Help Please Re: CCJ From Northampton CCBC - ***DISCONTINUED***

[AndyOrch]

Hi Mrs Z

 

Dont do anything untill ,if you recieve an AQ.Incasso wont contact the Court with regards to your requests they only act as a go between until said AQs are issued

 

I trust the above helps

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[Misterzeus]

Thanks Andy, you are a little treasure

 

I have been panicking in case the court sent an AQ and we've not recieved it - given RM's record for non delivery!

 

Sorry for being a pain!!!

[Misterzeus]

Good morning all, Mrs Z here.

 

Mr Z has just phoned Northampton CCBC re our Co-op (Smile) CCJ.

 

The person at the court said that the case went into “stay” on the 26th August, but the claimant has indicated that they intend to pursue this further.

 

Mr Z asked what will happen now, to which they replied, the claimant will need to apply to the court to have the stay lifted, and it will then be transferred to our local court.

 

Mr Z was also informed that he would be notified by the court of this in writing, if or when it happens.

 

We feel that in a sense, we are still in “limbo” as to the direction this case will go.

 

Has anyone else gone through this rigmarole? If so, would you care to comment please?

 

Also, is there anything we can do, apart from wait and see if the Co-op follows through and reactivates the case?

 

Any advice, comments etc. much appreciated.

 

Thank you, Mrs Z:)

[citizenB]

Hi

 

Do nothing now not until you recieve an AQ which I doubt very much,the claim will remain stayed until such time the claimant wishes to revive the claim.The longer they leave it the better for yourselves.The claimant will have to pay and give very valid reason to revive said claim.

So in answer do nothing excersise patience and then apply for a strike out.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

 

 

The above was an earlier post by Andy. So I think it probably still applies. Yes, agreed it is frustrating that you are in a kind of limbo, however until they apply to have the stay lifted there is probably very little you can do.

 

They have provided you with an unenforceable application form and they have quite possibly realised there is nowhere for them to go from here on.

[Misterzeus]

Thanks citizenB

 

This is the part of Andy's reply that made us wonder when we should actually apply for a strike out. Having said that, it costs the defendant to have a claim struck out doesn't it?

 

So in answer do nothing excersise patience and then apply for a strike out.

 

How long should we wait?? I know I'm being impatient, I can't help but worry about it

 

Mrs Z

[AndyOrch]

Hi Mrs Z

 

My ears are burning;)

 

Stays can remain in place months even up to a year.The Claimant can revive said claim at any time,with good cause for the delay and at a price.Every case varies and every stay varies in reason.I would only recommend Strike out given that your case is a dead cert in success,say 3 months.This will cost you vis a vis AN £75.00 but would be recoverable on wasted costs.

 

I trust the above clarifies your concerns

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Misterzeus]

Thank you very much for your patience Andy - much appreciated.

 

Your post has made me feel much better! I will try to exercise a little patience myself now

 

Thanks again, Mrs Z

[Misterzeus]

Good afternoon all, Mrs Z here.

 

We have just got back from a trip to visit our son who lives overseas. An N150 AQ has been sent from Northampton CC with a letter saying that the application to lift the "stay" has been granted. This was dated 30th October but the actual postage stamp is dated the 3rd November, sooo annoying! We went away on the 4th November. Anyway, the AQ has to be filled in and arrive at the court by Monday 17th November.

 

Incasso has sent a bundle of paperwork, the alleged properly executed CCA is the same as the first one sent except where the red boxes appear on the image and the 2nd page (2nd image) wasn’t received last time.

 

In a bit of a panic here, Mr Z needs to get the AQ filled in and at our local court tomorrow.

 

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/Co-op1done.jpg

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/Co-op2done.jpg

 

Any opinions etc would be much appreciated, thanks.

 

Mrs Z

[citizenB]

Hi Mrs Z, pleased to hear you had a good holiday.. you could have done with a few days grace on this lot though. I have copied over everything I believe will be required for somone to help you complete the Allocation questionairre.

 

THIS WAS THE EARLY DEFENCE PROVIDED BY ALOYSIUSH

 

 

 

A defence should be deal with the claimants pleading and not be complicated and long in these matters. It should not contain references to cases etc. Do not forget you may have to argue that which is contained in your defence and so you need to understand that to which you are endorsing a statement of truth. The case of Dimond v lovell is not on all fours with this case. Until the claimant pleads in an appropriate manner, you should not reveal all your 'cards'. I suggest a defence as follows:-

 

1. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleadindg in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system).

