newbie today

[fedup74]

Hi think I posted my first thread in wrong place. would like to know if the unenforceable credit agreement can be used when you already have a CCJ & Charging order. Sent off CCA request before it got to court but not heard anything yet. Judge was aware of this but didn't bat an eyelid. We had visions of it getting thrown out of court but alas! Would appreciate advice please thankyou

[nicklea]

fedup,

 

I suggest that you send a pm to pt2537 he should be able to offer advice.

 

However, what people will need to know in some detail in order to help you is the following (leaving out any personal details)

 

What was the debt for (credit card loan current account etc)?

 

Was this court hearing for the charging order or to get the CCJ? So did you already have a CCJ before this occasion in court?

 

Who was the claimant on the court form?

 

What exactly was on the Particulars of Claim from the court? By that, I mean what did the claim actually say? eg The Claimant claims £xxx because

 

What exactly did you submit as your defence?

 

What happened on the day when you were at court?

 

I know this seems a lot of questions, but to get the best advice people will need to know this

[Truther]

As to the court i would ask afew question first before any procedings.

 

Ask the Judge

If this is a Fair Hearing?

Is it a Meaningful Hearing?

If there was a conflict of interest would the Judge remove himself?

Who do you Represent here Sir?

 

The contents of this post should not be construed as being legal advice

 

Peace

 

Truther

[rory32]

Ask the Judge

If this is a Fair Hearing?

Is it a Meaningful Hearing?

If there was a conflict of interest would the Judge remove himself?

Who do you Represent here Sir?

 

Yes getting on the wrong side of the judge is always a good start

[Truther]

Yes getting on the wrong side of the judge is always a good start

 

Well think you have been mis-informed. I doubt asking the judge those questions will get on the wrong side of him.

 

sorry if i have mis-understood comment any way.

 

The judge has to anwer those questions for things to proced

well we can't unfair hearing now can we now

 

And a other thing is that if your asked your NAME

legal or lawful name?

 

peace

 

Truther

 

The contents of this post should not be construed as being legal advice

not legal advice; get a lawyer (if you're crazy)

[fedup74]

Hi would I be able to appeal against this judgement if so who do I appeal to and what is the time limit? Still waiting for info off HFC cheers guys:)

[fedup74]

Hi debt was for loan of £15000 in 2004. We received the court form and passed it over to the debt management company who wrote in our defence and informed them of our circumstances and the fact that they had been accepting £85 a month since July 07. That was the last we heard until the CCJ arrived telling us "The claimant(HFC Bank Ltd Litigations dept) objects to the rate of payment you offered. The court has decided the rate you pay. You must pay £29,393.73 by installments of £207.49 per month" (We never got a date through when the hearing was being held in Northampton) We then wrote a letter of reconsideration to the court and had a hearing in our local court on 9th May. In the meantime HFC applied for a charging order to be heard on the same day. When we got to court HFC's solicitor was very surprised to see us:shock: To be fair the judge was very nice:? and said his hands where tied as the judgement had already been passed in Northampton so he couldn't go against it. He granted the charging order but said we could pay back £89 per month:lol: to start on 3rd June. I would like to know if we can appeal against the charging order and what the time limit to appeal is and who we would appeal to. Incidentally the judge asked the solicitor how the loan for £15000 had turned into £29,393.73- she didn't have a clue:rolleyes: and the judge wrote down that they woul have to supply that information. No info as yet!!! Cheers everybody:)

[nicklea]

fedup,

 

EDIT - ignore this post you just posted the answers

[nicklea]

OK,

 

You really do the help of some one like pt2537.

 

The first thing you need to do is to apply to get the CCJ set aside. Have a read around here for posts about setting aside a CCJ.

 

As this all happened in Northampton it means that the case wasn't defended and the Debt Management Company simply admitted the debt or didn't respond at all.

 

I don't know how difficult that is going to be to overcome.

 

I would suggest sending an sar to HFC to get all the information they have about you and mention in particular that you want the original signed agreement. This costs £10 to send

 

With regard to how the debt ended up at £29k that depends on the t&cs of the agreement. So you can't really tell anything until you get all the documents from HFC.

 

Hope this is of some help

[fedup74]

Thankyou so much will have a good read around really appreciate your reply:)

[creditcardmug]

As to the court i would ask afew question first before any procedings.

 

Ask the Judge

If this is a Fair Hearing?

Is it a Meaningful Hearing?

If there was a conflict of interest would the Judge remove himself?

Who do you Represent here Sir?

 

The contents of this post should not be construed as being legal advice

 

Peace

 

Truther

 

sorry i think the posters on here need meaningful and helpful advice

[fedup74]

Have received letter off HFC today, no signed credit agreement- "Not available at this time but will be sent later!":mad: It is a list of payments made. They have got the start date of the loan wrong and the amount- says loan was for £19k:confused: HELP please where do we go from here?

[fedup74]

Anybody help please:)

[nicklea]

fedup,

 

I think that it would be best to send them an sar asking for all the information they hold on you. Have a look around on the site for examples of letters.

 

In the sar, specifically ask for the original signed agreement along with everything else. They are supposed to reply to this within 40 days.

 

You could also send them a s10 dpa notice on the grounds that you don't believe there is a signed agreement in existance. This is free to do and they are supposed to reply in 21 days. If they don't do this then you can go to court and force them to do it.

 

To be honest, until you've got the original signed agreement there's not a lot that you can do, so you would be best (in my opinion) to keep on pressing them until they do respond.

 

If you were to go to court asking for the CCJ to be set aside just on the grounds that they hadn't responded to your s77/78 request, I don't know how successful that would be. But if you were to go to court with an agreement that wasn't enforceable then you would be much more likely to get it set aside.

