There are various ways you can do that and others, more experienced than I, will point you in the most appropriate direction. The way the documents are laid out, the order in which they are given to you and how they are given to you, are governed by quite strict rules and it is flabbergasting how often these rules are broken. For example there are rules that govern how Particulars of Claim (POC) are presented on the form you received from Northampton and they seem to have made a mess of that.

 

This is not about deliberately trying to avoid debt; the people who have taken this action against you do not care about you, or the people who love you, and they will not hesitate to use the law to take every penny that they can squeeze out of you. All you are doing is using the law to protect yourself because you found yourself in a position over which you have no control.

 

We’ll all keep an eye on what’s going on on your thread so if you need help just shout.

 

Best wishes,

 

Dogs

[amber2508]

Thanks again for all the support.

 

Right i have had another look at the form, i find myself staring blankly at it (in a erm right ok, what does all this mean kinda way). Anyway i will do a counterclaim as recommended. There are a few points i'm not sure on.

 

When i acknowledge do i just say "yes i acknowledge" or is there a letter i need to write with it?

 

Will i now have to fill in the counterclaim bit or am i just acknowledging at this point?

 

Is counterclaiming the same as defending the claim?

 

If i am doing the counterclaim what am i counterclaiming? You see i can't even say it's because they have no right to collect this debt (due to not sending me a contract), because i havn't even asked them to send me one yet. Do you get where i'm coming from?

 

Should i now send a cca request asking for one?

 

Do i have to pay them to counterclaim and if so how much is it?

 

I don't have a County court where i live but there is a Magistrates court so will they hear my case there instead if i asked for it to be moved from Northampton to closer to me?

 

Sorry for so many questions. I'm trying to read around for help also, to see if theres someone with a similar case.

Hope the above makes sense.

 

Thank you.

[puzz1ed1]

just the acknowledgement for now...

[tendogs]

Good afternoon Amber,

You can acknowledge on line. If you look at the document from Northampton about half way down on the right hand side you will see a password. Log on to Money Claim on Line at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk enter the password and it is fairly intuitive as to how you acknowledge.

Do that first and then we can look at what you need to do next. Let us know when you’ve done the acknowledgement.

Dogs

[creditcardmug]

Also suggest defend all of the claim as pt recommended

[tendogs]

Thanks CCM it’s good to know someone is there.

 

Amber once you have acknowledged then you need to find out what documentation they have so that you can check it out and work on your defence.

 

There are three ways that you can do this, the first is to require them to send you a true copy of the executed credit agreement using the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) this will cost you £1.00, secondly you can issue a Subject Access Request S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) using the Data Protection Act that will cost you ten quid and thirdly you can require them to disclose all the documents that they will be relying on in court to support their case and you do this using part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) this cost you nothing.

 

That’s why people who post on the forum ask you if you’ve CCAed, SARed or CPRed someone. My preference is for the last option though you can do all three if you wish. If they respond you can work out a defence, if they don’t that, in and of itself, is a defence.

 

I’ll try and post up the various links to the form letters later unless someone else wants to do it. Off to feed the chickens. Best wishes,

 

Dogs.

[questioning]

you need to find out what documentation they have so that you can check it out and work on your defence.

 

There are three ways that you can do this, the first is to require them to send you a true copy of the executed credit agreement using the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) this will cost you £1.00, secondly you can issue a Subject Access Request S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) using the Data Protection Act that will cost you ten quid and thirdly you can require them to disclose all the documents that they will be relying on in court to support their case and you do this using part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) this cost you nothing.

 

That’s why people who post on the forum ask you if you’ve CCAed, SARed or CPRed someone. My preference is for the last option though you can do all three if you wish. If they respond you can work out a defence, if they don’t that, in and of itself, is a defence.

 

I’ll try and post up the various links to the form letters later unless someone else wants to do it. Off to feed the chickens. Best wishes,

 

Dogs.

HI Amber, I don't wan t to confuse but

CPR 18 requset does not apply to the small claims court, So they do not have to reply. How ever I would still send it as you may get a partial reply.

I would definately send the CCA request along with a postal order of £1.00 and don't sign the letters just print your sig.

If you send both the CPR 18 and the CCA you have covered yourself as they have to reply to the CCA they DO NOT have to reply to your CPR18 request as i stated earlier. Do send it though.

