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    • An update to this case as I’ve not been on in a while.    I am still awaiting a charging decision in the case. The two police officers involved have said their personal belief is a section 47 ABH charge is the most likely outcome but this isn’t a sure thing of course.    The EA certificate from the issuing court has now lapsed. The court have refused to recertify him until they’ve had a hearing in to the case, and the district judge has issued orders to surrender all evidence, footage, photos etc.    I have done so promptly.    the EA, not so much . Equita have claimed they cannot provide his bodycam footage as the camera he was wearing is the EA personal one not one of theirs.   the EA has claimed he has asked Equita and the police for the footage as he claims he doesn’t have it.    the police have confirmed they didn’t seize his camera and they don’t have it.    so they are basically pointing the finger at each other all the while failing to comply with the district judges order to provide all evidence they intend to rely on at the rescheduled hearing.    The district judge has stated the hearing for his certification will NOT be the hearing for my complaint as there is no charge as of yet, and just as to whether he should be recertified or not.    I’m not 100% on why that can’t be done at the time, but I’m not about to question a judge…..      
    • Thanks FTMDave, I like the cut of your jib - I'll go with that and obtain proof of postage. Encouraging that NPE have never followed through and seem to blowing hot air, let's see where they go after this   Regards
    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
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Car HP and cca request


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Ive got a car on hp but have never received a credit aggrement all i was given was a pre credit approval form which all the figures are wrong. I am not at the half way stage yet.I can not afford to keep up the repayments and was wondering what happens if i cca them if i can , can they still reposses the car or if they dont produce one what happens re the car do i return it and get my money back or can i keep it with no further payments. Ialso live in scotland which means they have to go to court to get posetion.I will try and scan the form i have later ,thanks for any help

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I love HP agreements. They are so easy to make a pigs ear of....

 

Presumably you bought a car and the dealer sorted out a finance deal for you. You need to scan and post the details of what limited paperwork you have on here.

 

You may have traded in your old car or put down a deposit - but no matter what, you'll have received a separate bill/invoice/receipt for your dealings with the dealer and a separate batch of paperwork for the loan. You must find your paperwork from the dealer - you can get the other stuff for the loan from the finance company later.

 

But what do you have so far?

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HP agreements are nearly always defective

 

You need to CCA and SAR the lender (£1 and £10 respectively). That gets you what you need to know under the Consumer Credit Act and Data Protection Act. Browse the site to see how to do it and why. (It is FAR better that you know why you are doing things rather just knowing what to do).

 

Why do you say the figures on the form are wrong? Did you keep any paperwork from the dealer? (aside from that approval form)

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this is the only paper work i have as the garage and finance company are the same people i part exed a car and was given £4000 for it which cleared the finance owing on it i then paid £395 cash deposit plus financed the rest ie £5000 but the figures show different ,it looks like they added some together then took off th px figure

My Documents.zip

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As predicted...

 

Was the car you were buying £9395?

 

This is not the agreement. It isn't executed and can't be as there isn't any room for signatures of the creditor/debtor.

 

You have no choice but to ask for a copy of the agreement under S79 of the CCA. That will show what paperwork they do have. What you have scanned is not enforceable. What did you sign?

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The agrement has to state the total cash price of the goods and in the pre contract document it says that that is £9395. If that does not apear on the agreement you get under the CCA request (and it won't) then it is unenforceable. But we'll come back to that later on when you get it.

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This is the agreement ive been sent nothing else it does say in box 2 TAP (3+8 is £8680.16 but if you add up box 3 &8 it does not make £8680.16 so im thinkin of using there figures and returning the car with no more to pay as ive paid over £6537.58 according to there workings on this aggrement will i be able to do this any advice very much appreciated

ccagif.zip

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according to my copy of Goode - the total payable under the agreement is

the total cash price 9395?

+ credit and charges 3680

Total payable = 13075 (50% = 6537). This is odd. It's the first one I've seen that's 100% accurate. Bu the date on the agreement is 05/05 (when it was printed?). It's well post Wilson case.

 

Bad news I'm afraid. It is kosher if the price on the windscreen was £9395.

If not, it gets interesting. The total payable under the agreement is the price of the car + credit cost. The cash and car deposit you paid is counted as a credit payable against the "half of the agreement" figure. So quickly terminate. You may find yourself getting a call from the finance people trying to get you to accept a good offer to buy it.

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the price was not on the screen but was told it was £5395 my part ex was on finance and they gave me £4000 in part ex which cleared that finance which is not shown this is where the figures dont make sense to me as it does not show the settlement of my previous hp. so im gonna terminate and take the figures they have used on the agreement theyr not gonna be happy as i live 600 miles from the garage and on an scottish island (expensive ferry crossing) is that there problem or mine

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Doesnt the agreement also have to state how much the deposite was? as i dont see it in there.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Godmother - it does state the deposit on the agreement.

 

Chickenmad. This agreement says that you are paying £9395 for a Rover 75 Club in May 2006. I'm not a car freak but I wouldn't pay that much for a Rover. They were bust by then so there weren't any new models. You say that the price was £5395 - I would say £5 to £6 was about the right figure. Was that figure £5395 agreed? (It is important because those verbal dsicussions also form part of the "contract").

 

You have also said that they would take the car off you and sort out the finance outstanding on it. What was that old car worth (forget the finance) when you got rid of it to the garage? (a rough idea).

 

I think that the HP agreement is NOT enforceable. If you agreed that the cash price of the Rover 75 was £5395 then that is the cash price of the goods. They have deliberately confused the issue by then pushing up the value of the Rover by the amount of the trade in. That affects your rights under the CCA and I think it is clear that that is why they have done that. What it seems that after accounting for finance the old car had no value at all. You are going to tell me what the old car was worth - what was the finance outstanding on it?

 

You might have to Section 142 them. Very rare - but seems like you will need to. Section 142 gets a court to determine the validity of the agreement. It keeps your credit record clean if it currently is.

 

Answer to above ASAP please.

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I cant see it on there but that might be becasue i cant make the document much bigger

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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the price was agreed verbally as the garage had just got the car in and it wasnt preped they had 2 others for sale around the same price i didnt want to spend more than £5k so im 100% sure of the price the trade in was (no comments please) a kia sportage on a 04 plate but had a strange history of reg by kia but was an import and was worth between £4000 - £4500 had these figures given as partex at several garages and had finance outstanding with log book so was desperate to get out of that mess the settlement was approx £39xx so basically i put down £395 in cash deposit. i definetley bought the car april 05 not may 06 what should be my next move as there chasing for payment

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Its how you want to play it. The agreement is not properly executed as it does not state the total cash price correctly. The figure for credit is stated correctly but by fiddling the cash price they have inflated the amount of the "half the payments bit". I would send off a notice of termination of the agreement. Say that the agreement is now terminated (that means that they can't bang you off a default notice, or if they do it's invalid and simply challengeable in court). Say that the agreement was improperly executed and if they do not accept your calculation of 50% as being £5395 + £3680 = £9075 X 50% = £4537.50 then you will apply to the Court for an order under s142 of the Consumer Credit Act determing this as the correct figure.

 

Dodgy practice by the HP company/garage. And if it isn't, it is just a simple mistake, then I'm proven right - most HP agreements are wrong!

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When you take that car back (reasonable distance) not like AFG say "you've got to bring the car down to Worthing" make sure that you have photographed every inch of the car. Reasonable wear and tear is OK. They will say it has been trashed so "you owe us £500 for repairs to he bodywork". You've had the car for over two years and it can't be expected to look new. The photos in and out are your proof. But make sure that days newspaper headlines are in a couple of the shots.

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im not planning to take it back im gonna tell them to collect it as ill need to pay £100 ferry fare to get off the island then its 60 miles to inverness the nearest town a friend terminated a car a few yrs ago here and the finance company in glasgow left it abandoned for 2yrs till a neibour phoned them and bought it for peanuts off them its far to expensive to collect up here and there 600 miles from me so can go and whistle ,will i need to send off v5 to them so im not liable for it on the road where do i stand

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Good question - what does "reasonable" mean in this context. The agreement is flawed in that it does not correctly state your rights of termination. So you were intent on paying half the payments and then terminating the agreement. But they misled you so you paid too much. It is a "balance" thing. If they decide to take action because you won't take it back where they want then you have the option to go back to the court and apply for the agreement to be effectively rewritten. Which would mean that if you won they would owe you money. So, compromise. Tell them you'll drop if off at the ferry terminal at YOUR end at the time and date of their choosing. Don't forget - all letters by recorded delivery.

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received a letter today from finance company it reads as follows

 

dated 20.11.07

 

Re :your hire purchase agreement and voluntary termination

 

can you please contact us to arrange return of your vehicle with V5 and any relevant paper work within 7 days (27.11.07)

 

when the vehicle has been return to delbrook and as had a satisfactory inspection a balance of £329.17 will be outstanding. This is arrears of £179.17 plus default charges of £150.00

 

I do owe arrears of £179.17 and the £150 is charges for 10 letters at £15 each , so do i write to them and in form them where they can collect the car ie home address or ferry terminal, my other problem is the condition as it needs a tyre has space saver on rear at mo the rear brakes need attention and the 2 front tyres are in need of replacement any ideas whats my best course of action to reduce my liability im broke at the moment so theres no way im delivering it 600 miles away i have about £10 to last me 3 weeks thanks for any help

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