Hassle from 1st credit

[Cyberpatient]

Hi,

 

I recieved a letter from 1st credit stating that i owed £1534.84 for a defaulted credit agreement from a couple of years ago. I called them immediatly to try and sort it out. At first i was told that had to pay the full amount within 7 days or legal action would take place. I kept on at them as i cant possibly make a full payment and a 12 month plan was given to me.

 

I explained that i am self employed and my earnings are not guaranteed but i should have no problems making a payment. Since that call my client that im doing a job for informed me that they cannot pay me until the 14th January which means i cant make my first payment. I called 1st credit again and tried to explain the situation but they wouldnt listen, talking over me as if i were a child. I asked to speak to a manager and got put through to a guy called Adam Nigh. Again, he talked over me instead of listening. He informed me that if i didnt make the first payment (on christmas eve) then legal proceedings to make me bankrupt would occur.

 

This is after i informed him that i could pay the first amount on the 14th January and still make the original january payment. (24th)

 

After putting the phone down on me i started to have a think and realised that the debt of £1534.84 was for the original purchase price on which i had made payments towards so that sum isnt the actual amount that i owe.

 

Could someone help and tell me where i stand and what i should do? Christmas eve is in 4 days time and i still have no way of making a payment.

 

Can they make me bankrupt for £1534.84? I own my business so making me bankrupt involuntary would mean i have no employment whatsoever!

 

Thanks

[42man]

Courtesy of Curly Ben

First NEVER talk to these "people" on the phone as they will try and get you to agree to anything.

 

Before you even think about making any sort of acknowledgement or payment to a DCA you MUST ensure that they have the LEGAL right to collect the debt.

This is achieved by requesting a copy of the Signed, Executed Credit Agreement via a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request.

There is a template letter to be found here: Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

Also write - ALL COMMUNICATION TO ME MUST BE IN WRITING - IF I RECEIVE ANY CALLS FROM YOUR COMPANY THIS WILL BE REGARDED AS HARRASSMENT AND TREATED AS SUCH

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some important deadlines to observe.

 

After 12 WORKING days the "debt" is in default and stays that way until the request is complied with.

If a FURTHER month passes then the DCA has committed a summary criminal offence and the matter should be referred to Trading Standards for action once the DCA continues to demand payment.

Bear in mind that if you phone DCA's then they will say ANYTHING to frighten you into paying

[Cyberpatient]

Courtesy of Curly Ben

 

First NEVER talk to these "people" on the phone as they will try and get you to agree to anything.

 

Before you even think about making any sort of acknowledgement or payment to a DCA you MUST ensure that they have the LEGAL right to collect the debt.

This is achieved by requesting a copy of the Signed, Executed Credit Agreement via a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request.

There is a template letter to be found here: Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

Also write - ALL COMMUNICATION TO ME MUST BE IN WRITING - IF I RECEIVE ANY CALLS FROM YOUR COMPANY THIS WILL BE REGARDED AS HARRASSMENT AND TREATED AS SUCH

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some important deadlines to observe.

 

After 12 WORKING days the "debt" is in default and stays that way until the request is complied with.

If a FURTHER month passes then the DCA has committed a summary criminal offence and the matter should be referred to Trading Standards for action once the DCA continues to demand payment.

 

Bear in mind that if you phone DCA's then they will say ANYTHING to frighten you into paying

 

Thanks for your response, as i have already admitted the debt and made an 'arrangement' to pay it am i able to do this?

[Rtech]

You can CCA them at anytime.Go ahead and do it.

[Timsta]

It is VERY important that you do request your agreement. At the moment they have all the power, if it turns out that they don't have an agreement, or it is unenforceable they will stop demanding payment and realize that they will need to ask nicely as they won't have ANY means to MAKE you pay.

[Cyberpatient]

It is VERY important that you do request your agreement. At the moment they have all the power, if it turns out that they don't have an agreement, or it is unenforceable they will stop demanding payment and realize that they will need to ask nicely as they won't have ANY means to MAKE you pay.

 

Ok, thanks for the advice guys.

