Mr Sharpman v Argos

[SharpmanTF1]

Ding Ding, Round 2.

 

Had a phone call from F.I.L (Fredricksons) the other day. As soon as they mentioned who they were I informed them that only communication will be dealt with in writing. They informed me that a letter was on its way.

 

2 days later - Friendly F.I.L popped thru letter box. Yep, ARGOS have passed it on to these ppl.

 

Any body got a suitable letter that I could throw their way, bearing in mind Moorcroft have already admitted that they cannot lay their hands on a CCA.

 

sharpman

[steven4064]

Send them a CCA request

[creditcardmug]

You need the bemused letter now..its on my other PC, bump the thread later to remind me, and ill post it up.

[SharpmanTF1]

bump for ccm

[creditcardmug]

Here is the bemused letter, edit to suit,

 

Frederickson International Ltd

P.O. Box 260

Weybridge

Surrey

KT13 0YH

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Your ref xxxxxxxxx

Further to your letter of 6th November 2008,i must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the Argos Card Services and has been since 8th January 2008.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998.

 

My letter to Argos Card Services dated 4/2/08 outlined the fact that the documents they had sent to me do not conform to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and to date I have received nothing further to remedy this.

I am also awaiting a full response to a Subject Access Request.

Also I have had no Notice of Assignment from Argos Card Services to yourselves.

 

As Argos Card Services are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, and OFT Collection Guidelines, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to Argos Card Services for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Frederickson International Ltd cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

If Frederickson International Ltd chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfullly

[SharpmanTF1]

sent the above 'bemused letter' to FIL this morning.

 

Let's see what the little darlings come back with.

[SharpmanTF1]

Ok, after several attempts to phone me (which I quickly stated in writing only)

 

They replied to the bemused letter with a 'this debt will not go away' letter with options to call them or using a payment card at several locations to make payments.

 

As yet no threatening action.

 

Guess i'll have to do a fresh CCA to these morons -

 

They obviously can't read.

 

i'll keep you posted.

 

Sharpman.

[SharpmanTF1]

Good news -

 

Friendly Fred Int Ltd have replied to my bemused letter.

 

We Have Referred the matter to our client and will revert to you as soon as we are in reciept of instructions. In the mean time account is on hold.

 

guess some one can read at F.I.L.

 

Who's the next DCA on the list that ARGOS use? any one?

 

Sharpman

[creditcardmug]

They are already close to scrapping the bottom of the barrel with freds, but other cretins such as lowell/macenzie hall spring to mind as possibilities.

 

nothing further has happened with mine since freds sent it back to them.

[Supercoley1]

I'm watching your thread closely as I have an Argos/moorcroft issue in that when I got into trouble I contacted Argos and setup a standing order. Over the phone they gave me the incorrect account number and therefore I got the moorcroft calls where I refused to give my personal data to someone whom I didn't recognise. Argos have defaulted me for not paying and I have supplied them with bank statements showing the payments. I got the intended litigation letter but I am quite happy to pay what I owe. Would rather pay it to Argos than moorcroft though and of course I want the default removed as I didn't default. lol

 

Hope you have success here and I shall follow the thread with interest.

 

AC

[Chris1933]

Just a thought, can Mr Sharpman bring a claim against Argos due to the expence of having to write and send letters to DCA's when Argos are in breach.

 

Obviuosly he can report them to OFT but that never seems to do anything, but clearly Argos are acting unlawfully and Mr Sharpman has incurred expences defending his position.

 

I'm thinking claim all postal costs back and £9.00ph for letters sent . . . would this wash??? if it did it certainly would stop all the template letters because it would cost Argos over £10.00 a time everytime the OP responded to them whilst they are in breach.

 

Don't rip me to shreads if this is a stupid idea, if it isn't within the law it cetainly bloody should be:D

[Supercoley1]

If sending letters registered etc then the post office write the postcode on the receipts. These count as expenses due to Argos' error IMO. I am certainly claiming these costs from my claim against bmi!!! IME any costs incurred that are backed up by receipts are very easy to claim back. Theoretical things like hardship etc are harder to get.

 

In my case and I assume in Mr Sharpmans Argos never sent me a notification they had passed the debt onto a DCA and Argos tell me that they have sold the debt to Moorcroft whereas Moorcroft say they are just handling the debt on Argos' behalf so I don't know who's debt it is. lol. Neither will send me a letter of assignment because they both say it is the other party that owns the debt!!!

 

AC

[creditcardmug]

Theres nothing stopping you claiming your expenses from argos, but they wont pay it, then you have to go down the road of suing them for it.

 

If anyone wants to give it a go let me know as id be interested to follow the thread.

 

Moorcroft don't buy debts in my experience, they merely act as DCAs, and pretty poor ones too.

[SharpmanTF1]

Ok, Update ......

Poor old fred are realy confused, the little darlings..... got a letter from them yesterday.

 

....please find enclosed account documents, provided by our client , as requested ......

 

Enclosed in the letter was a wad of statements. Clearly no sign of the CCA.

 

They expected this to be sufficient. even after I explained about moorcroft.

 

I've now sent a CCA request to their head office in London to see if they can put up or pass it back.

 

fingers crossed ......

 

sharpman

[SharpmanTF1]

Update ........

it's now november 2009 and after several harrasing phone calls and text messages from a company called JBDR (never heard of them until now).

When i answered one of the calls I explained 'everything in writing' 2but we've already written to you with no response" (no mail from anybody of that name recieved)

I could not get out of them what the debt was for.

These calls and text messages have been going on for several months.

 

finally I get a letter in the post the other day from a company called 'Asset Collections & Investigations Ltd. I understand, from the CCA Register that they are a company associated with JBDR.