Make sure you send the CCA by special next day G Del. I would send CPR by G.Del too but if money is tight REC. would do.

Edited August 30, 2008 by questioning

[creditcardmug]

Amber, here is the CPR18 request letter, i will post up the CCA request next,

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[creditcardmug]

Here the CCA request letter,

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

 

 

Re: Account no: xxxxxxxx

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

If you do not understand this letter, you should seek professional advice.

[creditcardmug]

Just to recap, if you dont acknowledge in time there no point in sending these as they will obtain judgement against you.

[tendogs]

Thanks questioning, just looked at Amber's first post and it's £1150.00 not the £11500.00 I thought it was. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Dogs

[questioning]

Thanks questioning, just looked at Amber's first post and it's £1150.00 not the £11500.00 I thought it was. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Dogs

easy mistake, As I said, Its still worth sending CPR18 as there may be a partial responce or full for that matter but I doubt it. As a LIT I don't see the harm, just wanted to make sure she sent the CCA as a seperate measure, that they can't refuse.

[creditcardmug]

Amber get back to me at some point this weekend if you want to get going on this, i can help you to kick things off if thats what you want to do.

[amber2508]

Thank you all again for the replies, they're so helpful. It's starting to make a bit of sense to me now.

 

I have now acknowdeged the claim online. I feel a bit stupid tbh because it was so straight forward and simple. I was expecting to have to write a defence with it, that's why i had been putting it off. I just hope it's in, in time. Form says 15th Aug, so that's 14 + 5 day. So i work that out as Tuesday 2nd Sept being the final day. I'm assuming they don't count Saturday & Sunday so it will be accepted on Monday, so 1 day to spare hopefully. Phew!

 

You know that cpr 18 letter? Is it going to be ok to be saying you 'must' furnish me with these items, if they don't have to due to my claim being only 1kish an small claims?

[creditcardmug]

Ok amber, have you acknowledged defending all of the claim, and did you print out the receipt when prompted?

[amber2508]

Ok amber, have you acknowledged defending all of the claim, and did you print out the receipt when prompted?

 

Yes done all that.

[tendogs]

Well done Amber, you've made a start. CCM will take you through the rest.

 

Dogs

[creditcardmug]

Ok, that's fine , now you need to send the letter in post 36 to the claimant as shown at the top of the claim form, send it by special delivery.

 

Thats it for now this gives you a further 14 days to submit your defence i.e. 33 days from the date on the claim form.

 

Do not sign it, just print your name.

 

Im not sure how much you know about computers, but you need to copy and paste the letter into a word document, and edit it with the dates etc.

 

Keep everything to do with this in a cardboard folder or something including reciepts for postage, you will need all this later.

 

Come back here if you have ANY concerns over all this.

Regards CCM.

[amber2508]

Ok i'm just going to print the cca and cpr 18 requests off and send them to Robinson way.

 

1 question about the cca request.

 

(this bit)

'I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT'

 

How can i claim the above if i have been paying them for the past 2 or so years. I thought the fact i am paying them means i acknowledge the debt and the company claiming it?

[creditcardmug]

Hi amber, the main thing is to send the CPR request to the claimant as named on the claim form ,you can send the CCA request as well but this is a secondary issue at this stage, but you may as well do it, send it to the original creditor along with the £ 1 P.O. if you do it.

 

The fact that you have been paying them has nothing to do with the fact that you are contesting the validity of thier claim, if the agreement is not enforcable then your payments thus far are irrelevant

 

Hope this helps.come back with anything else.

[amber2508]

Ok thanks i'll get on with all that..

 

I'll stop mithering you for a bit now, hehe.

[questioning]

Hi amber, the main thing is to send the CPR request to the claimant as named on the claim form ,you can send the CCA request as well but this is a secondary issue at this stage, but you may as well do it, send it to the original creditor along with the £ 1 P.O. if you do it.

 

 

I disagree slightly here CCM

The crucial thing here is to get the CCA sent off, as this cannot be ignored.

The CPR18 request should also be sent but as this is a small claim it can be ignored by the claiment, they DO NOT have to provide you with a thing.

In my post this is why I said make sure you send both, CPR18 & CCA request that way you can cover all bases.

The results of both these requests can then be used in , a holding defence, which is probably what this will be.

 

 

Amber pleases make sure you send both CPR18 and CCA request. Send then on monday if possible.