 

2. Further to that above the defendant is unable to plead effectivley or at all. The defendant is embarassed.

 

The above is all you need to place in the defence.

 

You should write to the claimants solicitors as follows:-

 

' Herewith copy defence by way of service, the same having been filed with the court.

 

Please serve amended particulars of claim and plead yor clients case in an appropriate manner within 7 days, so that I am aware of the case I will have to meet at trial. I request that you attach to the particulars a copy of the agreement upon which the claimant relies. The matter will be transferred to my home court and the claimant will have to produce the document, in any event. In those circumstances you should plead in accordance with the CPR rather than the Northampton County Court regime.

 

Failure to provide that requested in the time period provided for will result in application to the court. I confirm a copy of this letter will be produced to the court when the question of costs falls to be decided'.

 

I hope this helps and is understood. I did not want to appear 'complicated' and apologise.

 

I have been reprimanded by persons for not explaining the 'full story' behind my suggestions. Some of those persons are suggesting you rely upon precedents to help in your case. I doubt you have read those precedents or the persons suggesting the same have done so. If they have they have not understood the same (now thats complicated). There is very little effective meaningful precedent in theses matters and you need to rely upon the CCA 1974. There is plenty of decent advice on this site, the difficulty is sorting the wood for the trees.

 

 

So, this for the defence

 

 

 

 

IN THE XXXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

 

 

CLAIM NUMBER XXXXXXXX

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

 

Co-operative Bank plc

 

Claimant

 

And

 

 

Mr Zeus

Defendant

 

 

 

 

DEFENCE

 

 

1. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleadindg in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system).

 

2. Further to that above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarassed.

 

 

 

 

and this for the solicitors... along with a copy of the defence..

 

 

 

 

' Herewith copy defence by way of service, the same having been filed with the court.

 

 

Please serve amended particulars of claim and plead your client's case in an appropriate manner within 7 days, so that I am aware of the case I will have to meet at trial. I request that you attach to the particulars a copy of the agreement upon which the claimant relies. The matter will be transferred to my home court and the claimant will have to produce the document, in any event. In those circumstances you should plead in accordance with the CPR rather than the Northampton County Court regime.

 

Failure to provide that requested in the time period provided for will result in application to the court. I confirm a copy of this letter will be produced to the court when the question of costs falls to be decided'.

 

 

 

 

 

I can see this is going to be a lot easier for Mr Z. Presumably this could be filed online ? Just sending a copy of the defence and the letter to the solicitors via Special delivery ?

 

I can't believe this, I missed it, must have had my eyes shut!!!!

 

This is a copy of the CCA they sent, apologies for the quality but that's how it arrived! There was nothing on the reverse. It looks like it was copied on to an A4 sheet of paper.

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/CCASCAN.jpg

 

Any thoughts please

 

Thanks in advance

 

Mr & Mrs Z

[citizenB]

 

I am so annoyed with myself; I was going to CCA them back along but never got around to it.

 

Anyway, I believe there maybe charges on the account that I dispute so where do I go from here?

 

I have scanned the court paper work (probably unnecessary to scan every page, but wasn’t sure) and the default letter plus the last letter I received from the Co-op if someone would take a look at please.

 

I have been paying a token payment of £1 every month (since January) as that is all I can afford, unemployed at present and my income consists of a war pension and small army pension at just over £700 a month in total.

 

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coop01default.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coop01ltr.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coopccj1.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coopccj2.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coopccj3.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coopccj4.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coopccj5.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coopccj6.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/coopccj7.jpg

 

 

In reply to your questions:

 

 

The dates on the default notice are Dated - 6th February and to remedy by 20th February, Yes?? Yes, no time allowed for delivery time

 

As they havent made it clear on the POC which account they are claiming for..

 

The account number on the letter (2nd image) it was the number for the credit card and not the loan ? Credit Card

 

The amount claimed for on the POC is definitely the amount for the credit card and not the loan ? Definitely the Credit Card

 

Also, have you got a link to a copy of what they sent you in response to your CCA please No CCA applied for, but ... did you mean the reply to Mr Z's CPR request from Incasso? Link below for that letter, luckily Mr Z sorted all that out, I have yet to learn how to do all that, I have just had to copy and paste the link!