 

I will get this in the post today by recorded delivery which should at least halt any payments that i need to make until next month anyway.

[Movingon]

Have you "Admitted" the debt in writing? If not, it never happened; they have no proof and they won't have taken any care to confirm your identity to a legally satisfactory standard on the phone. They could show a transcript of a conversation in court and it would be meaningless as they can't prove it was you.

 

So - you should by all means write the "I do not acknowledge" letter and send by special delivery ASAP.

[Lula]

Cyberpatient make sure that you sign nothing with your usual signature, but I think someone is coming along with more advice shortly

[42man]

A debt can be disputed at any stage....basically you weren't aware of your rights at the time you started dealing with them - YOU ARE NOW !!!

Let us know how it progresses !!

[42man]

Thanks Lula...I forgot to put that in...never handsign a letter to them as it has been alleged that some DCA's will attempt a bit of editing !!!

[Cyberpatient]

Indeed, ive had experience with signature tampering in the past.

 

I will keep you updated.

 

If it did go to court then i doubt they would play the recorded phone conversation anyway purely because of the tactics they were trying to use.

[Movingon]

Use Special Delivery though; it's the only way to be certain that you get proof of delivery.

[babybear39]

Subscribing with great interest

 

When you send your CCA request also ask for a copy of thier complaints procedure and send them this letter also:

 

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

 

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[NAME HERE]

.

 

Good luck and best wishes with my favourite DCA...

[Cyberpatient]

Ok, think i may have made a slight boo-boo. I sent the letter earlier in order to catch the last post and to ensure they get the letter before xmas eve.

 

Was i meant to ask for a deed of assignment aswell as sending the standard executed credit agreement template letter? Or is it the same thing?

 

Whatever the case, after reading the other posts and threads im only likely to get a standard letter of acceptance to state that it takes 'one month' for it to be sent out anyway!

[Rtech]

A Deed of Assignment,you will never see,the likely one you get is a Notice of Assigment',but you certainly don't need to ask for that...the CCA request as it is in the templates is correct.

[Cyberpatient]

Thanks, i thought as much but thought i would double check!

[Cyberpatient]

Quick update - I have recieved 2 letters. The first one -

 

04/01/2008

Dear Sir / Madam

LEGAL PROCEEDINGS

client: XXXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

Debt: £1533.84

Client Account: XXXXXXXXX

I regret the above sum remains outstanding. We now intend to take legal proceedings against you. If successful it may result in;

-substantial legal costs and interest being charged thereafter.

-Entry of your name in the county court judgement register, making it very difficult to obtain credit in the future.

Subsequant failure to make payment could result in enforcement action;

-an application to you employer for an attatchment of earnings

-seizure of your assests by a county court baliff

-a charging order against your property.

If you are not resident in england or wales legal enforcement action will be in strict accordance with the laws relating to the county of your residence.

PLEASE TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE CONTACT.

Yours Faithfully

LITIGATION DEPARTMENT

I checked with royal mail and the CCA request i sent was delivered and signed for on 24th December 2007 which means they sent this letter after they recieved it. I have also had numerous voicemail from them since they recieved it which i stated would be classed as harrassment!

Are they in the wrong?

 

My second letter -

 

08 January 2008

Dear Sir/Madam

Client: XXXXXXXXX XXXXX XXXX XXX

Relating to account number: XXXXXXXX

Balance outstanding: £1533.84

Our ref: XXXXXX

REQUEST FOR COPY AGREEMENT

we refer to your recent communication requesting a copy of the relevant agreement.

We will shortly be advising our client of your request and the document will be sent to you as soon as possible. This process may take at least six to eight weeks.

Should your request also include the below documents, please be advised of the following:

Deed of assignment - we would refer you to section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the asignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the deed itself. This isnt as dumb as it may sound but what does this mean?!

Copy statements - there is a charge of £10.00 for this information

On reciept of the copy agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of the debt.

