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    • Hello   In my view  a self imposed bankruptcy is not necessary.   Your friend just has to accept the situation he is in and set things up to deal with it.   I think that by following a plan off filing everything, saying nothing and letting the Creditors do all the work he will come out of it in the end.   He may need to get his girlfriend on board but once he understands what these creditors can (and cannot do) it may well become less of a worry and more of a sport!   In post #8 you asked for the stages of collection so based on my experience since 2006 I will give you the various stages and make some other comments:   You fail to meet a payment date:- the creditor writes a reminder letter You ignore the letter, they send another letter and possibly emails, SMS and phone calls, all of which are ignored. The cycle continues for a period of time with a number of letters arriving from the creditor. Sometimes the case will be handed off to a Debt collector for a time which is nothing more than a company set up to make phone calls and write automatic letters. They have no power and can be ignored. At some point the creditor will issue a Default notice. This is legally important to the Creditor (but not necessarily important to your friend as it is required by the consumer credit act before any other action is taken. It will give a date by which you must do something usually to pay the arrears. If you don’t pay the arrears then you are in Default and they can go to the next stage. After a period of some months account closure usually follows. It is unlikely the Creditor will take legal action. After a period of time where you continue to get periodic letters and communications from various debt collectors the debt is sold typically for 10p to 15p in the £ to a Debt buyer. This might take six months or as much as a couple of years. You receive a “goodbye” letter from the creditor which says it has sold the debt to the buyer. You receive a “hullo” letter from the debt buyer which tells you that I now owns the debt. Sometimes the above two are in the same envelope.   The debt buyer will start out very friendly but will then get more aggressive. Even at this stage it is best to ignore them. They will sometimes offer you an amount less than the full value to get a quick profit from their purchase. You might want to take advantage of it but I take the view that if they had a strong case to get everything why would they settle for less? They know they have a weak claim when you get this kind of letter. At some point they will do an assessment on you to decide if it is worth taking court action. The bigger the debt the more likely it is, also if you are seen to have assets such as a property or shares. They will start by instructing a solicitor to send a Letter Before Action. This states what they think you owe them and gives you a set amount of time to pay it or respond with payment proposals. It may be wise to respond at this point but best to refer it to this forum for proper advice on what to do. After you fail to respond to the above they will pay a court fee and issue a County court Claim. You will receive a claim pack from the court with a number of sheets of paper; the claim itself, an acknowledgment of service, a defence form. The claim is usually created on line with the solicitor typing in the details. The Court then automatically prints and sends the claim pack. As a result it will not have any supporting documents such as original agreements, statements or anything else. IMPORTANT: this is the first document you absolutely must respond to. First thing to do is find the paper that says acknowledgment of service and send it back. This gives you 28 days to respond instead of 14. If you don't do this or immediately defend then after 14 days you will automatically loose. After this you are into the world of defending the claim which is usually very defend-able as the Solicitor has in all likelihood not provided you with any documents. This is because neither he nor his client have any and they will have to go back to the original lender to get any and very likely they will not get them. (In my own experience I helped a friend by writing to ten creditors asking for copies of the original agreement and not one came up with anything). It is possible you could loose the case in which case you still owe the money and are not much worse of than before because the creditor still has to collect it and without assets it will take a long time to pay off.   Overall, though I don’t think it is a great idea to be in debt, given the extent to which your friend is buried my advice is to consider the old adage “If you owe a tenner it is your problem, if you owe Ten thousand it is their problem”.   To that extent I would follow this plan:   Save all correspondence including the envelopes they arrived in. Do it in chronological order and have separate folders for each debt. As a rule, ignore everything unless it comes from a solicitor or the Court. I cannot stress this enough. Be a black hole into which letters, emails, texts and phone calls disappear, never to be answered, replied to or spoken to in any way. Some people just cannot shut up! Make sure your friend does! The exception is if your friend changes address in which case write to every creditor (or debt buyer that has bought the debt) and advise of change of address WITHOUT signing the letter as such, just type the name at the bottom.   (This is so they don't send court documents to the old address). In most if not all cases that will be it. Just keep filing until six years have passed or five in Scotland. This is because after that time the debt becomes statute barred and the courts will not consider it as it has become too old. (The statue barred date begins 14 days after the date of the Default notice mentioned above and six years after that it is all over for court action). In one or two cases a Court Claim may be made in which case defend it which is a whole other ball game but basically ask them for proof of the debt which they very likely cannot provide, if they can provide challenge it's enforceability,  mostly it's game over for them.   Your friend can start to get on with his life if he follows this plan and learns to accept that these debts are not necessarily the millstone he thinks. He can live within his means and have a good and fun life which is what he deserves. The original creditors have accepted some money from the debt buyer so presumably are happy and the debt buyer will make a profit across the whole bunch of debts he bought even if he makes nothing from your friend so he is happy. If nether of them are happy then they should not have got themselves into the situation in the first place.   As always I finish my comments by saying I am not a legal professional just a guy that got into to trouble in 2006 and learned a lot of this stuff along the way.   I welcome any comments from other CAGers, particularly if they spot any mistakes.
    • There were 1,348 company insolvencies recorded in August 2021 in England and Wales, according to the latest figures published by the Insolvency ServiceView the full article
    • Do not appeal. Please can you complete the questions below. If their NTK is wrong they cannot transfer the liability to pay from the driver to the keeper. If they do not know the name of the driver then they are stuck. No-one to claim the money from. In any event most of the roads on the airport  either come under the Road Traffic Act or the airport Byelaws. if they do then not even the driver is liable since Apcoa has no right to issue tickets for either of those type of roads. But they still do and people still pay them.     
    • Here we bring you the latest industry moves, including recent appointments at Court Enforcement Services, The Cambridge Building Society and LowesView the full article
    • Like this? you said paragraph 2 but it should be 3 right?   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have had in the past a contractual relationship with Sainsbury's Bank.The claimant has failed to state any agreement/account reference number within its particulars therefore I am unable to admit or deny the alleged debt claimed.   3. Paragraph 2 is noted but not admitted.The claimant has failed to state the actual agreement/account reference number.   4. Paragraph 3 is denied I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or Sainsbury's bank.   5. On receipt of this claim on the 20/08/2021 I requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CPR 31.14 request and CCA1974 Section 77 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. Mortimer Clarke is yet to respond in relation to the CPR 31.14 request. To date, 20/09/2021, no documentation has been received.The claimant remains in default of my section 77 request.   It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and   (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974   (c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and   (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
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Car HP and cca request


chickenmad
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Ive got a car on hp but have never received a credit aggrement all i was given was a pre credit approval form which all the figures are wrong. I am not at the half way stage yet.I can not afford to keep up the repayments and was wondering what happens if i cca them if i can , can they still reposses the car or if they dont produce one what happens re the car do i return it and get my money back or can i keep it with no further payments. Ialso live in scotland which means they have to go to court to get posetion.I will try and scan the form i have later ,thanks for any help

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I love HP agreements. They are so easy to make a pigs ear of....

 

Presumably you bought a car and the dealer sorted out a finance deal for you. You need to scan and post the details of what limited paperwork you have on here.

 

You may have traded in your old car or put down a deposit - but no matter what, you'll have received a separate bill/invoice/receipt for your dealings with the dealer and a separate batch of paperwork for the loan. You must find your paperwork from the dealer - you can get the other stuff for the loan from the finance company later.

 

But what do you have so far?

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HP agreements are nearly always defective

 

You need to CCA and SAR the lender (£1 and £10 respectively). That gets you what you need to know under the Consumer Credit Act and Data Protection Act. Browse the site to see how to do it and why. (It is FAR better that you know why you are doing things rather just knowing what to do).

 

Why do you say the figures on the form are wrong? Did you keep any paperwork from the dealer? (aside from that approval form)

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this is the only paper work i have as the garage and finance company are the same people i part exed a car and was given £4000 for it which cleared the finance owing on it i then paid £395 cash deposit plus financed the rest ie £5000 but the figures show different ,it looks like they added some together then took off th px figure

My Documents.zip

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As predicted...

 

Was the car you were buying £9395?

 

This is not the agreement. It isn't executed and can't be as there isn't any room for signatures of the creditor/debtor.

 

You have no choice but to ask for a copy of the agreement under S79 of the CCA. That will show what paperwork they do have. What you have scanned is not enforceable. What did you sign?

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The agrement has to state the total cash price of the goods and in the pre contract document it says that that is £9395. If that does not apear on the agreement you get under the CCA request (and it won't) then it is unenforceable. But we'll come back to that later on when you get it.

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This is the agreement ive been sent nothing else it does say in box 2 TAP (3+8 is £8680.16 but if you add up box 3 &8 it does not make £8680.16 so im thinkin of using there figures and returning the car with no more to pay as ive paid over £6537.58 according to there workings on this aggrement will i be able to do this any advice very much appreciated

ccagif.zip

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according to my copy of Goode - the total payable under the agreement is

the total cash price 9395?

+ credit and charges 3680

Total payable = 13075 (50% = 6537). This is odd. It's the first one I've seen that's 100% accurate. Bu the date on the agreement is 05/05 (when it was printed?). It's well post Wilson case.

 

Bad news I'm afraid. It is kosher if the price on the windscreen was £9395.

If not, it gets interesting. The total payable under the agreement is the price of the car + credit cost. The cash and car deposit you paid is counted as a credit payable against the "half of the agreement" figure. So quickly terminate. You may find yourself getting a call from the finance people trying to get you to accept a good offer to buy it.

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the price was not on the screen but was told it was £5395 my part ex was on finance and they gave me £4000 in part ex which cleared that finance which is not shown this is where the figures dont make sense to me as it does not show the settlement of my previous hp. so im gonna terminate and take the figures they have used on the agreement theyr not gonna be happy as i live 600 miles from the garage and on an scottish island (expensive ferry crossing) is that there problem or mine

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Doesnt the agreement also have to state how much the deposite was? as i dont see it in there.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Godmother - it does state the deposit on the agreement.

 

Chickenmad. This agreement says that you are paying £9395 for a Rover 75 Club in May 2006. I'm not a car freak but I wouldn't pay that much for a Rover. They were bust by then so there weren't any new models. You say that the price was £5395 - I would say £5 to £6 was about the right figure. Was that figure £5395 agreed? (It is important because those verbal dsicussions also form part of the "contract").

 

You have also said that they would take the car off you and sort out the finance outstanding on it. What was that old car worth (forget the finance) when you got rid of it to the garage? (a rough idea).

 

I think that the HP agreement is NOT enforceable. If you agreed that the cash price of the Rover 75 was £5395 then that is the cash price of the goods. They have deliberately confused the issue by then pushing up the value of the Rover by the amount of the trade in. That affects your rights under the CCA and I think it is clear that that is why they have done that. What it seems that after accounting for finance the old car had no value at all. You are going to tell me what the old car was worth - what was the finance outstanding on it?

 

You might have to Section 142 them. Very rare - but seems like you will need to. Section 142 gets a court to determine the validity of the agreement. It keeps your credit record clean if it currently is.

 

Answer to above ASAP please.

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I cant see it on there but that might be becasue i cant make the document much bigger

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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the price was agreed verbally as the garage had just got the car in and it wasnt preped they had 2 others for sale around the same price i didnt want to spend more than £5k so im 100% sure of the price the trade in was (no comments please) a kia sportage on a 04 plate but had a strange history of reg by kia but was an import and was worth between £4000 - £4500 had these figures given as partex at several garages and had finance outstanding with log book so was desperate to get out of that mess the settlement was approx £39xx so basically i put down £395 in cash deposit. i definetley bought the car april 05 not may 06 what should be my next move as there chasing for payment

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Its how you want to play it. The agreement is not properly executed as it does not state the total cash price correctly. The figure for credit is stated correctly but by fiddling the cash price they have inflated the amount of the "half the payments bit". I would send off a notice of termination of the agreement. Say that the agreement is now terminated (that means that they can't bang you off a default notice, or if they do it's invalid and simply challengeable in court). Say that the agreement was improperly executed and if they do not accept your calculation of 50% as being £5395 + £3680 = £9075 X 50% = £4537.50 then you will apply to the Court for an order under s142 of the Consumer Credit Act determing this as the correct figure.

 

Dodgy practice by the HP company/garage. And if it isn't, it is just a simple mistake, then I'm proven right - most HP agreements are wrong!

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When you take that car back (reasonable distance) not like AFG say "you've got to bring the car down to Worthing" make sure that you have photographed every inch of the car. Reasonable wear and tear is OK. They will say it has been trashed so "you owe us £500 for repairs to he bodywork". You've had the car for over two years and it can't be expected to look new. The photos in and out are your proof. But make sure that days newspaper headlines are in a couple of the shots.

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im not planning to take it back im gonna tell them to collect it as ill need to pay £100 ferry fare to get off the island then its 60 miles to inverness the nearest town a friend terminated a car a few yrs ago here and the finance company in glasgow left it abandoned for 2yrs till a neibour phoned them and bought it for peanuts off them its far to expensive to collect up here and there 600 miles from me so can go and whistle ,will i need to send off v5 to them so im not liable for it on the road where do i stand

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Good question - what does "reasonable" mean in this context. The agreement is flawed in that it does not correctly state your rights of termination. So you were intent on paying half the payments and then terminating the agreement. But they misled you so you paid too much. It is a "balance" thing. If they decide to take action because you won't take it back where they want then you have the option to go back to the court and apply for the agreement to be effectively rewritten. Which would mean that if you won they would owe you money. So, compromise. Tell them you'll drop if off at the ferry terminal at YOUR end at the time and date of their choosing. Don't forget - all letters by recorded delivery.

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received a letter today from finance company it reads as follows

 

dated 20.11.07

 

Re :your hire purchase agreement and voluntary termination

 

can you please contact us to arrange return of your vehicle with V5 and any relevant paper work within 7 days (27.11.07)

 

when the vehicle has been return to delbrook and as had a satisfactory inspection a balance of £329.17 will be outstanding. This is arrears of £179.17 plus default charges of £150.00

 

I do owe arrears of £179.17 and the £150 is charges for 10 letters at £15 each , so do i write to them and in form them where they can collect the car ie home address or ferry terminal, my other problem is the condition as it needs a tyre has space saver on rear at mo the rear brakes need attention and the 2 front tyres are in need of replacement any ideas whats my best course of action to reduce my liability im broke at the moment so theres no way im delivering it 600 miles away i have about £10 to last me 3 weeks thanks for any help

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