NR/Wallers Claimform - £29k Pers Loan *DISCONTINUED*

[womble72]

It does Andy.

 

Thank You

 

Womble

[AndyOrch]

Alan

yes i have read Wallis letter file it and wont tell you where guess ok

 

 

Andy

[tomterm8]

No they cant have another stab at it Lol

 

Why not?

 

the law prevents people discontinuing a case, then continuing it on the same facts, but if they discontinue it, send a new default notice, and then continue the case the case would be brought on different facts.

 

They do this with improper notice of assignment issues all the time.

[tomterm8]

From part 38 - Discontinuance

 

Discontinuance and subsequent proceedings

 

38.7 A claimant who discontinues a claim needs the permission of the court to make another claim against the same defendant if –

(a)he discontinued the claim after the defendant filed a defence; and

(b)the other claim arises out of facts which are the same or substantially the same as those relating to the discontinued claim.

[pt2537]

Alan

I told you last w/e to Defend all of it. later in your post it was refered that I was giving misadvice by a member of cag and therefore refained from your post.

I knew there would be penalty charges there always are and I bet you there will be problems with your CCA.Add the fact that they wont comply with your C.P.R request then your defence will reflect all these anomolies

So stop panicking you are in good hands with the the team on CAG.

Hope this averts the crises for now.

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

Andy,

 

 

no one said you were giving misadvice as far as i am aware,

 

what was said and i stand by my comments is that......

 

 

Hi Womble,

 

I can see you are getting conflicting advice and it is rather unfair on you.

 

ultimately, you are the one who has to deal with this action

 

The letter that Ben posted is a CPR request, this asks for disclosure of all the facts that the other party is going to rely upon and if they dont send you the info thats requested, you can make the court aware of that fact and also include this in any defence

 

can you defend when you owe them the money?

 

well that is a difficult question to answer as we stand here

 

yes you can defend , if they dont have a compliant copy of the credit agreement the court will be prohibited from making any enforcement order

 

 

to be able to say what your prospects of success would be will be difficult as at this stage we dont have the info on if the credit agreement is compliant,was it executed properly, does it contain the required terms

 

also did the default contain the required info etc so you see it is difficult to answer

 

the MOST important thing is that you dont sit around doing nothing.

 

my opinion would be that you are best served sending the letter ben posted

 

If you need any further help please shout

 

Regards

paul

 

 

now the reason why i posted this was because it appeared that womble was being left a little confused by what was being said at the time

 

the fact is i could not see where you were going with your advice either

 

the fact that a default notice contains charges would not prima facie make the notice invalid, there is case law which backs this too.

 

however if the default contains penalty charges this would make a stronger case.

 

however for a penalty to be such it must be disproportionate and not a pre estimate of the parties costs

 

now if northern rock can establish that the charges are a genuine preestimate of their losses they are legal entitled to charge the fee to cover their costs

 

a far stronger defence is no agreement but at the time i posted we were not even in possesion of any facts to establish what womble had been charged nor did we have any of the default notices or letters that they sent

 

i hope this clarifies my position and why i posted what i did

 

regards

paul

[AndyOrch]

Hi Tomterm

Quite true but who is going to tell them its invalid until defences are accepted and by that time we will be dealing with a invalid CCA no doubt.

Like I always maintain the defence must refute the P.O.C not forewarn them of what we know and give time for them to regroup you being an expert on defences will no doubt agree with this.

 

 

Regards

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Paul

I note your comments

 

 

 

Regards

Andy

[tomterm8]

Hi Tomterm

Quite true but who is going to tell them its invalid until defences are accepted and by that time we will be dealing with a invalid CCA no doubt.

Like I always maintain the defence must refute the P.O.C not forewarn them of what we know and give time for them to regroup you being an expert on defences will no doubt agree with this.

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

Andy,

 

Wombles copy of the CCA is http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd235/womble1988/img002.jpg .

 

It does appear basically valid to me, if a bit improperly executed.

 

of course, NR haven't actually provided their copy of the agreement yet.

[womble72]

So now it's a waiting game to see if they send me an orginal agreement.

 

I'm still not clear with how the court procedures are.

 

I am defending the claim so i have until the 8th December for my defence but do i just wait until the court sends me more paperwork about why am i defending?

 

I am confused with how the proceedures will be.

 

Womble

[tomterm8]

The easiest way to submit is to do it through MCOL (Money Claim Online), if that is available to you. otherwise, we will help you fill the form in nearer the time.

 

At this stage, I am still not clear whether it would be in your interest to defend or admit part of the debt.

[AndyOrch]

Hi

I would personaly wait until the deadline to submit your proposals .I still dont think you will recieve your CPR request on time and why have Nr Stated they have included your CCA when they quite clearly have not.

You could perhaps work on two defences and edge your bets.

the law is more about mindgames than fact and you maintaining the edge throughout the argument,will provide you not just mentally with scope to proceed

 

You need to ask your self can I turn this round with what I have ie invalid default note which is totally unlawfull to proceed with litigation and the fact that said CCA seems to have gone AWOL.personally I would defend in full but hey thats me and up for the fight

 

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

ps sorry for th e delay withthe response

[womble72]

Do i need to submit the proposals until deadline via MCOL or the courts sending me paperwork about my defence ?

 

MCOL asks me for a N1 form with my password on.

 

I dont recall having a N1 form.

 

Womble

[AndyOrch]

Sorry TT8

Missed your post in reply i am in agreement with you but personally dont think NR have one otherwise they would have furnished it

 

 

Regards

Andy

[pt2537]

Womble, the N1 is the court form that has the POCs on it

 

you posted a copy with the original docs i do believe

 

regards

paul

[tomterm8]

Hi

....

 

and the fact that said CCA seems to have gone AWOL.personally I would defend in full but hey thats me and up for the fight

 

...

 

Regards

Andy

 

ps sorry for the response

 

Hi, Andy, I don't think you need to be sorry about responding:rolleyes:

 

The lack of a CCA, or an enforceable CCA, is always a very strong argument. There are other arguments that are slightly more technical (such as the default notice argument, penalty charges etc) which can work, but in my experience NR in this case will just reduce the claim by £60, and it's then a very hard sell with the judge. not impossible, just hard.

 

There are other routes we can go down, which might end up with a better situation for wombles. Unfortunatly, unlike winning a defence, they would end up with wombles paying back the debt, but without the credit history a CCJ would entail.

 

It's always hard advising in any case, because of course most people would always like to try to win:D but, sometimes, if the cards aren't strong in your favour there can be cost implications of fighting a claim, especially considering this would be fast or multi track.

 

I mean, obviously, if womble wins, they pay, and if we have a strong defence it is worth the risk. I, Paul, and CB are discussing matters behind the scene to try to find such a strong defence. I always tend towards cautious, however, because I don't want to make the situation worse.

[AndyOrch]

Alan

you need to log onto MCOL input your case number and the password follow the screens AOS first and then move on to the section you refer to

Three options

Defend

Admit part

Agree

 

Select what you personaly wish to do dont tick C/C at this stage

 

 

Andy

[tomterm8]

Sorry TT8

Missed your post in reply i am in agreement with you but personally dont think NR have one otherwise they would have furnished it

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

i've just seen too many court cases recently where the creditor intentionally sends the credit agreement to the court with a nice letter ... possibly prevaricating.... saying that they've sent it to the debtor three times already.

 

i DON'T trust creditors to play fair.

 

TBH, Northern Rock are more professional than most.

 

Tom.

[AndyOrch]

I Fully agree Tom with your response only Alan can make that decision

but is in a very more confident position with the help of CAG to determine this

 

 

Andy

[womble72]

Hi,

 

I do not have a password to log on to the MCOL.

 

Womble

[tomterm8]

Not all claims can be done through MCOL, unfortunatly. We'll help you submit the forms nearer the time, then.

[womble72]

O.k

 

Thank you

[womble72]

Hi Paul,

 

Sorry Paul but what is a poc ?

 

The only thing i have sent so far through the post is

 

Aos to the court in Gateshead to defend the case.

 

And the letter to Wallis solicitors for the cpr.

 

Kind Regards

 

Womble

 

Womble, the N1 is the court form that has the POCs on it

 

you posted a copy with the original docs i do believe

 

regards

paul

[pt2537]

Morning Womble

 

sorry, so used to using the shortened terms poc instead of full term Particulars of Claim.

 

ive just been back over your documents and i see they have not used a standard N1 form to list their particulars of the claim in this case

 

as tom said not all cases have the option to use Mcol, normally if youve got the option the password for Mcol is on the right hand side of the N1 from memory near to the particulars of their claim

 

 

since you dont have a password for Mcol it would appear we are going to have to do everything the old fashioned way and use paper

 

 

still not to worry

 

i hope this clears that up

 

regards

paul

[womble72]

Morning Paul,

 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

I have a million and one questions running through my head night and day.

 

You must think im a pain in the a*** but i wont be able to afford to go to Gateshead to defend the case but will they rule with me not being there in person.

 

Womble

[Curlyben]

Womble, don't panic as it will automatically be moved to your loacl court as you are the defendant.