A & L - Enforcable Agreement???

[cashins]

"For the avoidence of any further misunderstanding on your part relating to the enforceability of this contract,we strongly reccommend you seek legal advice if you intend to rely on the alledged non-production of documentation pertaining to your liability to our client as your current understanding of the consumer credit act is inaccurate.

 

 

A standard line, from their 'big box of standard letters'

 

Correct in that non-prodution of an agreement under Sec 77/78 does not prevent court action.

 

Utter bullsh*t designed to scare, if they are trying to say they don't need to produce it in court.

 

David

[citizenB]

Hi Multay, Pleased to hear you are settling down in your new home and job.

[babybear39]

Hiya Multay

 

Glad to hear your new job and home are good and that things are going well for you.

[Multay]

Thanks everyone...

 

Cashins,

 

That's what I thought - They are correct that A&L have supplied the documents required. However, they are unenforceable and I don't belive for one minute they have the original.

I just wanted to clarify that they do have to produce either the original document or a certified copy?

Even if they do, is missing most of the prescribed terms.

And I never got a NOA from A&L when they flogged it to Equidebt.

Do you think it's worth CCA'ing collect direct just to shut them up?

 

Cheers,

 

M

[The GodMother]

I would say CCA them to shut them up

 

Nice to hear ur enjoying work Multay.

[babybear39]

Just send the new bunch the 'bemused' letter, no need for another CCA:

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***DCA*** and has been since ***Date***

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As ***DCA*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***DCA*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Multay]

Cheers BB,

 

I sent them that one though and they just sent the other letter...At the moment I'm seriously considering ignoring them but I would like to send something that quite acidic...lol

 

Mxx

[babybear39]

How about 'Dear cretins, do you read your mail? I find it hard to believe you do because you obviously don't understand it from the replies you send. Please pass all mail to a grown-up who can understand the law'

[babybear39]

Seriously, you need to invoke the complaints procedures of every company in the chain now. A & L are responsible for the actions of the muppets they pass accounts to and should be reported to TS and the OFT, infact report them all 'cos they're all in breach of OFT guidlines, the UCPD and the CPUTR 2008.

[citizenB]

You could amend the letter in Bankfodder's thread in the following link and send to the OFT.

 

It is letter link number 1.

 

The Consumer Forums - Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regs. 2008

 

I have also been sending a copy to the company I am complaining about with a covering letter as follows.

 

 

 

Dear sirs,

 

With reference to your letter dated (whenever)

 

Please find enclosed a copy of a letter I have today sent to the Office of Fair Trading. The letter is self explanatory.

 

Yours etc..

[Multay]

Hi all,

 

I think I will send them this....What do you think????

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated **** and entitled “Notice of Legal Proceedings” the contents of which have been noted.

As you are aware, this account has been in dispute for a significant period of time. You will also be aware that whilst in dispute, the account can neither be sold, passed to a collection agency or enforced by legal means or otherwise.

Unfortunately it seems you are prepared to ignore the OFT guidelines on debt collection, however should you choose to continue enforcement of the alleged debt the are a couple of points I feel I should clarify;

Firstly, for the avoidance of doubt, should you attempt any type of legal enforcement of this alleged debt, I will defend myself and you may be liable for any costs I incur in relation to this defence.

Secondly, I believe you may have misunderstood the Consumer Credit Act.

Activity on any account and a series of statements do not constitute a consumer credit agreement, they merely show that you have the ability to produce a statement.

Furthermore, as you are not the Original Creditor, you cannot in truth verify any activity on any account as you have no knowledge of it.

Should you decide to pursue this matter through the courts, you will be required to prove your legal right to pursue the alleged debt and only the production of the alleged agreement or a certified copy containing the legally required prescribed terms will suffice.

As you are aware, the prescribed terms are an absolute, there is no room for manoeuvre, and they must be contained in their entirety within the four corners of the signature document as laid down in the consumer credit act. This requirement is a complete defence in Law and is backed by, amongst many others, judgement in the House of Lords. The supply of a set of recent, unrelated Terms and Conditions does not conform to the requirements under the Act.

Thirdly, I will be now passing all correspondence to OFT, Trading Standards and FOS in order for them to assess your suitability to hold a Credit Licence as I believe you have not adhered to the OFT guidelines on Debt Collection.

Yours Sincerely,

[Multay]

So, I sent them the letter above in response to the legal threat letter. I don't think they will have it yet, but in the mean time they have sent me a letter telling me that they may go for a STATUTORY DEMAND.

 

Now I have to admit I'm more than tempted to let them pay the 1500 quid to make me bankrupt - They would be doing me a favour really but I think it would be easier not to..;0)

 

I need to send them something else now...Not sure what really though...I know it wouldn't be too hard to get it set aside if they did but could I also hit them for costs?

 

Any advice?????

 

Thanks again...

[angel_1]

hiya multay

 

i like the letter i may even pinch a bit of it and incorporate it within the letter im thinking of doing to another of my creds

 

its the May bit that always throws us isnt it?

 

im not sure of the costs side and of course behind the threat there is a bit of worry, however, im sure others more experienced will come along

 

this is always at the back of my mind however, i know in the end we can always defend it, its just the nagging voice in the background so to speak

 

im off out for a bit but will come in later and see if you have had any updates, hope you can sort this and good luck

 

keep happy laters angel x

[Multay]

Hi Angel,

 

Thanks for the reply....was beginning to think no-one loved me anymore...;0)

 

I'm just not sure how to approach this one as they aren't really taking me seriously...

 

Laters..m

[angel_1]

hhahah no worries

 

 

be back later

 

angel x;)

[Multay]

anyone????

[charliebubs]

Hi Multay,

 

I've just read all your thread with interest as I'm about to start a dispute with A&L (MBNA).

 

Quick question......did you stop paying them from the time that they sent you that load of cobblers?

 

Good luck with whatever action you take next.

[The GodMother]

Multay.

 

Do nothing the letters may have crossed in the post see what come from them next.

 

GM

[Multay]

Cheers GM - I have a nice letter to send them but I'll hang fire, I'll post it up before I send it though.

 

Charlie, I stopped paying as soon as the 14 days were up after I sent the request...Looks like they might go all the way with me though...They already offered to settle for 2000 on 5500 account so I thought what the hell...They must know they are on a loser...But only time will tell...;0)

[The GodMother]

u know multay u can always make ur own offer with ur own conditions

[charliebubs]

Thanks Multay. There seems to be conflicting advice on here as to when you should stop payments, if at all, whether you should do a SAR after the CCA just to make sure that they have absolutely nothing that they could produce in court if it went that far.

 

It does sound as though they have admitted a fault by making that offer to you.

 

Maybe you should make a counter-offer as GM suggests!?!?!

[The GodMother]

charlie

 

some companys send no cca with a SAR or CPR request then still produce it in court.

[Multay]

I would if I had any money but I'm skint!!!

 

I don't what they are going to do, I am a bit worried but I'm sure that I'll get some help to defend against the stat demand...I hope so anyway...;0)

[The GodMother]

Multay thats why and F+F is on your terms.

 

My suggestions would included

 

The info removed from the CRAs

you making payments at a rate u can afford and not disputing

them removing off the account anything u want them to remove like over limit fees etc.

them accepting liablilty for this.

 

If you want more then let me know and i will draft a basic letter.

[Multay]

Cheers for the ofeer GM....;0)....Much appreciated....Still waiting for their reply to my last letter...