Very abusive letter from Daniel Silverman re: S&B Controlled Parking 'fine'

[darceyp]

Please could someone help me

- I have just spent three hours trying to find what to do but cant find anything the same ( forgive me i am a newbee)

 

 

I have just received the most abusive letter from a debt collectors in relation to a parking fine on private land

that has come to me as the registered keeper but i was not the driver.

 

 

I wrote and told the company this and they then passed it to a debt agency

I wrote and told them the same and they have sent an awful letter saying such things as

- the opening line "thank you for your letter containing irrelevant information you have down loaded from the internet "

" you had better go and read up on the law of trespass for your dumped thing

which the idiots who write forums on the internet are clearly unable to do themselves"

I havent even said anything about a forum !

 

it goes on " you clearly think that you are so important

... you can write a little letter about it and get away with it "

 

 

finally saying i will be "hauled to court and made to pay inpublic. Your choice"

 

 

any one else had one and please advise what to do next ,

 

 

I would be so gratefull for any advise.

 

 

thank you so much

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Here's what I would do. Get a copy of the letter and keep it. Take the original down to your local police station and repot it as a crime. Explain that it has caused you and your family serious distress and sleepless nights. That you are concerned for your own safety whan you go out as you are fearful that these bully-boys will seek to intimidate you physically.

 

Do not respond to the letter.

[bmwman]

Hi darceyp

 

bernie the bolt is correct on this point I would also suggest sending a copy of this letter to the OFT as they covern the consumer credit licences required by debt collection agencies and the OFT take a very dim view of this sort of behaviour.

 

OFT revokes licence of Liverpool debt collection agency

 

39/07 9 March 2007

A debt collection agency has had its consumer credit licence revoked by the OFT for withholding money from its clients that it had collected on their behalf.

Action was taken against Waterfront Financial Ltd, following receipt of a number of complaints from clients who had not received payments that were due from Waterfront totalling more than £19,000. Complaints had also been received from clients who had not received payments from an associate company, now no longer trading, which totalled more than £14,000.

A senior employee of both these companies has also been convicted of offences involving dishonesty, theft and obtaining property by deception, for which he received a custodial sentence.

In considering fitness to hold a consumer credit licence, the OFT will take into account a number of factors including whether anyone connected with the business has any convictions for offences involving dishonesty, as well as evidence of any unfair business practices including practices which contravene relevant OFT guidance.

During the OFT investigation, Waterfront Financial made representations to the OFT but has not appealed the decision.

Alan Williams, Senior Director of Markets and Projects - Services at the OFT, said:

'Debt collection companies have a responsibility to treat their clients fairly as well as debtors. Unacceptable behaviour of this kind will not be tolerated and we will take tough action against any businesses that engage in such practices.'

NOTES

1. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the Act) requires most businesses that offer goods or services on credit or lend money or are involved in activities relating to credit or hire, including debt collection, to be licensed by the OFT.

2. The OFT can refuse or revoke a licence if it decides that a trader is not fit, under section 25(2) of the Act, to hold one. A failure to comply with the OFT's debt collection guidance, issued in July 2003, would also call into question a licensee's fitness.

3. It should be noted that proceedings under the Act are not the same as those of a court and the adjudicator's findings are not the same as convictions by a court. Therefore where the adjudicator finds that an offence has been committed or a provision of the statute has been contravened, it does not mean that the person concerned has been convicted under court proceedings of that offence or of that contravention.

4. Adjudicators issue and determine licensing Notices under the Act. They do so on behalf of the OFT, but make individual and independent decisions on fitness based on the contentions in a Notice, the evidence attached to a Notice and the representations of those to whom the Notices are addressed. Representations may be made in writing and at an oral hearing.

5. An adverse determination (a refusal to grant a licence or the revocation of an existing licence) can be appealed to the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. No appeal was made by Waterfront Financial in this case.

5. The Consumer Credit Public Register is maintained by the OFT. The register documents traders that hold a licence and any action taken against them. It also details traders that have applied for a licence. Enquiries can be made to the Consumer Credit Licensing Bureau on 020 7211 8608.

[gwc1000]

Hi, darceyp. Please do not be intimidated by these people. A Debt Collection Agency has no additional powers than you or me. They rely on scaring people into paying by their aggressive language. Ignore this letter. They will probably send you more of the same kind, however keep them but do not reply. Eventually they will give up. I like the bit about "made to pay in public" sounds like it was written by somebody who doesn't understand the legal system at all!

Honestly you have nothing to fear.

[Andy7807]

Their letter sounds pretty amateurish, trying to be intimidating, just makes their case (if any), pretty lousy. Definitely worth reporting as suggested above.

[Sidewinder]

God - I would love to get one of these - who was the DCA - name and shame!

[darceyp]

Oh thank you so much for your kind replies i feel much better and will take the action that you say,

i was just worried that they are going to turn up on my doorstep or get some kind of court thing against me.

 

 

The whole thing is really horrid and in terms of name and shame

is it ok to do that cos i will let you know

- whoever they were they were having a really bad day -

 

 

it rambles on about coming to use my kitchen in my house ! and all sorts !

 

 

thanks again will name and shame if its ok just didnt want to give them any glory .

 

 

And just to confirm everyone is of the concensus that I should not reply to them ?

 

 

I may have to come back again if I get another letter !!

[Zamzara]

It's obviously starting to get to them.

 

Yes it's fine to name and shame: what you're claiming is true, and you have the letter as proof. Personally I would scan the whole letter as it sounds a like laugh.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

it sounds a like laugh.

 

But not it seems for darceyp

[Sidewinder]

Exactly as Zamzara says,

providing that you have the letter as proof,

they have put themselves up to be accountable for their actions

and deserve for others to know what they might be expected to receive if they come across the same company.

 

It sounds to me that whoever has written the letter has resorted to ridicule in an attempt to bully you to pay their invoice.

 

 

It falls foul of all sorts of OFT guidelines and is quite probably illegal under the Protection from Harassment Act.

 

 

It also serves to leave them no further avenue to explore in terms of enforcement,

as no doubt a judge would take an extremely dim view of their methods in trying to resolve a dispute in this way.

 

 

That is of course if they were to be stupid enough to try to sue you for damages

- which they won't as the case is unwinnable even on the grounds of trespass

as their oh so knowledgeable correspondent seems keen to highlight.

 

In short - they are frustrated that they know that they can do nothing more than insult you,

knowing that they are unlikely to get you to pay up!

[nutegunray]

Please could someone help me - I have just spent three hours trying to find what to do but cant find anything the same ( forgive me i am a newbee) I have just received the most abusive letter from a debt collectors in relation to a parking fine on private land that has come to me as the registered keeper but i was not the driver. I wrote and told the company this and they then passed it to a debt agency I wrote and told them the same and they have sent an awful letter saying such things as - the opening line "thank you for your letter containing irrelevant information you have down loaded from the internet " " you had better go and read up on the law of trespass for your dumped thing which the idiots who write forums on the internet are clearly unable to do themselves" I havent even said anything about a forum !

it goes on " you clearly think that you are so important ... you can write a little letter about it and get away with it " finally saying i will be "hauled to court and made to pay inpublic. Your choice" any one else had one and please advise what to do next , I would be so gratefull for any advise. thank you so much

 

Simply write back inviting them to begin court proceedings immediately without any further notice, tell them you are not prone to intimidation by post and any further correspondance will be filed under B for Bin.

[electron99]

Darceyp.

 

 

Like most people in your position you are going to need nerves of steel

as these characters are going to send increasingly frightening demands.

 

 

I know it can get quite scary so please post all correspondence on this forum

so everyone can put your mind at rest and give you support in fighting back.

 

 

Remember take control, save everything including envelopes,

and bear in mind no one can enter your home without a court order

- which is just not going to happen.

[darceyp]

hello sorry for delay in getting back to you I have been away a couple of days - thanks to postal strike havent had any more letters - I have scanned it but cant work out how to get it in this post can anyone advise please !! sorry have spent an hour trying to copy it in but must be doing something wrong, thanks

[Sidewinder]

The best way is to sign up with a hosting site such as photobucket (here) then upload your scan onto that site (edit it to remove any personal data before uploading) then once done you can insert the link (using the 'Insert Image' button) to your message on here and others can see it.

[sequenci]

Please remember to remove personal info from the scan such as your name and address etc.

 

I look forward to reading this.

[darceyp]

hi , thank you so much for the advice I think this is correct link !! let me know if it takes you to it - I am anticipating more now the postal strike is over !

 

 

[nutegunray]

Seems like any simple minded moron can set up a debt collection agency, tell them if they want to discuss the matter further to come to your door. I dont think these people have ever seen the inside of a courtroom and have no knowledge of civil law what-so-ever so please dont worry about it and dont pay them a penny.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Seems like any simple minded moron can set up a debt collection agency, tell them if they want to discuss the matter further to come to your door. I dont think these people have ever seen the inside of a courtroom and have no knowledge of civil law what-so-ever so please dont worry about it and dont pay them a penny.

 

I know it wasn't meant that way but absolutely do not invite them to your home.

 

I stand by what I said earlier about reporting it to the police. I doubt, however, that there is sufficient for them to investigate here but that does not mean that it is not worth reporting. Trading standards might be a good idea too.

 

What I would do is to write back to them and say:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I will be quite happy to see you in court on this matter.

 

I absoloutely do not wish you or any actual or apparent agent or representative of your organisation coming to my property without a valid court order. If you do I will contact the police immediately.

 

Yours faithfully

[Zamzara]

I think they're treading a very fine line with the criminal law:

 

What does the Law say?

 

They are also in very serious breach of OFT rules on debt collection. It's outrageous, definitely complain. My comment earlier in the thread was misjudged, it doesn't seem funny at all when you see it spelled out on an official looking document like that, it's downright threatening and intimidating.

[electron99]

I had to laugh when he says you can plead jus tertii. It seems that his knowledge of law is just as tenuous as his grasp of English grammar. The best course of action is to ignore it, but keep all correspondence.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I am only surprised that the letter was not written in crayon.

 

Helpfully, and to save you asking them for it, Daniels Silverman have put their complaints procedure on the internet:

 

Daniels Silverman » Our Complaints Procedure

 

So, send the Complaints Manager a letter pointing out that W. Low's original letter breaches the OFT guidelines as well as just being immature and intimidatory. Tell them that you will robustly defend any action they bring, are confident of victory, and look forward to placing evidence of their behaviour before a Judge.

 

Daniels Silverman's entry in the Register of Data Controllers is also interesting, for two reasons. Firstly, because they give their address as Duncan Sheard Glass (who are a firm of accountants), Castle Chambers etc., and secondly because they don't appear to have told the Information Commissioner that they process data for debt collection.

[Medusa]

Have a look at the law on harassment. There are many other laws specifically associated with this kind of conduct that crosses the boundaries of reasonable behaviour and statutes; ie, IF the allegation is unfounded or misdirected to the proper lawful person, then to the wronged person it also amounts to fraud and harassment.

Here is the offence. Others are on the page link below it.

 

http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/Acts/Harassment%201997/www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/97040--a.htm#1

 

http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/Acts/acts.html

 

They have committed; I would say, the first offence, and look 'minded' to commit the second.

I would write to them; contrary to the view one should ignore it, informing them their conduct is 'vexatious', the language uncalled for, and relies ( note emphasis), on grounds that do not exist except in the author's mind; ie the forum bit is NOT an argument against your case, its a swipe at legal appeals processes and open discussion under Protocol 5 Article 10 of the EU Human Rights Convention.

 

A second response like the first would render their conduct counter actionable.

[C Hughes]

Dear All,

I am the Managing Director of Daniels Silverman, the company named and shamed in your forum.

 

 

I was absolutely horrified when this incident was reported to me,

and I can assure you correspondence of this nature is not condoned by myself

or any other manager within the Company.

 

 

We are a reputable debt collection agency, and do possess a Data Protection Licence

and have been trading in excess of 10 years, recovering outstanding debts for our clients.

 

 

We are fully aware of the OFT guidelines and do not set out to harrass or bully anyone.

I am taking this matter extremely seriously and have immediately launched an internal enquiry

as to how this letter came to be sent to the recipient which may result in disciplinary action being taken.

 

 

I will personally write to the recipient with regard to this matter.

[Medusa]

I am pleased to see the response from the MD here.

 

I suggest a withdrawal of the penalty may be an acceptable apology, it doesn't take account of avoidable time and trouble.

 

I can advise I had similar and worse treatment from a council last year, they too would not give up, without conscience they broke eventually 17 statutes, AND wrote over 20 contradictions and false representations.

 

When they backed down from the onslought of pure logic, I brought them into court, and they lost £4000 in costs, despite the 700 page case not being yet fully heard. I have not finished with this type of conduct that is gross, beneath contempt, and widespread in its pure 'mal fides', and inhumanity from one person to another in the hard working community.

 

It goes to the heart of local and central government.

The culture is exampled from spin systems that are copied for their revenue thrust and content making gains from weaker members of society who lack the articulation skills.

As you just saw, unjustly, the recent 'political intellectual bankruptcy' last week is the sign that a party or group of people are quite happy to steal other's intellectual property and smile about it thinking they have fooled an intelligent electorate.

 

Enough said! I could go on for another 700 pages if you care, but I am placing my own 700 page case on the web soon.

It goes to the heart of government.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Dear All,

I am the Managing Director of Daniels Silverman, the company named and shamed in your forum. I was absolutely horrified when this incident was reported to me, and I can assure you correspondence of this nature is not condoned by myself or any other manager within the Company. We are a reputable debt collection agency, and do possess a Data Protection Licence and have been trading in excess of 10 years, recovering outstanding debts for our clients. We are fully aware of the OFT guidelines and do not set out to harrass or bully anyone. I am taking this matter extremely seriously and have immediately launched an internal enquiry as to how this letter came to be sent to the recipient which may result in disciplinary action being taken. I will personally write to the recipient with regard to this matter.

 

Well, well, well!

 

It's a significant step in the right direction.

darceyp, do not agree to any confidentiality requirement.

Let us know how you get on. It's only fair to Daniels Silverman to set the record straight!