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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Marlin/Mortimer Clarke Help


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Hello all,

 

I recently received my court papers from these fine people :mad:

 

It was for a bank overdraft with HSBC that I couldn't pay as I was made redundant back in 2001. I now have employment, and since then I have been paying a monthly amount to a DCA, until Marlin bought the debt November last year.

 

On the court papers, they are claiming £1,040.81 in interest on my debt which stands at £2,214.80, which, along with the court and solicitor fees comes out at a total of £3420.61

 

What I am worried about is the next part of the wording which states their intention to charge a daily rate of interest of 0.49 until Judgment or sooner payment.

 

Does this mean if I want to defend the interest charges (I admit the original debt), they are just going to keep mounting up?

 

I've read many threads on here regarding these guys, but haven't heard of any outcomes yet.

 

I don't really know what to do now. I haven't asked for anything from them as yet, simply because I didn't know I had that right as I have only just found out about these forums.

 

Please help :(

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ok you have to acknowledge the claim within 14 days on the date of the papers, then you have another 14 days to file the defence....

 

I'm not an expert on this but I would send the solicitors this in the first instance....send it by recorded / guaranteed delivery....have you attempted to reclaim any of the excessive charges on the account ?

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

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Its worth SARing HSBC because if the amount contains unlawful charges it could make the default notice unlawful and you have case law Woodchester v Swain to back this p, plus the amount shown in the POC could be disputed

Live Life-Debt Free

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Thanks for the replies both.

 

I've been reading through a few other threads since posting this and I am starting to gain a little confidence in what I need to do. However, I don't really know the order to do them in.

 

42man, I haven't done anything as of yet apart from write to them asking to pay monthly, as I was doing before the debt was sold to them.

 

B3rty, HSBC terminated the account more than 6 years ago, will the unlawful charges still apply in that case? I do know they made charges on my overdraft as I went over the agreed limit shortly after being made redundant.

 

How do I go about SARing HSBC? Any useful threads you could point me to would be a great help.

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Don't ignore the court papers, they will possibly ignore your letter and let a judge decide, they are hoping you won't defend and that they will get judgment by default.....you do not need to send a SAR as the letter I have copied in above is a CPR - Civil Procedure Request. They have to provide what you have asked as it is relevant to the defence....

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Thanks 42man :)

 

Ok, I will get that typed up and sent off tomorrow. As I said, they have provided me with no documents regarding this debt other than a letter back in November saying that they had taken over the debt from the 05/10/2007, although to be fair I didn't actually ask for anything as I was too scared!

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If they do produce the documents, do I have any argument regarding the amount of interest they intend to charge?

 

The way they have worded it considering it is a court document is ridiculous ;

 

2. Interest at the rate pursuant to the Agreement namely 1,040.81 & continuing until Judgment etc etc

 

It sounds like the rate of interest is 1,040.81% !!! (which obviously it is not)

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Theres an irony here on what assumptions they make for the charges

 

I bet they haven't seen an agreement simply because you never signed one other than for the account so its those T&Cs that are relevant here...

 

They always claim back to the default date but they purchased the account a few months back...

 

They work on the premise that you wont defend

 

BTW is this Marlin or Marlin behalf of Phoenix?

Live Life-Debt Free

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Hi guys :)

 

42man, yes they sent me a default notice saying they would be handing the debt over to their solicitors and proceeding with court action.

 

B3rty, the company stated on the solicitor's letter is Phoenix Recoveries(UK) Ltd Sarl-Marlin Recoveries.

 

I've sent off the letter above (thanks 42man) today by special delivery.

 

Have also acknowledged the court forms on-line.

 

So I just play the waiting game now to see what Marlin send me?

 

Is it worth me asking HSBC for anything bearing in mind the account was terminated by them in 2001, after they had slapped a load of charges on it.

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Thats not a default notice as per the legal requirements this has to be issued by the creditor and would have come from HSBC

 

Marlin are Phoenix's servicing agents as Phoenix are based in Europe....

 

Mortimier Clarke are their legal entity known as solicitors but not a firm as you or I would know it, they have one registered solicitor who is also a co-director of companies in the Marlin group who are basically virtual trading styles to look make them look like they are bigger then they are

 

Just for your own amusement, put the Marlin postcode into google maps and look at their offices....

 

Dont be fooled by the Marlin Europe address this is a PO box in London.

 

What you have is a business set up just to litigate unsecured debt into secured debt as the money behind this is private equity and its all about profit...

Live Life-Debt Free

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Ok....

 

Seems they all work in some sort of shed in a field :eek:

 

B3rty, I have heard nothing from HSBC since 2001 when they first handed the debt over to a DCA. Am I supposed to get a letter from them before Marlin can take me to court?

 

If it goes to a court hearing, how do they represent themselves at my defence if they only have 1 solicitor? Maybe they hire a local solicitor on their behalf or something.

