Breach of Contract - no way to achieve anything?

[GZ2008]

Hello there,

 

This is quite a long story so bear with me whilst I go through the nitty gritty details; i'll attempt to summarise where possible.

 

Summary (detailed version following)

 

- Graduate starting work, already very knowledgable about computers

- Gets a job which required only a 16yr old who didn't need anything apart from 4 GCSEs (N.B. 16yrs old can't drive)

- Gets told to use my car for business, despite it not being anywhere on contract, job description or person spec.

- Refuses for various reasons (transporting hardware, costly to me, business insurance very expensive)

- Gets told that my degree is worthless and that I should forget I had it, and start a clean slate again

- Gets told that if I don't get business insurance I will be sacked

- Resigns

- Gets told that I have no leg to stand on since I didn't work with the council for over 12 months

 

 

Long Version

 

Recently graduating with a Computing Degree I got myself fixed up with a job - 'Trainee ICT Technical Analyst' for the Local Government was the title, which the actual interview description from the ICT Manager being:

"we will find out what you are good at, and we will train you up to do that. You won't get promoted until someone else quits, which could be a year or two."

 

The job description had very few (and very low) requirements: 4 GCSES A-C (maths + english essential) and an interest in computers.

 

I had a honours degree, 4 A Levels (Maths, Physics, English French), 10 GCSEs (A-C) and alot of experience in the family business with IT Systems.

 

Anyhow, on finding out that I was successful with the job, since it was a 60mile roundtrip to work every day, I decided i'd go and buy myself a car; aged 24, I thought i'd treat myself and purchased a Toyota MR2, since i'd only be commuting through the countryside to and from work; or so I thought.

 

On starting work, the manager was off for the first week and a half, but I was confronted by my supervisor who informed me that I needed Business Insurance on my vehicle so that they I can use it for my job.

 

A little shocked by this, I went home, read my Job Description, Person Specification and there was nothing at all about driving license, travelling or using vehicle for work.

I also checked up on my business insurance costs and it would cost me another £500 for this.

 

After a little asking around, the previous people who occupied my position said that they had to go all around North Yorkshire, down farm tracks, dirt tracks and so on, attending to Councillor's PCs and the various Council sites scattered throughout the North Yorkshire area. I was told that 400miles a fortnight was sometimes an occurrence.

 

Not only this, but I was to be expected to carry computing equipment (PCs, Monitors, Server racks, Projectors etc) in my car and basically be a delivery and fitter for all tasks.

 

This wasn't going to happen in my brand new sports car with only 2 seats and leather interior.

 

I told my supervisor the next day that it wasn't on the contract, there was flexibility clause or anything of the like on the contract to warrant this, and above all else, the running costs and damage to my car simply wasn't worth it. (Council paid 42p per mile, to run my car it cost 50p per mile, ignoring the supposed regular flat tyres from farm tracks and damage done by the hardware).

He simply said that he would need to talk it over when the manager got back off holiday.

 

Manager returns, has a meeting with me, in the office, infront of the other 8 or so people still at their desks, and informs me that he has to ask me to get business insurance and pay for it myself - in an effort to get it cheaper, he told me to lie to the insurance company and say that I wasn't transporting any hardware even though I would be, and if I couldn't get insurance, it was my choice.

After this meeting for several days the other people in the office hassled me to get business insurance, and asking what my problem was.

 

 

Then the next week, the manager has a meeting with me in private and says that, first of all, degrees are worthless - I should forget everything I learnt there and start from scratch as an empty slate. Secondly, he said he will have to let me go if I cannot get business insurance by the end of the month on my car (considering here also that I had not even had my first wage yet, of which Business Insurance would use £500 of, my car insurance and costs £370 and fuel costs £200 - so I would be paying for the priviledge of working for them).

 

I then simply stated that I cannot promise anything and the meeting was over.

 

A brief chat with some knowledgeable people said that I had to leave immediately as it was a breach of contract, and if I stayed, then I hadn't a leg to stand on. So I handed in my resignation the next day, and never went back.

 

I had contacted the council who actually lied and said that all this was mentioned in the interview (there was only 2 IT staff members in the interview, no HR representative) and that despite me being an ex-employee, would happily go through the grievance procedure for me, which could ultimately give me nothing but wasted time and a headache (or my old job back, which seems pointless after all this).

 

Since I had only been in the job for 3 weeks, I have been told that I have no legal leg to stand on - you need to be employed for over 1yr with the current employer to be able to use the legal system.

 

So what can I do, having been forced out of my job over a breach of contract by the Manager himself?

As I see it, new employees can be treated like dirt, and unless anything racial or descriminatory is said, with others as witnesses, you have no leg to stand on until you've worked their for 12 months.

 

 

Cheers.

 

I also have written records of all occurrences and discussions.

[Goldlady]

Unfortunately I think the advice you have been given is correct - that you cannot claim against them after being employed for such a short time. From what you have said you are best out of there anyway.

 

I have come across people in the dark and distant past who have an 'attitude' where qualifications are concerned. Whilst there is nothing wrong with working your way up the ladder with experience, there is equally nothing wrong with improving yourself by studying.

 

I would put the whole sorry situation behind you - after all it was you who resigned so at least you haven't got a blemish on your employment record. I hope you find work with someone who appreciates your skills. I am sure they were very wrong about the car but there is little you can do now IMHO.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, the problem you have with this situation is that you are very unlikely to get anyone from the company to admit to asking you to get business insurance and use your car for your job. It's a very unfortunate situation and a despicable way to treat a young graduate in his first job.

 

However, I think you just had bad luck with this employer and I'm sure you will very soon find a new job where both you and your qualifications are respected. It might be a good idea to register with quality recruitment agencies who specialise in finding jobs for graduates.

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[GZ2008]

Thanks for the replies - I agree it does seem futile attempting to get anywhere with it, and dwelling on it won't be productive. I just wanted some second opinions just to see if there was an recourse short of a civil court action (which is very costly and out of my league in financial terms).

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Unfortunately I think the advice you have been given is correct - that you cannot claim against them after being employed for such a short time.

 

Why do you think it must take 12 months to claim a breach of contract?

[Goldlady]

Tribunal claims was what I meant. As GZ says he (or she) could not afford to go down the civil route, although I would agree that there is a breach of contract it would cost quite a lot to pursue.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Tribunal claims was what I meant. As GZ says he (or she) could not afford to go down the civil route, although I would agree that there is a breach of contract it would cost quite a lot to pursue.

 

It would cost nothing or next to nothing.

 

An ET is free.

One need not even have ever been employed to begin an ET claim, for example, somebody may claim they were turned down for a job because of their colour, still a valid claim.

 

And a breach of contract claim can be heard at a County Court for about £40 or for nothing if unemployed.

 

The OP started a job and was then told to use his car and purchase insurance he has no personal need for which he was never contracted to do.

 

The employers have breached the contract by imposing demands on him that were not part of the original contract which, importantly, he seems to have in wrinting.

 

Sue them.

[GZ2008]

Hi Al,

 

Thanks for the very different approach - you say it would cost next-to-nothing? (I was told by family that it costs thousands and thousands and takes years!)

 

I hope that your side is the accurate one, for sure

 

The irony of this whole situation is that I was employed by the Council of North Yorkshire; a GOVERNMENT organisation (!!).

 

I have the contract, job description, person specification of my old job and of course the word processed transcripts of the various meetings I had.

 

I also, for argument's sake have in my possession other job descriptions and person specifications from other departments in the same council where it states clearly that 'Driving License' and 'Must be willing to use own vehicle for work' as part of the contract.

 

When I told my mum about this situation, she said that I wouldn't be able to get anywhere - they'd merely offer me my old job back knowing full well that I would go along with that, after all this.

 

You say I could sue them? Where can I find out more information about this route of action please?

 

It's worth pointing out that I have in writing only one example of reference to Business Insurance on my vehicle (email when I got the job asking me to get business insurance on my vehicle), all other occasions were verbally done.

[hanzo]

You took the wrong job. Go and get one more suited to your qualifications. Don't get caught up in litigation for the sake of 3 weeks.

[Barbara Ann]

If you wish to pursue some employment law firms do no win no fee work.Just google no win no fee.

[crh]

 

 

 

Then the next week, the manager has a meeting with me in private and says that, first of all, degrees are worthless - I should forget everything I learnt there and start from scratch as an empty slate. .

 

 

 

There is a school of thought that some people subscribe too in the IT industry that ICT degree's arent as good as the vendor specific qualifications you can get say like a cisco CCNA or a Microsoft MCSE. From a employers point of view its easier to employ someone in a support role with a MCSE than a fresh faced graduated as they would have to then train the graduate in the technical in's and outs of supporting MS systems or cisco

 

To be honest your manager was out of line to say degree's are worthless as from being on a degree course myself on software engineering in the past they are very good in giving you a grounding in ICT but dont go into the technical detail on a platform or system like a CCNA or MCSE would do.

 

I think you'd be much better off trying to get on a graduate recruitment scheme with a proper tech company rather than a mickey mouse council operation also the council is hardly the zenith of IT you where probably wasted there anyway

[GZ2008]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I've contacted 2 law firms who run 'no win, no fee' offers for their services, so i'll see what they will say.

As I imagine it, I think alot of them will be put off by the fact that they can't do their usual law breachs (which require 12months min work), but we will see what comes of this.

 

The problem regarding jobs is that there are only 3 places worth working for in my area - Police, University of Teesside and the Council; and all 3 of them have no jobs available, which was why I had to look to the next district for jobs in IT.

 

The failing of this job over this matter has really messed up my longterm plans (My car finance, insurance etc) and I would also like a sense of closure to it all instead of just pushing it to the back of my mind knowing that they tried it on, and ultimately forced me out of my job.