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/incasso2.jpg

 

30. It is neither admitted or denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant (I THINK YOU NEED TO CONFIRM WHETHER THIS BIT SHOULD BE AMENDED - YOU DID RECEIVE ONE BUT IT DOESNT APPEAR TO BE CORRECT)

 

 

As far as we can see, there are no charges added to the default notice and it seems to have all the expected information as required by law. The reason I left it in is because of the first sentence, I forgot to ask about it in my last post!

 

We are still concerned about the “applying for the CCA part” as obviously Mr Z didn’t send off a CCA request. Having said that, wouldn’t that come under the CPR part 18 request? So, should I leave it in or disregard that completely?

 

 

Mrs Z, I think I have brought forward all the information that will be required.. It might be worth pm'ing andyorch to help you further.

[Misterzeus]

Thanks citizenB

 

I tried to pm andyorch but it came back as either Andy can't or won't receive pm's.

 

Andy, if you're around I would appreciate some of your invaluable advice please, thank you in anticipation!

 

Mrs Z

[AndyOrch]

You called Mrs Z Thanks CB well organised as ever;)

 

 

Andy

[citizenB]

hi andy, hope you are well

 

 

post 133.. Incasso paid to have the stay lifted.. the allocation thingy arrived whilst they were on holiday, so Mr Z has to get it completed and filed by tomorrow.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Mrs Z

 

Ok heres an example on how to complete the N150 AQ I have altered it slightly to suit your case but just post if you are unsure of anything

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

 

 

ALLOCATION QUESTIONNAIRE

 

Have you sent a copy of this completed form to the other party Yes (But dont sign it)

 

A. SETTLEMENT

 

For All

 

1. Given that the rules require you to try to settle the claim before the hearing, do you want to attempt to settle at this stage?

 

yes

 

Reasons:

 

B. LOCATON OF TRIAL

 

Is there any reason why your claim needs to be heard at a particular court? NO

 

C. PRE-ACTION PROTOCOLS

 

You are expected to comply with the relevant pre-action protocol.

 

Have you done so? No

 

If No, explain why?

 

This case is not covered by any approved protocol; I have tried to act reasonably in exchanging information and documents relevant to the claim.

 

 

 

D. CASE MANAGEMENT INFORMATION

 

What amount of the claim is in dispute? £ enter total amount on summons

 

Applications

Have you made any application(s) in this claim? NO

 

Witnesses

 

Mr Z All the facts in the case

Mrs Z All the facts in the case

 

ExpertsNo

 

TrackFast Track

 

If you have indicated a track which would not be the normal track for the claim, please give a brief reason for your choice:

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the Fast Track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer.

 

 

E TRIAL OR FINAL HEARING

 

How long do you estimate the trial or final hearing will take? 4 Hours

 

Are there any days when you, an expert or an essential witness will not be able to attend court for the trial or hearing? YES/No

 

Insert dates if any applicable

 

F PROPOSED DIRECTIONS

 

Have you attached a list of the directions you think appropriate for the management of the claim? Yes

 

If Yes, have they been agreed with the other party? NO

 

G COSTS

 

Leave blank

 

H Fee (not applicable to the Defendent)

 

I OTHER INFORMATION

 

Have you attached documents to this questionnaire? YES CPR/CCA requests

 

Have you sent these documents to the other partyYES

 

If Yes, when did they receive them? After Posting

Mrs Z this part is optional and a decision for you and yours to make

 

 

Do you intend to make any applications in the immediate future?YES

 

If Yes, what for?

 

An order seeking the Claimants compliance with information previously requested.

 

In the space below, set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage the claim.

 

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the Fast Track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer.

 

Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further.

 

 

DRAFT ORDER FOR DIRECTIONS

 

 

 

In the ************* County Court

Claim number **********

 

 

Between

 

 

************* - Claimant

 

 

 

 

and

 

 

xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• Complient copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon.
  
• Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,
  
• Document, contract or deed of assignment (only if applicable)
  
• Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.
  
• Copies of any statement or other document relied upon
  

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

• An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant.
  

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order

[Misterzeus]

Andy, what can I say!! You’ve been absolutely brilliant, thank you so much

 

Just to clarify:

 

 

• Do I have to be a witness?? The thought scares the life out of me.
  
• Facts of the case – I take it that this means the unenforceable CCA and any excess charges?
  

 

Forever in your debt

 

Mrs Z

 

 

CitizenB – thank you again so much for your help too

[AndyOrch]

Andy, what can I say!! You’ve been absolutely brilliant, thank you so much

 

Just to clarify:

 

 

• Do I have to be a witness?? The thought scares the life out of me.
  