 

Even more interesting, they seem to process all their debts electronically using custom databases/algorithms - to filter out the likely payers I presume. It all seems far too automated to me, almost as if a handful of people could make you feel like you are dealing with some massive financial institution.

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The bank should have sent a default notice giving you 7 days ( Its now 14)to bring the account up to date , this needs to contain certain information and dates to make it legal...with out issuing this the debt can't be assigned.

 

I would definately SAR HSBC

 

They would appoint a solicitor to attend the local court hearing..

Live Life-Debt Free

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Is this the letter I send to HSBC?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

 

 

Sorry to sound a little dense - up until a few days ago I was truly clueless about any of this information (or even the existence of the CAG forums), I just let them shout & bully me into this situation. I'm in IT support, so I am used to getting shouted at by people ;)

 

Will HSBC even have records back that far considering I opened the bank account in 1997?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok small update. On the original letter I sent to Marlin, it's taken 8 days for them to send me a letter saying they want to charge me £10 for a SAR and they cannot process my request until that time.

 

I'm sure I read a thread on here stating that I wouldn't have to pay this because they are the ones taking me to court and I need this information for my defence, but I cannot find any topics now ..typical :(

 

If someone could let me know if I do indeed need to pay this £10 I would be grateful.

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Sorry to bump this, but could anyone give me a quick answer as to if I need to pay for a CPR when they are the ones filing for a CCJ?

 

They seem to think I am asking for a SAR in reply to 42man's letter I sent them.

 

Thanks

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Yay, b3rty :D

 

Thanks for the reply. I will get a letter off to them stating I am requesting a CPR not a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

Also, I was looking at the court claim form again, and I am worried about the POC, particularly this under section 2 ;

 

2. Interest at the rate pursuant to the Agreement namely 1,040.81 & continuing until Judgment or sooner payment at the daily rate of 0.49 or in the alternative interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984.

 

Does this mean that if they produce all the required documents, it goes to court and I lose, I am going to end up owing an even greater amount due to a daily rate of interest? Our debt has already increased from the original debt of £2,214.80 to £3420.61 due to the interest they have applied.

 

Sorry to keep asking all the questions, but my husband normally deals with everything financial, but he has recently become very ill and unable to help me with any of this, so I am kind of stuck not really knowing exactly what I am doing :( :(

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You are jumping ahead a bit here as they have to produce a copy of the overdraft agreement, default notice and notice of assignment....however the POC needs to check out so if they have assumed an incorrect rate of interest thats one more thing to add to the list....

  • Haha 1

Live Life-Debt Free

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

Ok update on my situation. After multiple requests for information, I finally had a letter from Mortimer/Clarke saying they have requested the info and will pass it on to me. However, that is the last thing I heard from them and my defence needs to be in by next Wednesday (4th June).

 

Do I need to start a separate thread to get help with my defence in the legal issues sub-forum? I know what I want to say but I really have no idea how to present it in a formal, legal manner.

 

Basically, I would like some proof as to Marlin actually owning my debt before I look at a settlement. So far, I have had nothing from them except a letter stating they had taken over my debt and then demands etc.

 

I have always wanted to pay the debt off, indeed I told them it would be repaid by the end of this year and now I am in the situation where I can repay the full amount, however I want to object to the amount of interest they have added, namely £1040.81 on a debt of £2214.80 that they purchased just last October. I think this is completely unreasonable.

 

Depending on what paperwork (if any) turns up before next Wednesday, I would like to be able to alter my defence in light of this information - is this also possible to say?

 

Any help in how I put all this down in writing would be so appreciated.

 

Thanks all :)

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Bump for me :(

 

Could anyone please help me on how to word my defence or point me to a suitable one for my situation. I think it's a fairly simple case. I'm objecting to the debt because I have received no proof Marlin own the debt. If they can provide all the correct paperwork, then I am willing to repay the debt in full (big thank you mum & dad), but want to object to the interest (which I cannot afford to pay off if I pay the debt off) they have applied as I believe it to be totally unreasonable. I do not mind paying the court fees/solicitors costs that they have stated on my court claim form.

 

If anyone can help that would be great as my deadline is fast approaching.

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If it's any help to you, I have a claim ongoing with MCE Portfolio, who are using Marlins to collect and Mortimer Clarke as solicitors:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/137898-mce-portfolio.html

 

It seems they're playing the same game with your docs & proof as in my case (though I haven't done the CPR18 request). Anyway, my defence is on the thread if you want to use any of it :)

 

Cheers

Michael

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law.

 

Please see the following copyright statement

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Thanks mcuth, your thread makes interesting reading.

 

I posted my defence off today, deadline Wednesday.

 

So far I have heard nothing back from Marlin.

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So far I have heard nothing back from Marlin.

 

Ditto - I can't wait to see them in court :)

 

Cheers

Michael

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law.

 

Please see the following copyright statement

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