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    • An update to this case as I’ve not been on in a while.    I am still awaiting a charging decision in the case. The two police officers involved have said their personal belief is a section 47 ABH charge is the most likely outcome but this isn’t a sure thing of course.    The EA certificate from the issuing court has now lapsed. The court have refused to recertify him until they’ve had a hearing in to the case, and the district judge has issued orders to surrender all evidence, footage, photos etc.    I have done so promptly.    the EA, not so much . Equita have claimed they cannot provide his bodycam footage as the camera he was wearing is the EA personal one not one of theirs.   the EA has claimed he has asked Equita and the police for the footage as he claims he doesn’t have it.    the police have confirmed they didn’t seize his camera and they don’t have it.    so they are basically pointing the finger at each other all the while failing to comply with the district judges order to provide all evidence they intend to rely on at the rescheduled hearing.    The district judge has stated the hearing for his certification will NOT be the hearing for my complaint as there is no charge as of yet, and just as to whether he should be recertified or not.    I’m not 100% on why that can’t be done at the time, but I’m not about to question a judge…..      
    • Thanks FTMDave, I like the cut of your jib - I'll go with that and obtain proof of postage. Encouraging that NPE have never followed through and seem to blowing hot air, let's see where they go after this   Regards
    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
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snatchwest 2nd rounds


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well her we go again . natwest ignore the fact that i stopped my AVDG continue to charge me the fee without my autorisation and guess what today i received a default notice which correspond exactly in unlawfull charges plus interest so will put an other claim against them again. pretty impressive they are considering i haven't used this account almost a year now ...... gald i took my banking elsewhere as i don't any problem with them....

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Good luck Phill123.

 

Im sure i dont need to tell you how to suck eggs ( ask your mum ), but i do suggest that you take the default notice seriously as the implications are much more severe than unlawful penalty charges.

Good Luck.

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.

 

NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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yes i would take it seriously when natwest will stop taking me for a ride first they know i ask them that i din't want anymore the avdg as i was taking my banking elseqhere so i signed the paper and didn't thought anymore of it. they couldn't allow me to close my current account bacause i have a loan with them. So 8 month ago i left over 300 pounds in case they start getting silly again. to my surpise receiveng more than 700 pounbds alone in charges i haven't use this account for a year. there is no transactrion done so they default me because they have applied crazy charges for no transaction done on this account, so theyir defautl are only for charges applied to this bank account which i don;t uses anyway and they know it ... .

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Hi Phill

I note you have started another thread in general debt with regards to this problem ie default note. It would help if you can pm a mod to get the threads merged either here or there and keep it in one place.You will bennefit far more than following two threads.

 

Firstly its a myth that you have to keep a current account to service a personal loan NW do this to retain either AVG charge and of course penalty charges, you can make payment from Timbucktoo if so desired.I will go into the reason shortly.

The default notes you have recieved are executed correctly NW are pretty savy in this respect the reason for the different headings are ones your P/Loan and the other is a termination default notice on your current account with unautherised overdraft which with respect they have created.

You state you are on a payment plan with regards to th P/L and have never missed a payment.

The stark reality is that anyone making nominal payments to an agreementat some point in time, A default Note and eventually a Court claim will be filed. These Companies as everyone knows, play rough, so why anyone would assume that they will be allowed to continue making nominal payments forever and a day, with the Bank's blessing, and if they know you own a property is beyond me. More and more people are getting into difficulties with loans and credit cards, so the worse the situation gets, the more aggressive the banks and credit card Companies will become in enforcing debts. As in your case Snatchwest,s patience has run out and you now need to prepare yourself for said outcome

 

You state you have requested S.A.R have you recieved anything back with regards to this? Have you an idea of how much the penalty charges are? I would also suggest a seperate CCA request for the P/Loan.Going back to the Default Notes NW are very savy and the only error they have made is including said penalty charges (and the default charge this is also a penalty) in the termination note.This is why they keep the loan account D/N seperate and wont close your current account,no where to charge the penalties, thus rendering the bulk of the default invalid.

So as you stand the P/L D/N is correct but you need to check against your S.A.R to where your nominal payments have gone because if you are on a payment plan how can a default arise? Well what they usually do is apply the payments to your overdraft first to reduce the ( iffy) debt and if you are not recieving regular statements, are non the wiser, as you dont get statements for the loan NW dont issue them.

 

]If you can clarify where you are up to with the points I have raised above then will be able to advise further

 

I hope this is helpful

Regards

Andy

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Well, if we're working from this thread the other needs dropping.

 

There is no consumer credit agreement. A default notice is not valid as there is no agreement from which to issue it.

 

This arrangement isn't covered by S9 or S10 or Part 2 Schedule 2 of the CCA. There is no implied overdraft on the account and YOU have not drawn on any funds.

 

I would write to the Bank. I would point out that you asked to close the account on xx/xx/xxxx and were told that you could not due to the existence of a loan. That effectively you had to watch the credit on that account slowly disappear as it was eaten away by charges on an account the Bank would not let you close and that the charges eventually turned a credit balance into a debit balance.

 

Point out that the default notice is invalid as no consumer credit agreement exists. That there was no implied overdraft as the "debtor" has to be able to draw on the account to create the debt. That did not happen in this case as the only withdrawals from the account were made by the creditor!

 

Say that unless the Bank withdraws the default notice and refunds the charges then you will commence proceedings under s142 to have the alleged "agreement" determined as non existent and seek a refund of the charges and have the default notice declared as irrelevant.

 

This is diabolical.

 

As far as the "nominal payments" on the loan are concerned with the agreement that did exist (I hope you've CCA'd them) . The agreement was effecitvely amended when they agreed to lower payments. Have they asked for higher payments? If not then you are not in breach...

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thanks edz11 i have wrtten off a leeter of complaint to natwest sent it recorded as usals yes they wanted more money ..... when they first contact me regarding my overdraft i thought they were having a joke or it was a [problem] lol until i went online and seen the extent of the charges they have applied unbelievable.

i still haven''t CCA natwest for the Loan however in my SAR i requested the executed and dated loan contract between me and i am waiting to see what they will come up with.

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi again i have some update from snachtwest. and i am fuming over them.

 

well they answer is that they don't care and will do nothing to resolve my complaint. they wan tot enforce the defautl as apprently as my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was made to regulatory risk and not to their department so they do not consider my account in in dispute. i told them as with no agreement how come they can registered a default anyway when you have took away my card cheque book, etc.. about a year agos so how come now i am in overdraft ? i have even mentioned tht as an account is into dispute they cannot registered a defautlt as it is against the banking code/ their answer we do not subscribe to it so we can't choose to registered the defautl if we wish too .she say well obviosuly as you have paid your nominal payment from a different account that NatWest it occur charges so you will have to pay for it? they recognise it was paid but not with their own current account .

so i told them well be prepared for a long ride as i will not make any payment toward something which i was not able to withdraw... and i will reclaim all charged interest and default removal through the court if i have too . they keep maintaining that i have no right to close my current account with them as i have a personal loan and they could do as they wish this is what i have in writing from them. well they have a great sense of custoemr services.

 

this is absolutely crazy from them all of that because i have previously sue them and i won and they couldn't swallow it. i think their action are rather humiliating and punitive....

 

so what shoudl i do now? they still haven't answer my SAR however they have still another two weeks before the 40 dasy are up . so what should i do ? thank your help

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  • 2 weeks later...

today i have receiveda letter from TDM which says i have failed to meet my cointractual obligations and after a legal notice (well i haven;t received a default notice under section 87 then iwonder how they could do that ) trhey are threatening me with repossesions, recovering any asset to be sold and so on and on .... on a cureent account ?????? well i don't hink so to start with.

 

so they seems not to respond to my SAr for the moment no acknowldegement whatsoever , no agreement for the overdraft anyway as i wasn't allowed one in the first place. so what should i say to natwest now ? should i sent a letter to TDM to say the accoun tis in dispute or just wait /

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it was both by writing and by phone call

 

"well they answer is that they don't care and will do nothing to resolve my complaint. they wan tot enforce the defautl as apprently as my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was made to regulatory risk and not to their department so they do not consider my account in in dispute."

 

they called me insisting paying the full amount if not they will passed it on to a DCA and my complaint doesn't stand

 

"i have even mentioned tht as an account is into dispute they cannot registered a defautlt as it is against the banking code/ their answer we do not subscribe to it so we can't choose to registered the defautl if we wish too ...... ...... wish this is what i have in writing from them. well they have a great sense of custoemr services."

that was by phone cal land confirm in writing that all charges are for the payment made by a different account even though they have agreed to it in the first place.

 

 

so now i am left with TDM which i have no idea wo were they do natwest have to inform us to which company in the first place they sent our data to ?

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well that the things i wdidn;t know about the loan when i received this letter from TDM they have listed two bank accounts which amount to zero pounds indeed they are asking me to give them a cheque for zero pounds which i did and gladly so too!!!!! and one which i have no idea offf, my current account and the loan account which is in dispute

so i am left wondering what natwest is doing if they have any idea what they are doing as i have the funny impression they are very disorganized.but what should i do now ?

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If they have another two weeks, you need to wait that long.

 

You should write to them and ask them what they think they are playing at sending you a demend (actually 3 demands) for zero payment - ask them how they know the other figures are correct given that those two are obviously wrong. I wouldn't have sent them a cheque for £0 - I would have let them take me to court for it .

 

Looking at the four courses of action they mention in their letter - none of the last three can be done without a court order.

 

The first can only be done with your permission so I suggest you revoke that permission now -

Please note that I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing. Should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.

 

 

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i haven't sent them anything yet i amjust preparing a leter but i need some help as i m not very good at it . as for the right o visit this one of the things i have incluided by visiting the general debt section of this site. i am just scared that i have some bailiff after me i know it is remote but i want them to play fair i was a good customer for the last several years

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They have a long way to go trough the process before they can think of sending bailiffs.

 

Post your letter here before you send it and I or someone else will help you with it.

 

 

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I think that you're nearly ready to do something positive.When the charges started to disappear from your current account balance what were they described as on the statement. Do not under any circumstances make any more telephone calls. Everything in writing.

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all charges are described unarrangfed borowing fees and later payment fess ( The One covring the loan) which i don;t understand i was paying through a different account... well i think it was away for them to make more money

the last transaction was made a year agos when they have refunded my bank charges ( this was done at the court stage) then i withdrew most of it but left about 1/4th of the toal sum just in case. this was withdraw a the cashier as they wouldn't let me have a debit card nor a cheque book.

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i don;t called them they are calling me sometimes 4 times a day, they on some occasions they keep the line acrive so if i cannot make any phone call at all without talking to them although this has stopped since the police got involved for the harassment by them

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yes we had left about 300 pounds to cover ain case they applied further charges but to my surprise when i receivged a letter claing that we owed 4 times the amount we had left in even though this account was dormant unbelievable .. yes the account is overdrawn whcih i wasn;t aware off as i though ti had about 300 pounds left in there ..... i am so fed up with snatchwest basically as tfor soem reason that we don;t know we have set up a direct debit forma n other bank account even though they recognise that the money was paid on time they though as it wasnt from a natwest bank account then they could apply all this unlawfull bank charges on thew dormant account then now threateming me with court action , bailiff and so forth ..... even though all along i wanted this account closed as first i didn;t used it, it was dormant for about a year...second what the point to have a bank account if they have wirthdraw all my card, cheque book overdraft facilities so ti would not be able to use it ( thank god at this time i had opened an other bank account to another bank!!!) because i was getting succesfull to claim previously my bank charges back ... so ideemed their action rather punitive, humiliative ( if thsi is a word !?) to say the least....

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hi ii have a question when an account is paased to a DCA in this case TDM does it mean that the acccount is closed ? if so then how come i just received a bank statement and guess what they have put an other 100 pounds worth of charges ?

i am still getting threat of court action and one guy form natwest rang me up just to tell me that i am in default and i hgave 28 days to close my account ?!!! ( i though it was already closed?!) ..... so basicllay they have default ed me twice in the same month? is this legal ?

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hi ed, this is their answer to my complaint that i made to them in december

 

dear phill123,

case ref ; XXXXXXxxx

i refer to your recent concer regarding Collection procedures. Please see the findings from my investigations. along with my proposed resolution outlined below for your consideration.

 

When the bank agrees a personal laon, the bank requires you to maintain a current account in order to service the loan. This is stipulated on your loan agreement forms.

 

Records indicate that both your loan are inarrears and your current account is in excess. The bank has nto received a sastifactory offer of repayment from you and was therfore creect in issuing a notice to default you.

 

it is important that you collect the collectin centre on 08453039015 to discuss repayment options available to you. Failure to do so may result in your accounts being transferres to the rcoveries department and the debt being registeres against you.

 

if you have any questions or remain unhappy in any respect, then please do not hesitate to tele[hone me on ..........

 

then they go on sayingwtheat they sen a leaflet on how to report to the financial ombudsman".

 

i must made few point to this letter, on the agreement for the personal loan and when i applied for it there were no mention of current account needed to service the loan as i put the direct debit form a differnt bank ? moreover they knew that this current aacoutn was dormant as no m,oney was coming in ( my oh wages and benefit was paid into a different bank) and no money coming out. first i suspect also that they put some PPI thaty i haven;t ask for it as the amount has been somewhat inflated .. hence i stril not received any copoy of agreement that i asked under my SAR so i don't know where they can show that to me.

regardoing the current account being in excess welll i discovered that recently as i haven't received load of statement from, them well in fact tone from december 2007 and one now.

i hope thi shelsp answering your questions lol thank you again

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