Please call this office should you wish to discuss this matter

Yours Faithfully

ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT

I had a call from them yesterday, they hung up after about 10 seconds. I had enough time to say 'hello?' lol

 

As they recieved my CCA request on 24th December 2007 but the above letter on 8th Jan, which date do i go from for the 12 working days and then the 30 day limit?

 

Ta

[ODC]

They cannot charge you £10 for copy statements. This is a requirement of your CCA request. The 12 working days were up on 14th January. They are now in legal default of your request and on 14th February will commit a summary offence.

 

They are so silly. Had they tried to work along with you regarding the alleged debt they would have been getting paid. Instead they become agressive, you google them and end up here.

 

One piece of advice though

 

NEVER SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE

[Cyberpatient]

They are so silly. Had they tried to work along with you regarding the alleged debt they would have been getting paid. Instead they become agressive, you google them and end up here.

 

Exactly, still at least i know now that it may not actually be them i owe money to!

[Rtech]

You are doing eveything in the right and legal way,and ODC is saying it as it is.

Don't get hung up on this 'Deed of Assignment' business.It is the agreement between,the Buyer and Seller of the debt,and could include the costs involved for THEM,and is really none of your business,at this time.

The Original Creditor has a responsibility to have sent you a 'Notice of Assignment' and their letter tells you that.

The CCA is the ONLY thing applies at the moment,and so far they are in the wrong,until if and when they produce it.

Have a good weekend.

[babybear39]

You could also send them this by recorded post if you haven't already done so:

 

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

 

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[NAME HERE]

[Movingon]

You are doing eveything in the right and legal way,and ODC is saying it as it is.

Don't get hung up on this 'Deed of Assignment' business.It is the agreement between,the Buyer and Seller of the debt,and could include the costs involved for THEM,and is really none of your business,at this time.

The Original Creditor has a responsibility to have sent you a 'Notice of Assignment' and their letter tells you that.

The CCA is the ONLY thing applies at the moment,and so far they are in the wrong,until if and when they produce it.

Have a good weekend.

 

Doesn't S.77, S.78 and S.79 entitle you legally to a copy of the deed of assignment? I thought it did...

[rory32]

Doesn't S.77, S.78 and S.79 entitle you legally to a copy of the deed of assignment? I thought it did...

No you are only entitled to a copy of the credit agreement with a statement of account under these sections. However, as has been previously stated a Notice of Assignment is required from the OC. A Deed of Assignment would only be required to be produced in court if this was brought up as part of the defence.

[Cyberpatient]

Ok, it's now been 2 months since i sent my CCA letter by recorded delivery and i haven't heard anything from them apart from the standard letter they send out to say it will take upto 6 weeks for it to come.

 

Should have come by 15th Feb by the very latest i think

 

Today i got the following letter:

 

------------

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re Your agreement with XXXXXXXXX

Relating to your account number XXXXXXXXXX

Balance Outstanding £1533.84

 

Please note that your case has been passed to the PRE LEGAL TEAM

 

The aim of this department is to make every effort to reach an agreement to clear this debt without the need for legal action.

 

If we are successful in obtaining a County Court Judgement against you and you own/jointly own the freehold/leasehold interest in a property then we could take the appropriate action to secure a charging order against the property. If 1st credit were successful in obtaining a final charging order we would be legally entitled to apply to the court for an order for sale of this property.

 

Alternatively we may decide to petition for your bankruptcy.

 

We would of course prefer you to contact this office to discuss how the debt may be cleared within a reasonable period.

 

If you are considering re-mortgaging your property or taking out a loan to clear your debts please advise us asap.

 

If we do not recieve a reply to this letter within 7 days your details will be passed to our legal team for appropriate action.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

1st Credit Audit Team

-------

 

My question is, where do i stand with them now? Im assuming that they have now committed an illegal offence as they have failed to present me with the CCA/Deed of assignment which i paid my £1 for?

 

If yes, then do i have grounds to take legal action against them? Should i just go back to the CAB and ask their advice first?

 

Im asking here because i get to what other people have experienced with this company.

 

Thanks

[42man]

You might like to send them this - you'll need to edit to suit.....

 

Reproduced courtesy of Curlyben

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully