Saxon v Halifax

[saxon]

Hello, I have to start by saying this is a terrific site, it's such a boost to all of us with problems.

My partner and I are both on incapacity benefits, he is disabled. While I was working things were ok, not great but ok. When I was made redundant I did my best to reduce outgoings, but ended up with collection agencies wanting money.

In order to pay everyone a little bit, I have been paying them and household bills by debit card in order to not be charged.

However some bills won't accept this method, so DDs were set up.

If I have been short by only a little the bank sometimes paid them sometimes did not, so I was charged. This I thought was a fair cop.

Ohh how wrong I was, after finding this site I am filled with excitement for the first time in oooh ages.

A fortnight ago, I decided I would go for it.

Last Friday recieved a letter from the Halifax stating that

Your account is currently in a debit balance contrary to the terms and conditions blah blah blah,

If the action required is taken BEFORE THE DATE SHown no further action will be takenin respect of the breach ( which is the 10th July)

If you do not take the action required by this notice before the date shown then the further action set out below may be taken against you.

1 With effect from the date shown we close your account and demand paymentof any amount you owe us on your account and

2 we may take legal proceedings against you and/or instruct a DCA to recover any amount.

With this I saw red as they get the benefits before I do, so went to the job centre plus to change payment details, where they informed me of the agreement between the banks and the Government that they wouldn't take charges from peoples benefits.

So, once that was completed I phoned the bank and was informed that they have to charge for non payment of direct debits etc, I had agreed to this and that I should manage my account better by cancelling the Direct Debits.

I responded sayin that is what I have been doing, could she not see that.

I asked her if the charges could be removed as there was an agreement between the banks and the government and she said she knew nothing of this.

Now I'm really annoyed, not a wise thing to make me, boy is that a kick up the rectum for me.

What's really bugging me is, my account cannot go into the red in theory, that this letter is dated the 26th June and on the 27th they allow a debit card payment to go through, making me more in debt to them.

Now my account is for information only, it has been frozen.

Any advice please would be welcome.

the Data Protection letter is already to go later today, I am so mad, but had to wait till we got paid again to go forward.

Sorry for the war and peace story, future posts won't be so long.

Grateful thanks for this site being here.

[reload]

Hi saxon,

 

I think your course of action should be to get in touch with the person at the jobcentre+ you spoke to, and find out the exact statutes and legal details about the agreement between the banks and Government. Then you can phone Halifax bank and throw these details straight at them.

 

One thing you may want to consider doing is opening up a 'parachute' account, such as a Natwest Step account - very simple and straightforward, a 'free' account that has no monthly service charge etc - usually quite quick to set up too, and comes with a visa electron/solo card, can arrange DDs and payments via internet banking, etc. You can then get your disability benefits paid in to this seperate account and wave two fingers at Halifax while you take them to the cleaners over their penalty charges

[saxon]

Thanks Reload, have been scouring these boards, (They must be the cleanest on the web with the amount that everyone seems to do ) went to Nat West at lunchtime and did just what you have suggested and opened a Step Account. As for the DWP. the gentleman couldn't give me details but they are on this site somewhere, I had read about it before I recieved the letter, so the man in DWP was just confirming it. I am going now to try and find it again though.

 

I hope it's not too long now before you get your money from Lloyds just read in your sig full settlement offered, seeing that is such an incentive.

 

Will come back again when on-line tracking tells me they've recieved the SAR letter.

 

Saxon

[jonni2bad]

Hi Saxon - welcome aboard.

 

If you do find specific details about this matter, please let us know. I was under the impression that the Post Office account was possibly developed with this in mind, rather than general bank accounts. However, if it is true then we could make use of it here.

 

Have you managed to get all of your income streams moved in time? If so, then great, we can deal with amounts owed to Halifax later.

 

If not, you might wish to consider the Right of Appropriation. It gives the account holder the right to tell the bank what they would like to happen with any individual payments coming in. Not every bank employee will be aware of it, or what to do with the request, but it has worked.

 

If there is still any money going in that you would like access to (rather than being eaten by charges), let me know.

[saxon]

Hello Jonni2bad, I am following your case very closely, it is so encouraging.

Anyway this has taken me a while but

Benefits and bank arrestment in Scotland | free legal help from Govan Law Centre, Glasgow, UK

 

this is the Goven website and it's Scottish law but can we adapt it to the rest of Britain?

This isn't what I had read, but it's a start.

 

Ps. good luck with the rest of your case.

[jonni2bad]

I'm about to get further advice on that one - it could well be the Scottish equivalent of the RoA. Scottish Law and English Law seem to have too many differences though, so I doubt this exact one will have uses on this side of the border.

[saxon]

Hello, just an update, today have finally had acknowledgement of the DPA, a standard letter that has been posted many times on these threads.

Time out for the delivery of statements is 16th August.

 

I have managed to speak to the gentleman at the job centre again, he said that there were talks but nothing as far as he knows was actually put in writing, however my MP is coming to our village next Friday, so I thought I could speak to him or hand him a letter, unfortunitly, my letter writing leaves a lot to be desired. If anyone knows how to word such a letter I would be grateful, I write as I speak which comes out muddled.

[jonni2bad]

Put it here for us, and we can help if required.

[saxon]

Hello again, just an update.

Recieved my bank statements for the whole of my banking history with the Halifax. (Boy am I dissapointed, have managed my account better that I had imagined) Total charges owing £1441.26 inc. £4.26 in interest. (not the 8%)

So I will be be more than happy to donate to this fantastic site.

Also my claim is for 8 years worth of charges, they have til the 11th August to respond before LBA.

 

Johnni2bad- with regard the benefits and charges, I wrote adapted the letter to your MP template, handed it to him, and he doesn't know of this, however

 

I did find reference on page 2 of vampra's thread `carer incurring excessive fees @ natwest' then someone relates to Social Security Administration Act 1992.

[jonni2bad]

Be aware that the bank will definitely contest the charges beyond 6 years, but this doesn't mean they are right.

 

If you let the case proceed to court (if necessary) then the 6 years part will be treated separately and leave only the remaining 2 years as being contested, so effectively you are no worse off.

 

When you have their defence, let us see it. Best of luck!

[woozie]

i'm right behind you saxon

 

good luck

[saxon]

I have today received this responce from the Halifax

 

I write in response to your recent letter regarding the above account. Naturally I am concerned that you have found cause for complaint and at the outset please accept my apologies for any inconveniance this matter may have caused you.

 

I appreciate your concerns about the above account and note that you are aware of the OFT's statement published in April regarding default charges. We disagree with the legal analysis of default outlined in the OFT's statement, but are at this time working in conjunction with the OFT. Although they believe charges are to be no higher than £12.00, there has not been any legislation which could force us to reduce our chargeson our bank account products at this time.

 

However, the group have confirmed that it will be reducing default fees accross it's credit card product range to £12.00 from the 1st August 2006.

 

Unfortunatly it is not possible to provide you with a breakdown of how we arrive at the level of our charges as it is an internal policy and is different for each type of charge. However, please accept my assurance that our charges on our bank acounts/credit cards are a genuine pre-estimate of costs that generally arise when customers breach their agreements with us. They cannot take into account the individual circumstances of each particular case. In the circumstances we do not agree with you that they represent an unlawful penelty or unfair term under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations.

 

It is the customer's responsibility to ensure funds are available to cover direct debit/standing orders, cheque payments and also charges due to be debited from their account. We give an adequate notification period of up to 28 days to allow you time to make provision for pending charges and also advise that you will recieve further charges if your account is not conducted in line with terms and conditions.

 

I have as a gesture of goodwill I have refunded £28.00 worth of charges due from your account to avoid escalation of your balance at this time. I am unfortunitly unable to offer you a full refund of all the charges debited from your account over the past eight years.

 

I am sorry that this letter may not provide you with the responce you are seeking however I trust this clarifies matters for you.

 

You will find enclosed a copy of our leaflet explaining our complaints procedeures.

 

Should any of your concerns remain unresolved please let me know what you'd like me to do to put matters right. We are keen to resolve your concerns, if we are unable to do so we'll provide you with details of how to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service for assisstance. If I do not hear from you within the next eight weeks I will assume you are satisfied with our responce to your letter.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Mark Slinger

Customer Care Manager

Retail Bank Collections

 

 

So do I now send the LBA or wait for the 14 days to end?

 

I like the way they say they give up to 28 days notice of the charges being applied, I get 7 days from date on letter.

Also so far no refund of £28.00 and no charges except interest are due, my charges have also been £39.00 each time! so does that mean there will be no refund of £28.00

[jonni2bad]

Wait for the 14 days. Until you are sure that some money has been refunded, keep it in your claim.

[saxon]

hello again, just to update my thread,

today I sent via special delivery the LBA,

I wasn't refunded £28.00 as stated in their letter, they refunded/reversed a £39.00 charge from 6th july 2006. every little helps.

 

so roll on 31st August to go to court and make a claim.

 

will keep you posted, 2nd off last hurdle now passed, money come home.

[saxon]

Hi, another update (mainly for Jonni2bad) regarding my MP.

 

I recieved a response from him this morning

 

Thank you for your recent letter regarding disproportionate penelty charges levied by UK banks. My apologies for the delay in responding.

 

I can appreciate your concerns and have written, on your behalf, to Ed Balls MP, the Economic Secretary to HM Treasury. Mr Balls is the government Minister responsible for the banking industry, and I have asked him to look into your concerns.

 

I shall of course inform you of the Minister's response as soon as I recieve it.

 

I hope this is of assistance.

 

Best wishes,

 

Yours sincerely

 

I didn't actually write to him, I spoke to him about this and he took notes regardin this. So I will post any other reply.

[jonni2bad]

Good, that's a couple of letter going to Mr. Balls over the past week...

[woozie]

good to see youre still marching on saxon i was feeling a little unsteady today but you inspired me again! ta

[saxon]

Hello everybody, still here.

 

No more word from the halifax, no offer of partial settlement, nowt, was looking forward to a little something from them,

 

So roll on Wednesday, County Court here I come, I WON'T be ignored, not by them anyway.

[saxon]

Well, I have had an offer of £450.00, but the lady said nooooo.

I went to the court today with an N1 and and exemption form for the fees, the nice lady at the court said she would check the exemption form and ring me if there was a problem.

 

So now my fingers are crossed, bye for now.

[woozie]

not long to go now saxon!! you guys deserve every penny back and you'll get it!!

 

woo X:oops:

[saxon]

On Monday, I recieved a letter from my MP saying that he had written to the CEO of th Halifax, he did not include a copy of his letter. (it's only took him 6 weeks)

Today I recieved a letter from the office of the chief executive, saying they are looking into it. (too late now, have filed at court)

 

Oh well better late than never I suppose!

[saxon]

Well, have finally done it, filed it and got the claim number, deemed served yesterday.

 

I can't believe a shy bairn lke me is taking somebody to court, thank you to all at this site for giving me a back bone.

[Guest bluecloud]

Only one thing left to do then.

 

Think about your balance increasing dramatically over the next couple of days.

 

Well done, not so shy bairn.

 

 

.

[saxon]

Hello, good and not so good news.

 

They have acknowledged to the County Court, and Purely on a commercial basis are willing to reimburse me 6 years fees, interest and court fees but are not accepting the 1st 2 years as they are saying they are statute barred, which equates to £298.90.

 

I have 7 days in which to respond.

 

Any advice or suggestions will be considered.

 

Thank you in advance.

[saxon]

sorry to be a pain but

 

anybody?