 

If they are saying that the original loan was for £19k then it sounds either like they have got the figures wrong or you had ppi with the loan. ppi pays out if you're sick, unemployed etc. There's a separate section of the forum that you might want to look at that deals with ppi to see if you might have any grounds for claiming that the ppi was missold. By the way, if it was ppi, were your circumatances such that you could have made a claim under it - it usually covers just sickness and unemployment?

 

 

A s10 dpa notice would look something like this:-

 

The Data Controller

HFC

Notice Pursuant to Section 10, Data Protection Act 1998

Account No: xxxxxxxx

Dear Sir,

Take Notice that I require you to cease entirely from processing, or else that you do not begin to process, any personal data of which I am the subject within 7 days of the receipt by you of this notice.

This includes particularly, but is not limited to, any processing involving the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to any alleged agreement between us.

This Notice is given on the ground that there is no signed agreement in existence that entitles you to process my personal data.

Further, the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or distress to me in addition to that which may already have been caused and that, as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the first, fourth and sixth principles of the Data Protection Act 1998, to do so would be unwarranted.

If you fail to respond to this notice within the prescribed timescale I will make an application to the court under Section 10(4) Data Protection Act that you be ordered to comply with this notice.

This letter has been sent by Recorded Delivery.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Hope this is helpful

[fedup74]

Thanks for that really appreciate it. Did have a look around this fantastic site re setting aside a CCJ. Phoned national debt line who were really helpful. I will ring payplan tomorrow as we are going through an IVA with them see if they have any advice and may go to CAB see if they can shed any light of how we go about appealing. Once again thankyou:)

[fedup74]

Had an email from Restons today saying that they were aware of the district judges requirements ie financial statements and their time limits. Have not received any payment details as to who the money is paid to ?HFC ?Restons. Just worried that if we do miss a payment on 3rd June (even though we have not got any of the details of how the debt amounts to £29k) Incidentally on the form from HFC the amount owing in January was £17,432.88 when it was passed over to Restons. Surely they don't expect us to pay £10k to them for the privelege of sending us letters?

[fedup74]

There is a PPI on loan. Partner was told the loan would not be successful if no PPI was taken out!! This I now know is complete bull thanks to this site. Have written a letter of complaint to HFC which is being handled as we type! Surely the judge should have requested to see details of the loan (which their solicitor said she didn't have available:confused:) Or would the judge in Northampton had to have seen it to pass judgement? Also as I have mentioned the little data we have received off HFC stated the balance on 2nd Jan was £17k before being handed over to Restons on 4th Jan.First letter partner received from Restons mid January was for balance of £24.5k:o Then in February it had gone up to £28k. Just really confused and worried they will not supply documents and how we would go about getting the final balance reduced. Please help thanks

[rory32]

would the judge in Northampton had to have seen it to pass judgement?

Northampton is just the bulk processing centre for County Court claims.

[fedup74]

But would they have had to get a judge to look at their demand for a ccj and so shown the original signed document? If not surely this is wrong as they could claim we owe them any extortionate amount of money. (Which I think they have) Sorry don't mean to sound like an airhead here

[rory32]

The judge wouldn't ask to see a copy of the credit agreement unless the claim was defended and it was called into question. If the claim wasn't defended then it would just be processed and judgement granted in favour of the claimant.

[fedup74]

I remember a member of staff from the DMP filled out a statement along the lines of "We are currently on a DMP paying £85per month. We are not trying to evade payment" If only I knew what I know now:( It is really frustrating because the judge has ordered my partner to pay a totally elevated loan of £29k, we are not getting anywhere with requests for information. Incidentally the CCA request was sent before the court hearing and still not seen anything. My main worry is if my OH pays £89 then he will have no option but to pay the whole amount to these greedy unfair people:-x then again if he does not pay and says the account is in dispute(like he has all along) they could get an order to sell our house(not that they would get anything as we would be in negative equity) This does give me a little satisfaction but not much

[debbbbsy]

Take a look at manchester1 he's already applied his N244 & is getting some good advice....especially from blossomandebony who was successfull in having her ccj setaside.

[debbbbsy]

Has anyone provided you with a statement showing how the debt has increased? If it has incurred charges & interest that are excessive[unlawful] this MIGHT be grounds to apply an N244.But you'll need to get all your facts together and cover every base....this will take time.Also even if you are successful they will probably come after you again for an ammended amount.If by then they still haven't complied wth your CCA request, could be they won't be able to enforce the debt.Have you done a SAR on them.You never Know what data there holding on you & mistakes there making not just with your finances but personal data.Any ammo you can get against them will help when you go back to court.

[fedup74]

Received papers off solicitors today "complying with judges' order" NOT!!!

No signed credit agreement despite CCA sent on 28th April. A statement of account-(wrong date for start of loan) with an opening balance of £30k WRONG. Loan was for £15k added PPI of £4100(which we have complained about) I telephoned soliditor asking for original signed credit agreement and he stated that they don't have to supply that! I corrected him and he asked who informed me that they do have to supply it. I told him CCA 1974 s77& 78. He told me to put it in writing!

[nicklea]

Hi fedup,

 

You haven't said anything about what this order was. Could you type up the details of the order?

 

Depending on what was actually said in the order they may or may not have complied with it.

 

I'm afraid that you are wrong when you say that s77/78 requires an agreement with a signature.

 

It is actually s61 that is the relevant bit. Without a properly signed agreement they don't have aleg to stand on:-

 

61. — (1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b)the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

©the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

 

 

Then the court cannot make an enforcement order due to s127:-

 

127. (3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

 

hope this helps