Halifax sent me an unsigned copy of "an" agreement

[Ypnos]

Hi all

 

I recently requested from the Halifax a copy of my credit agreement with them (credit card) about 2 months ago. last week they finally sent me a response. In it, they enclosed a standard credit agreement which was just a print out, with no signatures from anyone.

 

They also enclosed a letter stating that this is all they are required to provide under Section 78 of the CCA.

 

I know this is not true and that they need to provide a true signed (by both parties) copy of the agreement. In the meantime, they are still demanding payments from me even though, under Section 78 the debt is unenforcible.

 

Can anyone please give me some direction on how I should proceed from here?

 

Thank you in advance.

[Curlyben]

Try this one.

Should get up their noses.

 

Dear xxxxxxxxx

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

 

I have this morning **Date** received a copy application form from you.

 

My original Statutory Request to **Bank**, made on **Date** was for a copy of my credit agreement conforming to Section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

**Bank** had a statutory time limit in which to reply with the requested information; that limit expired on **Date** at which point **Bank** entered into Default under Section 78 (6)(a) of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

A further statutory time limit expired on **Date** at which point **Bank** failed to comply with Section 78 (1) and thus committed a criminal offence under Section 78 (6)(b) of the Act.

 

The document I have now received (X days after the second time limit expired) does not comply with the Consumer Credit Act requirements for a Properly Executed Agreement. The Section 78 default alone would render the agreement unenforceable and the incorrect documentation merely confirms the fact.

 

I therefore do not acknowledge any debt to **Bank** and do not consider that I have any obligation to make payments to you.

 

I now consider the matter closed.

 

Your faithfully

[Multay]

Hi,

 

I think the Crminal Offense part was removed under the 2008 revisions - I've been told this now by a few people...May be one to check?

[Curlyben]

Yes it was repealed with CCA2006, but bear in mind that's a direct quote from '74 regs and is designed to ram the point home. If they want to argue the toss over the differences then let them.

In all honesty it was never used anyway, so was quite pointless.

[Ypnos]

So I don't owe them any money...? Surely they will take this to court?

[Curlyben]

I didn't say that at all.

They have failed to comply with your CCA request and until such time as they do the debt is in default.

They shouldn't take any further action until such time as they comply with your request.

[Ypnos]

Ah, ok. Thank you very much for your help! Massive weight is lifted!

[Guest dvdriley]

I took out a Mint credit card in 2003. I requested a copy CC which I received. I beleive the agreement is unenforceable. On the credit agreement they sent it states my credit limit as £4500.00. However on the seperate terms and conditions , unsigned, it shows credit limit as £9400.00. These cannot be the terms and conditions sent with the agreement from 2003. Also they are on a seperate piece of paper, not the reverse of the agreeement. The agreement is not signed my them and it only shows interest rate, the rest is data protection stuff. Also the apr is idfferent to the agreement.

 

Also they applied the £1.00 to my account? Whrer do i go now?

[Guest dvdriley]

took out a Mint credit card in 2003. I requested a copy CC which I received. I beleive the agreement is unenforceable. On the credit agreement they sent it states my credit limit as £4500.00. However on the seperate terms and conditions , unsigned, it shows credit limit as £9400.00. These cannot be the terms and conditions sent with the agreement from 2003. Also they are on a seperate piece of paper, not the reverse of the agreeement. The agreement is not signed my them and it only shows interest rate, the rest is data protection stuff. Also the apr is idfferent to the agreement.

 

Also they applied the £1.00 to my account? Whrer do i go now?

[Guest forgottenone]

Well, firstly ... you will need to start your own thread, as it will be considered bad form using someone elses thread. Oh, and it means it will confuse issues for the OP as well. Then, so that others here can see whether it's enforceable or not you will need to scan the document, then post it on CAG.

 

Edited July 28, 2008 by forgottenone

[Guest dvdriley]

Sorry for hijacking. I am new here. How do I post a new thread

[Ypnos]

Sorry for hijacking. I am new here. How do I post a new thread

 

Go to "General Debt Issues" and click on "New Thread" at the bottom

[Guest forgottenone]

By clicking on 'NEW THREAD' at the top of this or any of the other forum pages.

 

Or, even, the bottom! Always on top in my browser.

[Ypnos]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other

[Ypnos]

The Halifax have not acknowledged my letter to them and they are still sending me statements and charging me late fees. According to Royal Mail, my letter was delivered on time...

 

What should I do?

[Multay]

Nothing at all...Just save your payments up if you can - I have just incase.....

They obviously are ignoring your letter that states the account is in dispute..So in dispute it stays until they send you an enforceable agreement...

 

However, it will probably get sold to a DCA at some point so just let us know when that happens and we can give you a couple of letters to send to them too...

 

But other than that, the onus is on them to respond and until they do you can't do anything - Enjoy the silence my friend...

 

M

[Ypnos]

Many thanks!

[Ypnos]

Hi

Got an update on this

 

 

I've had a reply from Halifax. They have apparently investigated the issues I have raised and they do _not_ accept my following "claims":

That their automated phone system broke any regulations

That calling me every hour from 8am to 9pm is harassment

That the unsigned copy of the credit agreement does not comply with the relevant

They have also enclosed another copy of another unsigned credit agreement plus all statements since I took out this card in 2004.

[Ypnos]

What do you guys think I should do with this? They don't seem to be backing down...

[Curlyben]

Time for Trading Standards on this one then.

Include the phone harassment as well as they non-compliant documentation.

[Ypnos]

I have received further correspondence.

 

1 letter saying that I am in arrears. Then 1 letter saying they're taking me to court and then 1 letter basically repeating what their last letter (which I posted about on 11 Dec 2008 in this thread).

 

They have still not provided a signed copy of an agreement, but they have enclosed copies of my credit card statements.

 

Where do I stand with this? Do I have a snowball's chance in court?

 

The phone calls have stopped, so I'm not too bothered about that - I'm just worried about the court. I don't mind going if I know I can win. Is it time for me to find a solicitor?

[kirklanw]

If they dont have a signed agreement they won't go to court as there is no possible way then can win.

[Ypnos]

So how should I respond? They have rejected every single one of my complaints and are threatening legal action.

[godpikachu]

this should do the trick:-

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

 

On (date) i wrote to you making a request inder the consumer credit act 1974, this request was for you to provide me with a signed true copy of my credit agreement with (name of company).

As you should be aware, when such a request is made, you have 12+2 days in which to respond by providing the document, your deadline for doing this ran out on (date), and, as you have not provided me with the document i requested, i now place this matter into a state of default.

 

You should note that while this matter is in default...

 

You are not allowed to request payment from me, nor am i obliged to make any offer of payment.

You may not add charges or interest to the account for any reason.

You may not attempt to instigate legal action against me.

You may not pass or sell this matter on to another agency.

 

Any attempts by yourselves to pursue any kind of legal action, as described by yourselves in your letter dated (date), will be considered both unlawful and vexatious, and will result in a counter claim being made against you for harassment.

 

Also, having taken legal advice, you should note that until you can provide me with a valid credit agreement, any pursuit of this matter by yourselves is in violation of the administration of justice act 1970 (section 40), and thus is punishable under law.

 

From the date of this letter, any furthur correspondance or attempted contact from yourselves, in whatever form, with regards to this matter is refused until such time as you can provide me with the requested documentation as proof of your right to collect on this alledged debt.

 

 

Goodbye

(print name dont sign)

 

print off, send to them by recorded delivery, they cant do a damn thing, especially take court action against you, as all that would happen would be the judge would ask them to provide a valid CCA, which they wont be able to do, then the claim would be thrown out of court, youd be awarded costs and theyd look very silly.

[Ragtaggeorge]

Post up the agreement they sent you. They only have to send you a 'true' copy of the original agreement and the regulations specifically allow removal of any signatures or other security info. What they have to do is produce in court an identical copy with signatures. Wee need to see the agreement to see if it fails as an agreement on its content with or without signatures.