Hi

Firstly thanks in advance for help, had some very bad news yesterday and just looking for any advice

In early 2018 I was driving a company vehicle and was doing 36 in a 30 zone. The prosecution notice when to the employers as the owners of the vehicle asking them to name the driver. They named me but I left the company around this time.

I got a letter asking me to name the driver/if I were the driver. I have to confess I didn't respond.

No doubt I have been stupid but this time coincidended with me leaving my family home and having some health issues. I later moved back into the property

Because of health and money issues, I do admit I didn't respond to a couple of letters. I guess I just didn't want to face the truth and accept a fine.

I got a letter yesterday saying I got taken to court last Thursday. I did not get any letter about going to court.

I have been given an £800 fine and banned for 6 months. This seems incredibly harsh as I didn't have any points on my license.

I accept the fine although it won't be easy to pay but the ban seems very harsh and makes life fairly difficult for me.

Cheers again for any advice received, just wondered if I could appeal/defend in anyway

Firstly, go to your local Magistrates' Court and make a "Statutory Declaration". In this you will declare that you knew nothing of the proceedings against you which resulted in your fine and ban. When it is sent to the court that convicted you it will quash the conviction and the CPS will have to bring fresh proceedings against you.

Secondly, there is no reason why you should have been banned for the single offence of failing to name the driver. Whilst any offence that carries points can result in a ban, for that offence the usual penalty is six points. Have you checked your driving record with the DVLA to see if you have, perhaps, another conviction for a similar matter (thus making you liable to a "totting up" ban)?

When the CPS restart their proceedings it would be useful if you come back and let us know whether you have been "dual charged" (with both speeding and failing to provide driver's details). If you have there is an avenue to use where you can be convicted simply of the speeding. If not, you are largely stuffed because you have no realistic defence against the failing to furnish charge. But, unless you have other convictions, you should not be banned.

Might be way off the mark, but you have had your driving licence for 2+ years, right? Otherwise that *might* also explain it

Or as MITM has said, it could be totting up.

It'd be bloody harsh, but SP30 is 3-6 points, and the S172 offence is another 6. So the Magistrates may have been 'making an example' of you and given you 6 points for both offences in your absence, so 12 points and a totting ban.

If that's what happened, I guess they were having a bad day

You are a bit off the mark, DF.

If the OP is a "New Driver" the court does not ban him. His licence is revoked by the DVLA and there is no specific period mentioned. He can drive as soon as he has a new licence. He cannot be convicted of Speeding and FtF as there is no evidence that he was driving. More info is required from the OP.

Failing to provide details carry's a maximum fine of £1000 and 6 points.

Its made very clear on the letter sent to you and that if you dont respond within 28 days that it will proceed in your absence.

I'm of the feeling ,as the above post says, its either a newer driver or totting up has occurred.

Thanks for the comments so far.

Yes I have been driving for around 20 years. I have accumulated 6 points in total before this, 3 in 2004 and 3 in 2013. Nothing in the last 5 years until this.

You have

1 disqualification

TT99Period: 6 monthsStart date: 26 Jul 2018End date: 25 Jan 2019 Hide information

Dates

Start date: 26 Jul 2018

End date: 25 Jan 2019

Conviction date: 8 Jun 2018

Sentencing date: 26 Jul 2018

Removal date: 8 Jun 2022

Offence details

TT99: ‘totting-up’ - if the total of penalty points reaches 12 or more within 3 years

Period: 6 months

Court

2375: Name unavailable

I appreciate it says totting up, but I definitely only have 6 points.

I will appeal it and get myself down the magistrates. As stupid as I have been surely I can only have 6 points and not a ban.

You are a bit off the mark, DF.

 

If the OP is a "New Driver" the court does not ban him. His licence is revoked by the DVLA and there is no specific period mentioned. He can drive as soon as he has a new licence. He cannot be convicted of Speeding and FtF as there is no evidence that he was driving. More info is required from the OP.

Ahh, had no idea how these newer licenses work. I had just assumed that it was the same as the old system, where it'd be a standard ban from a court rather than a revocation. Every day's a school day

As for not being convicted of both... I've seen it happen. The court 'decides' that the keeper was also the driver and infers that that is why they've not told the court any different, and if they're not in court to contest the point, well, you know the rest. The Magistrates may have been procedurally incorrect and it may have been overturned at a later date (I don't know that bit) but it has/does/can happen.

Endorsements stay on your driving record for 4 or 11 years depending on the offence. This can start from either the date you’re convicted or the date of your offence.

The endorsement is ‘valid’ for the first:

•3 years, for a 4-year endorsement

•10 years, for an 11-year endorsement

A court can take your endorsement into account if both:

•you commit another offence while it’s valid

•the endorsement is still on your driving record when the court considers your case

Important.

What were your conviction codes from 2004 and 2013?

paulieT65. That looks like someone at the court (probably a clerk) has misread your driving record then. If that is the case, they should put this right without too much of a fuss.

Although, without trying to preach to the choir, it's a valuable lesson for both yourself and any others in a similar situation as to the necessity of engaging with the process and filling in the forms.

If you fail to appear when summonsed - regardless of whether you know about it or not - then the Magistrates are allowed to assume they can inflict the maximum sentence available to them which is how it is such a heavy fine. Now you know about you must as others have said apply to make a Stat Dec but and note this well you only have 21 days toe becoming aware - the clock is now ticking.

“Nothing in the last 5 years until this.”

Yes, you need to get your Statutory Declaration (SD) done asap and have the case started again.

Do not drive until you are sure that your disqualification has been lifted.

You need to ensure you attend any new hearing so that you can ensure your correct record is considered.

Beware that if you do your SD at a Magistrates’ Court you may be asked to enter a plea to the charge(s) there and then.

You should avold doing this until you have the details of the charges explained to you (which they will almost certainly be unable to provide).

You can do your SD at a solicitors for a nominal fee (about £10) which will avoid this entirely.

Now you know about you must as others have said apply to make a Stat Dec but and note this well you only have 21 days toe becoming aware - the clock is now ticking.

A court may not be able to give you an appointment within three weeks.

This is not an issue.

So long as you have applied to make your SD in time it will be accepted.

There is some other misleading information on here that must be corrected:

Ahh, had no idea how these newer licenses work. I had just assumed that it was the same as the old system, where it'd be a standard ban from a court rather than a revocation. Every day's a school day

There has never been a provision under the “New Drivers’ Legislation” for a court to impose a ban when a new driver reached 6 points.

The process has always been that the DVLA revoke the licence.

This is an administrative process against which there is no appeal.

It is not a judicial process imposed by the court and the court has no discretion in the matter.

As for not being convicted of both... I've seen it happen. The court 'decides' that the keeper was also the driver and infers that that is why they've not told the court any different, and if they're not in court to contest the point, well, you know the rest. The Magistrates may have been procedurally incorrect and it may have been overturned at a later date (I don't know that bit) but it has/does/can happen

It has never been acceptable for a court to “decide” that the RK was the driver or to make any inferences from their failure to admit to being so. This is true whether the defendant is present in court or not.

To prove an offence of speeding the prosecution must show

(a) that the prevailing limit was exceeded and

(b) that the defendant was the driver.

The usual way to obtain evidence for the latter is by an admission under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act (the duty to name the driver).

This obligation was challenged as being contrary to te European Convention on Human Rights by Gerard O’Halloran and Idris Francis in 2005 but the challenge was rejected by the ECHR.

Any Bench making such an assumption should

(a) be prevented from doing so by their legal advisor and

(b) in the very unlikely event of that not happening, would be admonished if the matter was appealed in the crown Court. The only way he can be convicted of both offences is to provide a S172 admission beyond the 28 days allowed (and thus be guilty of an offence) and that admission then being used to convict him of speeding.

This is extremely unusual.

Important.

What were your conviction codes from 2004 and 2013?

It makes no difference.

Even if the offences were those which remain “active” for ten years they only remain so for the purposes of determining whether an enhanced sentence is applicable for a second or subsequent similar offence committed in that time.

Any points imposed do not remain active for totting up purposes beyond three years.

If you fail to appear when summonsed - regardless of whether you know about it or not - then the Magistrates are allowed to assume they can inflict the maximum sentence available to them which is how it is such a heavy fine

Not correct.

Fines are calculated on the basis of net weekly income.

When the court has no details of a defendant’s income (whether because he is absent or for any other reason) they base their fines on an assumed default income of £440pw.

Thanks for all your advice and support

I have admitted that I didn't respond, can I still sign a statutory declaration?

Another point is that I am a HGV Driver. I haven't been doing this job since January (my last week was actually the time of this offence) but I am being laid off in early September in my current role and so I may need to go back to HGV. I have a girlfriend and a 13 year old in the house who rely on my wage to pay the rent too.

Thanks again

I have admitted that I didn't respond, can I still sign a statutory declaration?

Yes. You have been convicted of that very offence during a hearing of which you were not aware. You are entitled to a court hearing and if you were not aware of it for any reason you are entitled to make an SD.

Another point is that I am a HGV Driver. I haven't been doing this job since January (my last week was actually the time of this offence) but I am being laid off in early September in my current role and so I may need to go back to HGV. I have a girlfriend and a 13 year old in the house who rely on my wage to pay the rent too.

Before you worry about avoiding disqualification (because of exceptional hardship) you need to find out why you were disqualified and what the likelihood of you being disqualified again is. From what you have said I can see no reason why you were disqualified. The offence of failing to provide driver's details carries only six points. and you had no other active points on your licence. But you have received a "Totting Up" ban and you need to find out why that is.

Any update on the Stat Dec appointment/hearing?