Amex Solicitors Playing Games?

[Maurice1977]

Summary of situation:- any advice/comments appreciated:

 

2 Amex credit cards - defaulted due to redundancy

Debt passed to NCO for collection (not assigned)

Paid them for 12 months following new job

Charges and interest kept increasing, Amex would not respond to letters and NCO were useless and ignored every letter.

 

Found this site and requested CCA's from Amex and NCO also did SAR on both

 

Both Amex and NCO defaulted on CCA's - so I stopped paying NCO.

 

Amex then produced just one application (lacks prescribed terms) for one account and a set of T&C's for the second. Data controller confirmed that was all the documentation that they had in relation to both accounts!

 

NCO got very upset (even told me that they would lose their commission!) then passed the debt back to Amex who then instructed their solicitors.

 

Amex solicitors issued threat of court action, I reminded them of my CCA request, said they would locate and send "applications" for both accounts.

Solicitors added £3,000 in "collection charges".

 

Amex solicitors suggested settlement, I offered 10% for both accounts

They counter-offered with 50% for both accounts

I counter-offered with 20% for both accounts

 

Solicitors then sent same application as Amex had sent for one account only and now only make reference to this one account. Also made no comment in respect of counter offer and again attached their letter requesting 50% settlement, no timeframe. Also requested acknowledgment of letter. Seems very odd?!

 

I am not sure if I should:- (i) respond to their letter with one further counter-offer or (ii) leave them to issue court proceedings before issuing a counter claim given that they don't have the docs and about 50% of the debt relates to charges or (iii) request all information held on me by Solicitors under S7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

[vogelrok]

i wouldn't offer nothing yet. until they can prove they have the original CCA form. with everything as it should be.

if they have failed in the first instance to send correct information when you sent CCA request.

 

the £3000 charge is way out of line. how much was the original debt. for them to add £3000 in collection charges. totally disgusting.

 

they cant collect anything from you till they have proof. also Amex know they shouldn't be passing this matter on if you CCA was sent to them and signed for by them recorded or special delivery.

 

sure someone else with more knowledge will let you know.

[Maurice1977]

Thanks

 

The one application they sent is almost identical to this one:

 

[vogelrok]

nope they cant use that to force you to pay. it is as it says at the top of it application form.

 

not forceable in a court case.

 

they havent failed in responding, they have just failed to produce the original cca.two ways of going at it. send them letters and make complaints about it to relevent TS to the area. or sit back and do nothing. they know they have failed to supply the cca.

 

one trick some are trying at present. is to issue a court claim. which you have to respond to in 14 days of issue plus 5days. this is also nothing to worry about. there is plenty of help if it gets that far. if you dont respond though they can then win by default. a ccj is slapped against you. even though it isn't really lawful.

[Maurice1977]

Thanks

 

Trading Standards told me that they no longer deal with consumer issues and that I should contact the FOS. My experience with them is not very positive and I feel that they would be of little use in what is now potentially a legal interpretation of what rights Amex have to enforce an application for a credit card. Given other threads and outcomes I would be surprised if the Amex lawyers would try to go with what they have.

 

I would prefer to settle and get the default removed.

 

I have spent a lot of time reading all the relevant threads and think the best approach is to now wait and see if they issue legal proceedings on the first account. I am convinced they don't have anything on the second since the Amex data controller has stated this back in June.

[pt2537]

Trading Standards are wrong, they are responsible for enforcment where a creditor fails to comply with a cca request and then commits an offence. the FOS deals more with compensation for the behaviour of these creditors

 

thats my understanding anyway,

 

now on my understanding, an application form is unenforcable under S59(1) CCA 1974 and if it does not include the prescribed terms then they are doubley screwed.

 

it would be interesting to see them try and take this to court

 

 

regards

 

paul

[Maurice1977]

Dear Paul

 

I wrote to my TS and they are quite adamant, their position is that they will not deal with consumer credit issues at all. They do not believe it is their responsibility and refer me to the FOS.

 

I have read all the treads on CAG and there is a "regional lottery" with respect to TS and their "services".

 

My view is to let it take its course and I am prepared for the next stage(s)

[pt2537]

Hi,

 

i am gobsmacked that TS can act in such a way:eek:

 

still the most important thing is that as you pointed out you are fully prepared for the next stages. good luck with amex

 

regards

paul

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Trading Standards told me that they no longer deal with consumer issues and that I should contact the FOS

 

They are Wrong.

 

Trading Standards Role Quick Facts - BERR

 

I would contact them and tell them if they do not act for you, that you will report them to your MP.

 

HAK

[pt2537]

Excellent HAK

 

regards

paul

[oneofakind]

Subscribing.

[Maurice1977]

They are Wrong.

 

Trading Standards Role Quick Facts - BERR

 

I would contact them and tell them if they do not act for you, that you will report them to your MP.

 

HAK

 

Here is the exact wording I recieved from my TS:

 

"My understanding is that the Financial Ombudsman should still be able to assist at least for the reason that any breaches of the 1974 Act by Amex are ongoing and certainly from early April. Consumers sign credit agreements often many years prior to any problems arising and so I think that you will be ok.

I hope that the Ombudsman will be further able to assist with the technicalities of your complaint.

Regards"

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Maurice

 

The fact sheets says it all.

 

Its there job!!

 

Call them tommorow and speak to a manager and tell them to do the job the goverment have instructed them to do.

 

If they still refuse got there name and write to your loal MP. Trust me when the MP replys they will have to act.

 

HAK

[ScarletPimpernel]

Before contacting your MP, why not take it up with a District or County Councillor; after all, TS are funded by council tax.

[ian1969uk]

Trading Standards won't get involved because Amex have complied with your Section 78 request with what they consider to be a copy of the executed agreement. There's now no point mentioning S78 again, apart from the lack of t&c's that they should have supplied.

 

You now need to write back to them, thank them for supplying what they confirm to be a copy of your executed agreement, and inform them that this is completely unenforceable under S127 of the CCA 1974.

 

Therefore, you will be making no further payments to them.

[Monty2007]

Before contacting your MP, why not take it up with a District or County Councillor; after all, TS are funded by council tax.

 

Dear SP

 

I can't see TS being of much use, most don't seem to have any expertise in this area and tend to be very judgmental.

[Monty2007]

FOS don't seem to be much use either, they are taking 3-4 months to allocate a case

[patrickq1]

consumer issues and trading standards even though it is within their remit to act (you have a right to forward you complaint to the FOS and also your local council concerning TS but phone them you are doing this see what happens),but as pointed out this isnt something you need worry to much over as the agreement is an aplication and no forwarding contract is there to back it up ,and as for the excess charges i would nt worry about that this is just a nonsence and if they have sent this under section 78 they are obliged to provide you with a ‘true’ copy of the credit agreement and a statement of financial information relating to the account

all you have is a demand and silly charges..in excess of the origional agreement/aplication i notice you have a transfer of monies from is it barclaycard perhaps this is where some of the extra charges have come from...if possible can you forward anymore detail it surely was nt just this single sheet then perhaps peter or rory can look at the legalities of this correctly

patrickq1

[Peterbard]

HI

I am afraid the TS have developed this game of ping pong with comlainants who first they refer them to the FSO who in due turn either ignore the compaint or try to refer it back meanwhile the customer gets so sick that the just gives up.

The thing to remember is to be sure of what you want when you first contact them to complain.

The FSO have no remit to prossecute creditors for breach of the act and can only act in mediation,so if you want to report a creditor for breaching the act do it to the TS it is there remit to enforce.

What they will try and do is get you to say that you have a dissagreement with the creditor,you do not,you are reporting them for breaching section 77 or 127 or whatever of the act and you require them to enforce. If they refuse gert the name of the person you are talking to and report them to their central office your MP and anyone else you can think of.

Only by doing this are we going to start getting the service from them that we are entitled to.

Any way off the soap box and back to the job at hand.

 

It seems that the creditors are clearly on the back foot here since they have admitted they have no agreements the will not be able to enforce.

 

Try to keep the above in mind at all times when dealing with them as they will try and intimidate and threaten but it is all without subtance.

 

Fistly i would not make any offers of settlement and certainly not in writing, if you have already it is not a fatal error but they will undoubtably say that you have confirmed the existance of an account by making an offer of repayment. If they do this you response could be that you were reacting to their unlawful harressment and have since taken advice.

 

I would write to them and say that, they have still not produced a copy of any agreemnt on either account and they are required by the act to get an order of the court in order to enforce as per section 78.

Remind them that whilst the agreement is in default they should not attempt any action which would be deemed as enforcement and to do so will result in them being reported for possible prossecution under the Administration of justice 1970 section 40 and Protection from harressment acts.

Also inform them that any agreement they produce must conform to the requirements of section 60 of the act in that it must be in the required format and contain the terms as prescribed by the agreement regulations SI1983/1553.

If they do not it will be unenforceable without the order of the court(section 65), and if missing the prescribed terms as required under schedule 6 of the regulations the agreement will be totally unenforceable under section 127(3).

Also mention that before comnencing any such action they are officially requested to supply all documentation to be presented in court in compiance with pre court protocols and that any action will be rigourously contested and may involve a counter action for charges and costs taken unlawfuly in order to credit an improperly executed or none existant agreement.

 

Regarding the removal of defaults. It has been my experiance that creditors very rarly remove defaults from that credit file unless they have to ,they may say that they will but it usually comes down to them marking them as satisfied.

There are effective methods for getting defaults removed but i would concentrate on getting the agreements accepted as being unenforceable first.

If after reading this you dicide that you want to take the offensive and take them to court for charges then we can go into that option,there are many on here that will be wiling to help including myself.

 

Best regards

Petr

[patrickq1]

well done peter nice write up explains a lot

i have just gone onto that free credit report and its the first time i have ever checked my credit ...geuss what 37 defaults all for the same debt MORGAN STANLEY i have approx 42 letters fron 16 DCAs that they sent over the past five years,,,now i am angry i knew i should nt have looked,trouble is i am not in a position to begin this proccess till i come out of hospital i am in next mondy ,be in for two weeks the re habilitation for 8 weeks then if fit enough i am to have my heart by pass and another six to 8 weeks...gggrrrr im getting overheated now,,just wait till i am fit ggrrr lost for words

never mind really cant let this idiot company bother me i sent their hoppos (GOLDFISH)a notice last week if they want their dough take me to court FORTHWITH?

[patrickq1]

Annualcreditreport.co.uk Its Free