Scorterooney V First Credit....help required please **WON**

[scorterooney]

HI all, Today i recieved a County Court form regarding a debt i have that is handled by First Credit so I would appreciate any advice and help on what to do next and the steps i need to take.

 

Firstly ill give you a little back ground info :

 

Debt is for £2460.10 and it was originally owed to Loyds TSB.

I have been in conversation with FIRST CREDIT regarding the debt since approx Oct 2006.

In this time the general thing has been FC send me a letter demanding full amount, I send them a letter saying I cant afford full amount along with a breakdown of my incomings and out goings and offer them X amount per month. They then refuse what i have offered and ask for more. this went on for months alongside threating and abusive phone calls and i have kept all letters and transcripts of phoe calls etc.

on 9th July last year i recieved a STATUTORY DEMAND from LCS ( First credit legal dept) - I did not acknowledge it or act upon it and nothing ever came of it so i suspect that it was not the real deal ( though do not know this for sure).

I then heard nothing untill the Northampton County Court claim form turned up on my doorstep this morning giving me 14 days to reply etc.

 

From day one i have made attempts to come to an arrangement with First Credit - i have sent them cheques which they have not cashed, i have made offers which they have not accepted and i have been as reasonable as i could be whilst they shouted down the phone at me. I do np

ot dispute that i owe the cash and would like to pay it - ONLY i would like to pay it off at a rate that i affordable to me ( obviously) and therefore im quite happy to turn up a the court to see what a judge has to say about First Credits conduct and for him to hopefully set an affordable repayment plan.

 

SO anyway - hope thats understandable and if you want to know anything else then just ask - What do i do next ?

 

Thanks in advance, Dave

[mrmarmite]

bank account credit card or loan?????????????

[mrmarmite]

the 1st thing to do anyway is send papers back to court and defend it. if you have letters of refusal from FC then you are in fairly good shape because you made best offer and you provided evidence to that extend

 

soz, hello and welcome to CAG

[scorterooney]

Bank account / Credit Card or Loan - If im honest im not 100 % sure though i believe its my old credit card

 

Re replying and defending - What should i be writing ? Im sorry that thats vague but do i just write honestly on it - ie "Yep i believe i owe the money but despite my best efforts to come to an arrangement to repay it FC wont play ball and are being pains in the ass" ? or should i take a different approach ?

 

How do i go about getting it all moved from Northampton to my local court ?

 

Should i delay for time and ask for the original credit agreements and if i do how will that effect things ? Or should i just concentrate on my "defence"

 

Cheers, dave

[mrmarmite]

you got it, write down that you do not beleive you owe this debt and request the claimant provied

1, deed of assignment

2, an EXECUTED credit agreement, make sure u use work executed,

 

as court action already started you wont have time to go down the proper route for a CCA request

 

if room CLEARLY point out that FC have been harassing you, you have been writing to them but they refuse to answer any letters.

 

this should put ball in FC court, hopefully they wont have an executed agreement, if not then debt unenforcable in court so judge will ORDER FC to provide 1 and set later hearing

[scorterooney]

Cheers Mr Marmite, much appreciated.

 

Reet ill get on with wording defence and sorting out my paper work and ill post a again in a bit

 

thanks so far

[mrmarmite]

ok, some others will be along later that will help more (including filling a defence when time)

 

well done for keeping ALL paper work and call info, you will need all of it!

[scorterooney]

just finished reading all the court papers properly and im not sure which direction to go now

 

I have been sent form N1CPC which is FC's claim form and then the N9 CPC response pack. The response pack gives me the following options:

 

*To admit all the money claimed and complete the admission form and return to First Credit

*To admit Part of the amount claimed and fill in the admission form and teh defence form and return to the court

*To Dispute the whole claim and fill in the defence form

*Or to complete the acknowledgement of service form if i need 28 days to repare my defence or wish to contest the courts jurisdiction ( what does this mean ?)

 

The problem i have is - YES i do owe the money ( or at the least i believe i do though i have had no other evidence than FC saying i owe it) and i would imagine my previous letters offering monthly amounts to clear the debt prove this. Therefore i cant see how i can complete the defence form but if i compelete the admission form then how can i push FC into allowing me to pay an affordable monthly amount.

 

What to do , what to do :? :?

 

In my next post ill type out a time line and rough outline of whats been said between first credit and myself so people can see exactly how its panned out

[mrmarmite]

go for dispute,

 

as said b4 they aproached you demanding money, the courts dont know that you have paid money.

 

FC has not provided you with any evidence that you do owe it.

 

 

need some 1 with more info in ere

[scorterooney]

Ok Then - Time line and rough outline of whats been discussed.

 

10/10/2006 - Letter from First Credit introducing themselves and telling me they have been assigned a loyds TSB debt of £2460.10 in my name and that i should contact them immediatly etc.

 

22/10/2006 - I reply with a payment proposal of £5 a month for 3 months and then i would review the monthly amount - i also sent them a statement of my accounts showing all incomings and out goings ( in short wife earns i dont due to child care and money is VERY tight)

 

24/10/2006 - letter from First Credit headed LEGAL PROCEEDINGS and stating that if i dont pay immediatly they will seize assets with a bailiff, charging order agianst property etc etc

 

26/10/2006 - Letter from First Credit headed OFFER REFUSED - we are unwilling to accept this offer as we do not consider it reasonable, oplease phone us etc etc

 

27/10/2006 - My reply explaining my financial position and offering £5 a month again - i also stated that others had accepted this offer, enclosed a statement of account, and expalined that if they accepted i cwould be able to clear teh debt quicker without extra charges being added etc.

 

1/11/2006 - Thanks for your recent communications, the contents of which have been noted - please call our office as a matter of urgency to discuss.

 

3/11/2006 - I phoned First Credit ( big mistake) and was told £30 was the least they would accept. I was also threatened with CCJ's, attachmet of property etc and told i would only recieve two more warning letters before a CCJ would be applied for - I apologised and said i could not afford £30 etc

 

4/11/2006 - wife took a message from first credit telephone call asking me to phone an individual ( i shant name names) to sort out a suitable repayment pln.

 

6/11/2006 - Phoned the individual at first credit but was put through to someone else. Exactly the same phone call as before - told only £30 would be suitable, threatened court action etc - ended teh phone call by asking to only be contacted via letter from now on

 

7/11/2006 - Letter from LCS ( First credits legal arm i think) telling me that unless full payment was made within 14 days they would issue proceedings against me in county court.

 

9/11/2006 - My reply , yet again explaining how skint i was and that i wanted to pay something to start the ball rolliing etc. I also put in a paragraph lifted from this site regarding the overiding objectives of the new civil procedures rules and how the court will expect both parties to have acted reasonably in trying to avoid the neccesity for starting proceedings etc

 

13/11/2006 - OFFER REFUSED letter from first credit

 

14/11/2006 - letter from First credit stating they would accept a full and final payment of £1900

 

14/11/ 2006 onwards - seal threating phonecalls, was called abusive names by first credit staff, was shouted at down the phone ( so loud that a mate in the same room heard the whole conversation, was called irresponsible for not wanting to sort this out etc. Some of the time i simply put the telephone outside on teh doorstep and left them ranting - other times i switched it off immediatly. I also asked how much for a full and final settlement (with the thought of borriwng the money just so o could get rid of the first credit hassle)

 

5/12/2006 - Letter from first credit introducing the DEBT HELP TEAM and asking if i hd considered a re mortaging etc

 

28/12/2006 ( after one too many abusive phone calls) Letter to first credit upping my offer to £15 a month (i got a part time job) and informing in writing that i do not wish to be contacted by telephone and that i would view telephone contact as harrassment etc etc - i also included a £15 cheque to show williing

 

11/01/2007 - OFFER REFUSED letter from first credit

 

23/02/2007 - after even more abusive calls - letter to first credit again offering £15 and and spelling out the Administration of justice act 1970 - section 40 ( ie they commit an offence if they bully or harrass me) - i also included a list of behaviour by first credit staff which i believed constituted harrassment.

 

27/02/2007 - letter form first credit - IMPORTANT NOTIFICATION - we have recently obtained office copy entries from teh land registry and note that you own / jointly own your property. As a result of this we are now passing your account to our solicitors to secure a CCJ against you and enforce this by way of a final charging order. Should we succed in obtaining a charging order we will give serious cosideration to applying to the court for an order of sale of your property , ETC etc etc

 

1/3/2007 - OFFER REFUSED letter from first credit

 

9/7/2007 - I recieve a statury demand notice from LCS and the accompnying letter ask me to phone first credit within 7 days to discuss my proposals for repayment

 

I ignored this as i did not believe it was genuine ( it may of been though but nevertheless nothing ever came of it)

 

8/11/2007 - another letter from LCS threatening CCJ and stating interest etc will be added

 

8/1/2008 - Claim form recieved from northampton court 1st Credit V me

 

So there ya go - bit of a read and if you stuck with it - THANKS but thats where im at now.

 

I would like the chance to see a judge and show him what first credit have been up to - i would like the chance for the judge to see my statement of accounts and decide if my offer is unreasonable - just not sure how to go a bout it

 

dave

[scorterooney]

oh and the £15 cheque i sent them on the 28/12/2006 was never cashed

[mrmarmite]

they don't have an CCA. they been threatening you for over a year and done nothing about it,

 

you got a lot of muscle in that lot. give ya self a gold star,

 

ok, defend (28 day one) , send CCA off ASAP (tommorrow) to FC.

 

you have taken every oppertunity and provided a full income expenditure and FC has refused (you have wrtten evidence of this)

i can point you in right direction but still need some 1 that can help more than I can

[B3rty]

Hi don’t worry…read my thread here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/118878-help-court-ccj-letter-5.html

 

I have had great help from Paul who has helped prepare a defence, plus my Allocation Questionnaire and the deadline is today at my local court for them to submit theirs, I phoned the court at 4pm and they hadn’t so pretty much game over, they couldn’t come up with an agreement

 

The court action is a standard procedure with 1st credit so you need to acknowledge the claim using MCOL and this gives 28 days to submit a defence ,its also important that you phone Northampton to get the exact date that your defence is due

 

In the meantime send this letter to 1st credit solicitor recorded delivery, don’t sign it just type your name…..

 

I am sure someone will help you submit your defence as the likelihood of them complying to this letter is slight……they will write back and say that because you have made payments you admit the debt ect and any legal costs for defending will be added to your debt, this is just standard threats.

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Barclaycard.

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[scorterooney]

they don't have an CCA. they been threatening you for over a year and done nothing about it,

 

you got a lot of muscle in that lot. give ya self a gold star,

 

ok, defend (28 day one) , send CCA off ASAP (tommorrow) to FC.

 

you have taken every oppertunity and provided a full income expenditure and FC has refused (you have wrtten evidence of this)

i can point you in right direction but still need some 1 that can help more than I can

 

 

Thanks marmite - i shall pop over to Mcol now and start having a look into how i go a bout sorting that

[mrmarmite]

what i do know and can say a couple out comes of this.

 

if they provide a CCA and it not executed they outta luck but dont tell them that. if they do you have made every possible attempt to make payments and you have evidence they they refuse.

SO,

 

1. if in court and you dont receive an executed CCA 1st thing you request at hearing is a properly executed agreement, without this the judge is NOT allowed to enforce the debt and will order FC to provide 1 within a time period and set date for another hearing,

 

2. IF they have an executed CCA you provide ALL letters sent and received to the judge include expenditures list and say you can only afford to pay£x.xx,

 

judge will say ok if you pay £X.XX per month (as per your income/outcome you will get a suspended warrant and that end of case in judge eyes as long as you maintain that £x.xx be it 5 or 10 quid per month there is nothin FC can do and FC will get slapped for waisting court time and more than likely FC will have to pay court costs

 

understand?

[scorterooney]

Nice letter B3RTY , much appreciated.

 

Will get that typed out and sent by recorded delivery first thing in the morning.

 

Will have a goo read through your thread as well - its good to know im not the only one that these oiks are trying it on with lol

[mrmarmite]

ty barty for that, me usualy take DCA;s to court b4 they take me so i can help here but little limited

[scorterooney]

what i do know and can say a couple out comes of this.

 

if they provide a CCA and it not executed they outta luck but dont tell them that. if they do you have made every possible attempt to make payments and you have evidence they they refuse.

SO,

 

1. if in court and you dont receive an executed CCA 1st thing you request at hearing is a properly executed agreement, without this the judge is NOT allowed to enforce the debt and will order FC to provide 1 within a time period and set date for another hearing,

 

2. IF they have an executed CCA you provide ALL letters sent and received to the judge include expenditures list and say you can only afford to pay£x.xx,

 

judge will say ok if you pay £X.XX per month (as per your income/outcome you will get a suspended warrant and that end of case in judge eyes as long as you maintain that £x.xx be it 5 or 10 quid per month there is nothin FC can do and FC will get slapped for waisting court time and more than likely FC will have to pay court costs

 

understand?

 

 

Thats cool - No2 would be great - ive never had a problem with p aying off teh debt - the big problem has been FC actually allowing me too lol

[mrmarmite]

barty. correct if wrong, if letter states 14 days he still needs to defend to get 28 days, at mo only got 14 from notice

[mrmarmite]

as said scorternoony, you HAVE evidence that you have tried to repay but FC has REFUSED, this is not good for FC

[scorterooney]

Another quick question

 

Im currently on MCCOL and am looking at filing an acknowledgement of service so that i can increase the time from 14 days to 28 days.

 

Should i do this NOW or should i leave it for 10 days and then do it ( therefore possibly giving me longer ?)

 

The claim was served on the 7th of Jan

 

does that make sense lol ?

[scorterooney]

also do i want to defend

 

ALL or PART of the claim and do i intend to contest jurisdiction

[mrmarmite]

it wont give you more time, it starts from time of issue like today

[mrmarmite]

defend ALL because they not provide legal rights to collect this debt, as to jurisdiction i gotta pass on that, I dont know

[scorterooney]

well the acknowledgement has now gone through via MCOL so ill get to printing of the letter for First credit now.

 

 

Thanks all so far