[GZ2008]

Just to keep you all posted...

 

I've visited the Citizen's Advice Bureau who gave me a local Employment Law Solicitor (which is different to Contract Law).

 

He told me that I can only make a claim of the notice period I would have been required to work (around £1500). He obviously said he cannot pursue a Constructive Dismissal, but the Repudiatory Breach of Contract is what entitles me to that aforementioned sum.

 

He said that since it's a tribunal they don't offer their No Win No Fee services for it, so it would cost more in Solicitor fees than I would actually reap back, therefore they couldn't do it, unless I really wanted to.

 

He did confirm that it was a terrible way to treat a graduate, and that there was a Repudiatory Breach, and that I should be able to sort it out with the Council directly, before considering an Employment Tribunal.

[bed32]

You can always represent yourself, the tribunals are used to people not having legal representation and they do their best to help.

 

This case is comparatively straightforward so you should be able to do it yourself, and it seems likely that if you start proceedings the council will compromise anyway - they aren't going to want to go to the trouble and expense of contesting a £1500 tribunal claim.

[GZ2008]

I figure that is what I will do if it gets to that stage. The legal side of things is worth pointing out however, since it's always an option for me if they start to play unfairly.

[GZ2008]

A letter has been compiled and sent in, basically saying that if they do not want me to take it further (inferring legal costs) and also specifically stating the media (I have an aunt who is the editor of a national newspaper) that they should pay the 1 month's notice period that I am entitled to.

 

I'm not sure how I think it will be handled; I imagine it will go down the route of them saying 'get lost' or ignoring it. Although if they have any sense, employing a solicitor will push them even more out of pocket.

[Goldlady]

I hope that the letter also asked for confirmation that you would be given a satisfactory reference for future employment.

 

Let us know what happens. Best of luck.

[GZ2008]

The wording of the letter wasn't the sort of nice reference request - far more official.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

A letter has been compiled and sent in, basically saying that if they do not want me to take it further (inferring legal costs) and also specifically stating the media (I have an aunt who is the editor of a national newspaper) that they should pay the 1 month's notice period that I am entitled to.

 

I'm not sure how I think it will be handled; I imagine it will go down the route of them saying 'get lost' or ignoring it. Although if they have any sense, employing a solicitor will push them even more out of pocket.

 

I wouldn't have advocated 'threatening' them with the media. I'm not too sure how an ET/court would view that.

 

And I believe legal costs are simply offset by local government dept's in situations like this so costs for them are unimportant. In any case, the taxpayer pays it.

 

Good luck but I hope you haven't blown it.

[GZ2008]

It was actually a member of family in the police who worded the letter for me. The council won't care about costs, but I know firsthand that they care about their public image. Perhaps it shouldn't have been said, but they don't know what i'd actually approach the media about.

 

It could be anything ranging from commenting about 1yr for Employment Law to apply through to contractual law criticisms.

 

PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL

 

Dear **

 

Without Prejudice

 

As you are aware, I have obtained legal advice from employment solicitors regarding the events that led to my interview, employment and subsequent resignation from the position of ** within ** Council.

 

As a result of this advice and collated evidence, I intend to institute civil proceedings against ** Council for a repudiatory breach of contract and to claim damages against the council for the one month notice period described in the contract of employment, which is my legal entitlement in contractual law.

 

The sum of damages which I am entitled to is: £1391.96 (based upon the gross annual salary of £16703.55 with 3% salary shift).

 

At this stage, I have also contacted my local Member of Parliament, who has provided advice and support.

 

I have not yet approached the press or media about the council’s poor conduct in this matter.

 

I am willing to bring this matter to conclusion providing the aforementioned sum of damages are paid within a 28 day period from the date of this letter.

 

If you are unable or unwilling to comply with my request, then I will issue proceedings against the council without further communication, and will make subsequent application to the court to recover personal and legal expenses.

 

I do feel seriously aggrieved by the actions of the council in the way that I have been treated and I will bring this matter to the attention of the national press if this case is not resolved within 28 days.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours sincerely,

[GZ2008]

Just to put a sense of closure on the issue, I received a letter from my employer today, admitting no liability, but accepting the terms and paying me in full the amount specified above!

 

Thanks all for your help and advice

[Barbara Ann]

Good result. Hope you get another job soon that treats you better than this one.

[Goldlady]

So pleased to hear you have that one sorted. And best of luck for the future.

[GZ2008]

Thanks - I had my first (since the previous job ended) interview yesterday; a full day of tests, interviews, tours and meetings. Ironically I was the only candidate with a degree, and was the second oldest of the total of 4 people who were shortlisted.

I'm sat here, 2 days later, still awaiting a return-call, so chances are that I didn't get the job.

 

Back to the grind stone...

[Barbara Ann]

Still early days. Are you applying for lots of jobs?