• Facts of the case – I take it that this means the unenforceable CCA and any excess charges? Correct
  

Forever in your debt

 

Mrs Z

 

Morning Mrs Z

The fact that you are witness is only a term for the AQ and should the case proceed (The Witness is whos name the alleged debt is ie yours or joint if singular then just Mr Z/or Mrs Z)

At point A settlement you may wish to change that also but does goes in your favour if you appear to be amicable for argument sake if you state no you then have to reason your answer ie why you are not prepared to settle because a) the unenforcable agreement the DJ may not agree with you and the penalty charges.I would advocate holding that up your sleeve for a later stage or in the event of submitting a Counter Claim

 

CitizenB – thank you again so much for your help too

 

 

I trust the above clarifies your concerns

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Mrs Z you may also consider this for the Other section

 

 

In respect of that which is denied, during the period in which the Account was operating the claimant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Defendant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The defendant understands that the claimant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant. The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the claimant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the claimant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the defendant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Claimant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit

The contractual provision that permits the Claimant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law.

Accordingly I put the Claimant to strict proof that every charge and collection charge made to the account was valid and lawful. I aver that any default notice sent if recieved would have included these charges.

 

Hope it helps

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Misterzeus]

Another question, sorry!

 

As there is a lot of text to write in the appropriate boxes, can we either type and print out the N150 AQ online or failing that, put see attached marker in the box?

 

Thank you, Mrs Z

[Misterzeus]

Apologies Andy, didn't see your latest posts, thanks again. I will read them now and post if I'm not sure of anything!

 

Mrs Z

[AndyOrch]

Hi you can go to the website and download and type up on screen then just run as many copies as needed.Ill check for the website for you

 

Try this one The requested resource (/HMCSCourtFinder/tiles/Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance) is not available

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited November 14, 2008 by Andyorch

[Misterzeus]

Thanks so much once again Andy, you really are a little treasure!

 

Mrs Z

[Misterzeus]

Hi all, Mrs Z here

 

Just to say it has all been done, Mr Z hand delivered the AQ /supporting documents to our local court and posted off a copy to Incasso by recorded delivery.

 

Once again a big, big thank you to Andy and CitizenB, without their help it could not have been done!

 

Mr Z and I are really, really grateful

[infamousaudi]

Hi could anyone pass some of this knowledge over to my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159355-grrrr-northampton-ccbc.html

[Misterzeus]

Good afternoon all, Mrs Z here.

 

Well, after Incasso receiving a copy of Mr Z’s AQ yesterday (I checked on RM website), he has had a reply from Cobbetts Solicitors today! They certainly didn’t waste any time in replying!

 

They enclosed a “Notice of change of Solicitor” for Mr Z’s records and a copy of the Claimants AQ.

 

Under “Other Information” they have stated:

 

We respectfully request that the Defendant’s Defence be struck out pursuant to CPR 3.4 (2) (a) on the grounds that the same discloses no reasonable grounds for defending the Claim and that the Defence be dismissed accordingly pursuant to CPR 24.2 (a) (ii) and (b) as the Defendant has no real prospect of defending the claim and there is no other compelling reason why the case should be disposed of at trial.

 

 

Under A Settlement

 

They’ve ticked “no” in all the boxes and given the reason:

 

Given the contents of Section 1 of this document, the Claimant does not feel it is appropriate to undertake negotiations at this stage.

 

I will be honest and say that Mr Z left out the extra information concerning excess charges that Andy kindly provided as he realised that the charges weren’t as bad as he had first thought.

 

Locking the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind now! But alas, it’s too late for that!

 

I am of the impression that they are confident that the CCA is enforceable or the fact that they actually do hold a fully executed “agreement” and not the application forms sent to Mr Z both times?

 

Any help very much appreciated, thanks

 

A very depressed Mrs Z

[citizenB]

You have requested a copy of the original agreement by CCA, S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and CPR. If they DO have one then you must ask for time to study the document and you also want to know why they havent provided it before. Your A&Q also has directions provided by Andy in that they provide you with a copy so a judge might not be impressed .. IF they arrive at court with a copy having refused you sight of it previously.

 

The Default notice is also a clincher... so dont panic.

 

I am sure Andy will also be advising you the same thing. I reckon this could just be standard Cobbetts' procedure / tactics .