 

The letter is headed IMPORTANT

It mentions that they are acting on behalf of ARG financial services Never heard of them ( LOL ) i'm assuming they mean argos. There is no argos account No mentioned anywhere in the letter.

 

It goes along the lines of .... in an attempt to avoid legal costs being incurred .......the above named client has given permission to negotiate the balance .....proposals of 60% ..... over 3 instalments etc etc etc.

.....please telephone to discuss how you may benefit......

 

Any body had dealings with these people and what their tactics are likely to be.

 

Am I right to assume that because this has gone through 2 dca's already with out a proper response from argos in regards to a CCA request (computer generated cut n paste Credit agreement, no personal details attached to documents to indicate that the document even related to me. that argos are clutching at straws with another DCA.

 

CCA request off in the post in morning.

[SharpmanTF1]

Ok, Update.

Its 16 December 2009. The time frame for providing document as requested from jbdr has been and looooong gone. Have had no correspondence from them since i sent the letter, not even an aknowledgment that they have recieved it and are attempting to obtain the document.

 

Now here comes the interesting part.

 

I recieved a letter in the post from Hillesden securities Ltd. Trading as Direct Legal & Collections (DLC)

 

They inform me that the aledged debt has been assigned to them. The tell me that Argos no longer own the account and that it is now owned by DLC.

 

In the same envelope there is a letter Argos card services Informing me that the account has been assigned to dlc and that Argos no longer have an interest in the aledged debt.

 

So, from what I can understand from this Argos have 'sold' the account to DLC. Also from this I am guessing that they cannot lay their hands on the correct documentation to prove either way that this aledged debt exists llegally.

 

as I have already sent a cca request to JBDR, do I need to send another CCA request to DLC (hillesden securities)?

 

any views appreciated.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, you need to send a letter to Hillsden/DLC advising them that you are awaiting a response to your CCA letter to JBDR (enclose a copy of that letter). Send by recorded delivery ! and keep a copy. DLC are a nasty bunch and can be difficult to deal with, they have a habit of going stright to court for CCJ and then a charging order if they can.

 

If you need help with the letter let me know, I've got one somewhere that I did for someone else.

 

Ell-enn

[SharpmanTF1]

Thanks Ell-enn for the response.

 

I will take your advice and so in morning ..... as soon as i can find the damn letter

 

(Note to self - really need to get on top of filing).

[jellybabe]

sorry for hijacking...am in a pickle with Moorcroft regarding a CCA for an argos card. Just had a debt collector calling on my door, scared the hell out of me....but told him to go otherwise i call the police.

Anyway...if anyone could give any advice please, here is my thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/store-cards/148011-jellybabe-argos-hubbys-account.html

Am scared and don't know what to do now???

Sorry again for intruding.

jellybabe

[Zaraphin]

Hi SharpmanTF1 and others

 

Your Argos scenario is very similar to mine....Hadn't heard from Argos for months then 6th January 2010 (Happy New Year Post) a letter from Direct Legal Collection (dlc) with a copy of a letter from Agros saying that they have assigned this debt to dlc......however still haven't received a CCa only a copy of application form which you can see from my thread Re: Argos.

 

Argos CCA - is it enforceable.(Not quite sure how to put a link into it) but I'msure if you put it in the search area above it should come up.

 

I have also heard that dlc can be a tough cookie and it is causing me a bit of concern now. I have written to them at the begining of January 2010 but no reply yettttttt.

 

I'll keep you all posted on my venture with dlc....

 

Scott

[SharpmanTF1]

Update,

No reply to a CCA request sent out to JBDR. That was waaaaaaay back in November last year.

 

Decided to hit DLC with the info and see if they can either put up or shut up.

 

Alleged debt was sold to DLC back in november last year, the date that the letter from jbdr was dated.

 

I then get a letter, a month later from dlc.

 

Soooo, it's now in the hands of dlc to get the CCA if they can. Argos, I assume have lost the document as I have been trying to get one out of them since beginning 2008. all They produce is a computer generated concoction of what they say is the CCA. But, from other threads, I see there have been actual documents produced, so I am assuming by this that Argos cannot produce the goods, or they would have by now. it has been through 5 DCAs although 3 of them are related in some way.

 

Letter to DLC in post AM.

[SharpmanTF1]

update,

Recieved letter from hillesden securities

 

hillesden securities scrubbed 1.pdf

 

hillesden securities scrbbed 2.pdf

 

in it they mention The case Mcguffick V RBS.

 

Judge stated that bringing of prcoceedings is not enforcment ......

it follows that the demanding of payment is a step taken prior to proceedings and therefore not considered enforcement ......

 

Whilst may not be able to enforce agreement until documentation is provided, ..... the industry guidance from the credit services association states that the agreement has not been made illegal or void due to the OC failure to provide requested documentation at this time.

 

in view of above we're still gonna hunt you down and get yer dosh, even if we don't have a document that says we're entitled to hunt you down.

 

Any one have a view on the Mcguffick v RBS case mentioned and how that affects non production of correct documentation.

[SharpmanTF1]

Update ... 09052010

 

Recieved letter from DLC on 28th April Informing me that they have " withdrawn the account from The DCA who was dealing with the account ...."

 

Please contact us with your proposals to pay .......

 

Then recieved a letter on 05th May 2010 from DLC attached was a copy of a statement from the aleged argos account.

 

Not a 'True Copy' of the CCA as requested.

 

Can these Guys not read plain english ......

 

Has anybody got any suggestions for a strongly worded Letter to press them for a 'true copy' of the CCA.

 

Thanks

 

Sharpman.

[SharpmanTF1]

gentle bump