CCA copy document regualtions 1983 / 1557

[jpf104]

Hi all I need some clarification on the above regulations. Here's my question:

 

CCA'd NatWest and they have responded with a obvious computer generated document with interest rates etc and its clearly an "example" of what the original agreement may have included, they also state:

 

"When responding to requests made under Section 77, the Bank may provide you with a "true copy" of your agreement in accordance with Regulation 3(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (the "Regulations"). This means that under Section 77, there is no obligation for the Bank to provide you with a copy of the original agreement bearing your signature. A "true copy" does not need to contain any personal information relating to you as the debtor (including your name and address -although we often include this for convenience) nor does it need to include a signature box, any signature or dates of signature."

 

Having read the above regulations can someone give me a layman’s guide? (especially section 3).

 

As I understand - CCA requests can only be fulfilled if the OC sends a copy of the original agreement (whether it conforms to the act is another issue!) but it must be a copy of the original. NatWest seem to be under the impression that a computer generated (printed last week) 'amalgam' will suffice.

 

Comments greatly appreciated!

[Curlyben]

In other words they can't find the original agreement.

 

As you are no doubt aware the The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) is only applicable in conjunction with The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations) 1983 (SI 1983/1569) and are only applicable to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 58,62,63,63 and 64. My request is a statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 77/78 and therefore the copy of the credit agreement requested must be a true copy of the fully executed agreement.

[jpf104]

Thanks Curlyben great advice as ever!

 

Are you saying then:

They do not understand the Regulations OR

Are deliberatley trying to mislead me to cover their backs because an agreement does not exist

 

Would you therefore suggest that I reply by stating that I do not acknowledge the alleged debt because no executed agreement has been provided, and also incorporate your above quotation?

[Curlyben]

Are deliberatley trying to mislead me to cover their backs because an agreement does not exist

 

That's my feeling.

 

Now I would hold fire on any response for the moment until they demand payment.

[jpf104]

Thanks Curlyben

 

I'll post again when that scenario arises.

[jpf104]

They are now demanding full payment via their DCA. How do you think I should respond?

[Curlyben]

Oh well, that's kind of par for the course I'm afraid.

 

So throw this at them:

 

Formal Complaint

Letter before Action

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

 

[jpf104]

Thanks CB useful stuff as ever. Lets see what happens next!!

[FANTASY CHARGES]

any update ?

[seabro]

In other words they can't find the original agreement.

 

 

Hi CB,

 

I would be very grateful to you if you could let me (us) know where it is written that the 1983 / 1557 regulations "only applicable to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 58,62,63,63 and 64".

 

Where does it say s77/78 are immune from these regs?

 

Thanks alot for your help.

[Enron]

What did they send you with regard to the original CCA request, a copy of recent Terms & Conditions, or a copy of the original Terms & Conditions etc?

 

True they can exclude a number of items when providing a copy of the executed agreement including signature boxes, signature and personal details under the regulations, but you would have to ask yourself why they would go to all the trouble of not simply providing you with a copy of your original executed agreement.

 

I smell something here, possibly they dont have the agreement any longer or its unenforceable. That said there is also the possability that it could turn up.

 

There is always the route of going down the CPR31.16 request route, this has to be done through a court order - to which the creditor would have to comply by providing full copies of the specific documents you want. Can provide you details of this if you want.

 

I would also suggest having a word with paulwalton who has been doing alot of work regarding CCA requests.

[citizenB]

Or you could have a read of the following thread and use the method that PT has suggested.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[AA99]

What did they send you with regard to the original CCA request, a copy of recent Terms & Conditions, or a copy of the original Terms & Conditions etc?

 

True they can exclude a number of items when providing a copy of the executed agreement including signature boxes, signature and personal details under the regulations, but you would have to ask yourself why they would go to all the trouble of not simply providing you with a copy of your original executed agreement.

 

I smell something here, possibly they dont have the agreement any longer or its unenforceable. That said there is also the possability that it could turn up.

 

There is always the route of going down the CPR31.16 request route, this has to be done through a court order - to which the creditor would have to comply by providing full copies of the specific documents you want. Can provide you details of this if you want.

 

I would also suggest having a word with paulwalton who has been doing alot of work regarding CCA requests.

 

Enron, I thought this CPR31 could be done prior to going to court aswell, ie. in order to prepare for court