Help Reclaiming PPI from Direct auto finance

[brooklyn]

Hello out there,

 

I purchased a car from Yes car credit (direct auto finance) in Feb 2002.

I recently saw Martin Lewis on T.V talking about Reclaiming your PPI,

 

 

This struck a cord with me as I remember vividly the day I bought the car.

I was suprised at the amount to pay and questioned the sales man (i remeber his name was Steve)

he told me it was all the added insurances. PPI, mechanical breakdown cover and GAP,

to which I replied "do I have to have them?" and I was told "yes and its nessesary for your application to have them".

 

 

I asked "even the breakdown cover?", I pointed out my husband an I have always been covered by rac and green flag so wouldn't need breakdown cover I was told "it was all included and was necessary".

 

It was late in the day almost closing and I was being rushed to get the sale finished and I needed a car (stupid I know).

 

My receipt states:

Vehicle price plus Vat £4529.00 less £300 Part exchange less £100 deposit. total price £4129.00.

 

My agreement states:

(The vehice and its finance box)

Cash price £4529.00 ( query different to above)

less vehicle deposit (left blank? Why when there was one paid)

amount financed £4529

Total charges £1891.00 made up of:

finance charges £1741.00

admin fee £150.00

Balance payable £6420.00

APR 19.9%

48 instalments of £133.75

 

(In the additional isurances box):

£1365.08 PPI

£650.00 mechanical breakdown

£250.00 GAP

total £2265.08 less down payment £400

shortfall required by credit £1865.08 add interest £778.76

balance payable £2643.84

Totalpayable £3043.84

Apr 19.9%48 monthly instalments

£55.08 ammount of each insurance instalment

 

Total monthly instalment £133.75

insurance instalment £55.08

Total monthly instalment £188.83

 

I settled the account early, in Nov 2003 I paid £4985.74, when I received the settlement figure I was astounded it was so much and phoned up and questioned if it was correct and was told it was so much due to all the added extra's such as insurances that were part of the agreement I signed. So I paid up.

 

So, As I still have my agreement and the figures are heart breaking I sent a letter reclaiming the PPI from the template on Matin Lewis's site. I received a prompt reply as follows:

 

Dear Mrs xxxxxxxx

 

Agreement Number- xxxxxxxx

 

We refer to your letter dated 18th April 2008, received on 29th April 2008.

 

We have reveiwed your file fully, regarding the points raised.

 

The insurance part of the agreement is a fixed sum credit agreement whereby the products purchased have single premiums payable to the supplier of the various products by Direct Auto Finance Services and the customer is then able to pay the insurance premiums over a period (uually 48 months) to Direct Auto Financial Services to the customer. The agreement itself is very clear as to what has to be paid in total for both the vehicle and the insurances, the individual items and monthly instalments are also clearly set out.

 

we would like to confirm the refund of premiums as follows:-

 

 

1. Direct Auto Financial services receives no premium refund from the insurers underwriting mechanical breakdown and Guaranteed Asset Protection in the event customers terminate their agreement early.
   
2. direct Auto Financial Sevices passes on to the customer the premium refund received from the insurer underwriting Payment Protection insurance when their agreement is terminated.
   
3. A customer agreement can be terminated by way of early settlement, volentry termination or repossesion.
   

We regret any suggestion that the sale of the policy in question was in anyway mis sold. you have provided no evidence of this and have only raised this issue several years later.

Your recollection of the facts in February 2002, now appear very vivid, so we have reviewed the documentation you signed, the interpretation is also clear:-

 

 

Conditional Sale Agreement

1. You signed an important legal document,in which you specifyically confirmed you wanted to be "legally bound by its terms"
   
2. Just above your signature in the Customer's Declaration, there are statements which state, "I/We agree that the above statements are correct." you signed the agreement.
   
3. Given point 2) I refer to your Point 8 "Additional Insurance Protection". where the "yes" box is ticked to the statement "have you received a leaflet with details of the insurance(s) you have applied for and explaining the extent of cover"?
   
4. To reafirm point 3) you signed the customer Declaration under the paragraph commencing "I/We agree that the above statements are correct".
   

You claim that you were told that the insurance had to be taken out in order to assist your credit application. However:

• You have provided no particulars of the conversations, which are alleged to have taken place.
  
• You have only raised this issue several years later, after you have settled the agreement and fortunately found no reason to claim under the policy.
  

In the circumstances we consider your argument for the refund of your insurance premiums to be wholly without merit. Your position is not supported by any evidence. We have no reason to beleive that our standard procedures were not followed at the time the agreement was entered into, Our position is borne out by the documents signed by you.

 

It remains your perogotive to take whatever action you feel nessesary, if you still feel pusuit of a 'claim' is warrented. We have responded to your correspondence and will now close your file. However, please note that this agreement with our company started on 19th February 2002 and therefore, occured bfore we were FSA authorised. It is our understanding that this therfore falls outside the juristriction of the financial Obudsman service.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Mrs Caroline Dixon

Collection Manager

 

I have 2 carbon copies of the agreement a pink and yellow copy (the yellow one is not signed by them) I still have all that was given to me on the day and there is no PPI policy or leaflet. and I did not tick any box's the whole form was filled out and box's ticked by the sales assitant I only signed it.

 

Is the last statement they make about the FSA true? Is there anything I can do? if so whats next?

 

Many thanks

Brooklyn.

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Brooklyn,

 

MMMmmm pretty good letter for a standard go away and get lost response.

 

There comment regarding that this is the first contact regarding this is a bit of a joke. It has only now come to light what scandelous activities these companies were up to for unjust enrichment. This is why the ppi market has been investigated by the fsa, oft and now been referred to the Information commissions office.

 

Yes unfortunately they are correct with their comment regarding the fos will not investigate your claim,as the loan and ppi where before the fsa regulated them but you can and issue court proceeding for the return of your money.

 

I would be looking more at the commission side of things. I would be asking them if the sale of the ppi was commission based. Possibly the sale was to the advantage of someone:rolleyes:

[brooklyn]

Hi,

 

Thanks so much for your response, should I write back requesting that information regarding the commision based sale or do I continue to the court and if so how would I proceed, and do I have a case?

 

Many thanks for your advice

Brooklyn

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Brooklyn,

 

Please have a read of this last letter finlander has sent to a company that has mis-sold ppi.

 

Finlander V Firstplus

It refers to the commission based selling practice law case precedent. Hurstanger. Makes good reading;) There is also information in this matter in the stickies, I think under the court bundle, or poc stuff.

 

here is the link post 5. mmmmmhhhh very good stuff

 

Useful Documents for PPI Bundles

 

Personally, I think, they think they are talking to a bit of a idiot, so I would be sending them a rather informative snotty letter back, but that me, argue for arguements sake

Edited May 17, 2008 by hellhasnofury

[brooklyn]

Hi again

 

Many thanks I'll look into it all this weekend and I was quite annoyed at the tone of the letter it was a bit demeaning, I'm not an idiot just trusting in what companies tell me, at the time we didn't know it was optional and now we do.

 

Brooklyn

[brooklyn]

hello again,

 

Before I send my response to DAFS is there any code of practice or t&c's that they would have been operating under in 2002 the only ref I can find to anything is on my agreement which was regulated by the consumer credit act 1974.

 

I'm reading though as many threads as possible to gather info but if someone could point me in the right direction it would be a big help. I've used the link to the thread given above and the letter written in response to request is outstanding but am unsure as to what is relevent in my case.

 

Brooklyn.

[Fluffy Viper]

Hi Brooklyn.

I am in exactly the same boat as I got my car from YCC in Dec 2003 before they became regulated by the FSA.

 

 

I have recently asked for my PPI to be refunded and received back exactly the same letter almost word for word.

 

 

I was wondering what to do next but I think a SAR to find out what commisions were paid is the way to go. I read that advice on another site as well,

 

 

I am also considering reclaiming my charges for late payments as well. I still have my car (its actually been quite good) and its piad up in January (hooray).

 

Just to add,

I bought my car in almost exactly the same circumstances as well.

Got to the branch about 6pm.

 

 

After choosing a car they said I could afford (a choice of 3 out of about 80) I

then spent the next two hours in a small room whilst they kept returning about every 15 mins with a lower figure to persuade me to buy the the car

(which i really needed as my lift to work was leaving in two days).

 

 

Its funny but every figure they quoted me must have included all the OPTIONAL Insurances because the final figure they verbally quoted me was the total figure for everything on the finance agreement. Why was i never quoted a figure for the car and then the insurances separate?

[brooklyn]

Hi fluffy viper,

 

Thanks for the support, I'm so annoyed because I brought the subject up at the time and was told I had to have all the extras to get the credit for car even the breakdown cover, even though we've always been covered by RAC and green flag. I just trusted them and needed a car and didn't know any better at the time. I'll keep you informed of my progress if you would do the same.

Just one thing, where would I find a template SAR request for the commisions paid or is it just a standard one like the bank charges one?

Many thanks and good luck

Brooklyn.

[Fluffy Viper]

I am sure its just the standard SAR. If you send them that they have to send ALL the information they have relating to you.

[brooklyn]

Many thanks fluffy viper. I thought i'd save some money and cancel my capitalone card PPI so I phoned them up just to cancel it and they asked me a few questions and told me I had been miss sold the PPI due to the hours I was working at the time and they'll look into paying it back but not to get my hopes up just in case. I only phoned to cancel it, how refreshing to have someone accknowledge it without being prompted.

 

Brooklyn

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Brooklyn,

 

Well this sound very promising:D If they do refund the money, make sure they pay you all of it back, plus interest:-D

[Fluffy Viper]

Hi Brooklyn.

I have just been doing some reading on the website which explains that although we bought our cars and hence the PPI before the FSA regulations began in Jan 05

 

 

if YES belonged to one of the following bodies:

the Association of British Insurers,

the General Insurance Standards Council

or the Finance and Leasing Association

 

 

then they still had the same rules to follow according to the codes of practice of the three bodies above.

 

 

We should have been told all about the PPI when it was taken out.

All we need to know is if Yes(or perhaps DAF) were members of any of these bodies.

(seems unlikely as cowboys aren't usually in trade associations)

but if they were then it makes our case against them stronger.

 

 

If anybody can answer this or has any thoughts it would help.

[Fluffy Viper]

Since January 2005, the sale of payment protection insurance (PPI) policies has been regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA), but advisers selling PPI before this date, still had rules to follow.

person working out calculations

 

If the sale didn't follow the rules you may be entitled to a refund of the premiums you've paid

 

The FSA’s rules are very clear about what firms and advisers selling PPI should do at the time the insurance is sold to you,

however this will differ slightly depending on whether the sale was ‘advised’ or ‘non-advised’.

Firms or advisers should have made it clear to you on which basis the sale was made.

All sales

 

All firms and advisers must do the following, whether or not the sale was ‘advised’ or ‘non-advised’.

 

* The adviser should have made it clear that PPI was optional (if this was the case).

* The adviser should have made you aware of any significant policy exclusions and checked whether any of these exclusions applied to you.

* The adviser should have made it clear how much the policy would cost and whether the PPI would be paid for by a single up front premium, or by regular premiums.

* If it was a single premium policy, then the adviser should have made it clear that the cost of the insurance would be added to the loan or finance agreement, and that you would pay interest on the insurance premium.

* If the insurance expired before your loan or finance agreement, the adviser should have made it clear that this was the case and (in the case of single premium policies) that you would continue to pay interest on the insurance premium after the insurance had expired.

 

If some or all of this information was not made clear to you either before or at the time you agreed to take out the insurance, then you have grounds for complaint.

Sales talk

 

The adviser might have tried to persuade you to take out PPI by saying something like “we strongly recommend that you consider taking out PPI”. If this is the case, then the sale has moved from a ‘non-advised’ to an ‘advised’ sale.

 

If this happened to you and you did not receive a demands and needs statement (see below), then you have grounds for complaint.

Advised sales

 

There are certain additional requirements on firms and advisers that carry out ‘advised’ sales.

 

With an advised sale the adviser must assess whether you need PPI, considering your circumstances and any existing insurance you might have. The adviser must also assess whether the policy, including its costs, meets your needs.

Meeting your needs

 

If the policy does not meet all your needs, perhaps because of one of the exclusions, the adviser must clearly tell you which of your needs the policy will not meet and must take this into account when considering whether to recommend the policy to you.

 

With advised sales, the adviser must issue a demands and needs statement to show why a particular policy has been recommended and why it is suitable for you.

 

Firms or advisers giving advised sales must keep records showing that a suitable recommendation was made, and recording any demands and needs that might not have been met.

After the sale

 

The company may try to wriggle out of upholding your complaint by saying that all this information was provided to you in writing after the sale. If it does do this, then don't be put off because just because information was send to you after the event, doesn't mean that the sale of the insurance followed the rules.

 

The rules are very clear that you must be given a certain amount of information at the time you are buying the insurance so you can make an informed decision as to whether the insurance is right for you or not.

 

 

If you weren't told about things like cost and policy exclusions until after you had bought the insurance then you couldn't take these things into account when make your decision. The sale of payment protection insurance wasn't regulated by the Financial Services Authority until 14 January 2005.

 

bank statement and calculator

 

Before January 2005 PPI sales still had rules to follow

Codes of practice

 

However, advisers selling PPI still had rules to follow. Most firms or advisers selling PPI would be covered by a code of practice imposed by one of three trade bodies: the Association of British Insurers (ABI), the General Insurance Standards Council (GISC) or the Finance and Leasing Association (FLA).

 

All three codes of practice required advisers to provide information at the time the insurance was taken out, to help you decide if the policy was suitable for you.

 

Essentially, advisers and firms were required to cover the same points as they do according to the current rules.

No extra requirements for advice

 

The main difference between sales before and after regulation is that all sales before regulation were 'non-advised', as the 'advised' regime didn’t come in until regulation was introduced.

 

So, even if your policy was sold to you before 14 January 2005, if the adviser didn’t cover the points under 'all sales' on the PPI – the rules page, then you may have been mis-sold and should make a complaint.

[Fluffy Viper]

Hope that helps

[brooklyn]

Hello fluffy viper,

 

My god you've been busy!

I've been searching for such a code of practice that they were operating under but with no luck. My next move is to go through all my paperwork in my loft to see if there is anything relating to this. I only keep the main paperwork in files but sometimes I keep other bits and pieces in box's for a couple of years so hopefully there will be something like 'regulated by' in there somewhere, there is nothing on my agreement not even the name of the PPI company.

 

I'll let you know

Brooklyn

[brooklyn]

hi,

I hope youre all still here.

 

Its been a long time and I have suffered some illness so I never followed through with my claim

 

 

I am on the mend and with the recent court cases and ppi being in the news

I sent another letter in the hope my case would be looked at again especially as I have been told my agreement was filled out incorrectly.

 

 

I received a nice reponse saying a 'detailed investigation' would follow in the next 8 weeks, that was dated 26th may 2011.

6 days later dated June 1st I received another letter saying a 'detailed investigation' was carried out and as the agreement was made prior to ICOB rules and they were not members of GISC therefore the GISC code nor the FSA, ICOB rules applied to them.

 

 

I have drafted a response using fluffy vipers letter in the link above in the thread I hope its ok but before I post it was hoping for any advice. I find it hard to beleive a detailed investigation was carried out in 6 days including postal time and a bank holiday weekend. Any help greatfully appreciated xx

[postggj]

Daf

yes car

etc etc

 

 

they all belong to the finance and leasing authority so follow the advice and cary on with the claim

[GRH]

I am in a very similar position to you with DAF

 

In March I wrote to them stating that I believed the PPI + GAP insurance was missold, they asked me to complete the questionnaire from the FSA which I did and sent it in

 

They appear to have "lost" that version (I did not send it "to be signed for") so resent it at the beginning of June. I received their acknowledgement with the standard "we'll write back to you within 8 weeks" which they did.

 

The response was almost identical to yours above where they basically said "you have no proof"

 

I only received the response a few days ago but am now considering how to proceed. They are right that at the time of the loan they were not regulated by FSA but the FSA is a toothless tiger anyway.

 

My options appear to be:

1 Do nothing (I hate this option)

2 Take them to court for the amount

 

I am currently leaning towards option 2 but unfortunately it comes down to my word against theirs

 

Has anyone else got beyond this stage with DAF who can advise us?

[postggj]

we all know they were missold

 

have you done a sar ondaf

 

they are in horsham

[GRH]

I have done a SAR (did it very early in the year) and they have provided me with a CD-ROM with all the data on (I didn't have a copy of ,my paperwork from 2002 so they kindly provided it (as they should))

[postggj]

anything on underwriting sheets

 

who provides the ppi and all the other insurance crap

[GRH]

Looking through the documentation for GAP and PPI:

 

"The Policyholder" Direct Auto Financial Services Ltd

"The Underwriters" The National Insurance and Guarantee Corporation Limited trading as NIG in respect of Disability and Involuntary Unemployment Benefits and Criterion Life Assurance Limited, whose Head Office address is Swan Court, Swan Street, Petersfield, Hampshire GU32 3AF in respect of Life Insurance Benefit

[postggj]

Have you any policy documents

[GRH]

Enclosed (in the following posts) are the policy documents I received from my SAR last year (there were plenty of other pages but they were copies of letters, payment history and information copied from their internal systems, these are the only documents that are contractual

 

Looking at it more closely I cannot see any documents that particularly pertain to the PPI (what I thought was covered earlier may only be the GAP ones) and I checked the box saying I was expecting some more information to follow. I would be interested in other people's opinion as to if PPI is covered on this documentation

[dx100uk]

i have removed you images GRH

as they show pers details.

 

follow this guide and BLANK out your info using PAINT program, not with a PEN!

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx