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    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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My Stay's Been Lifted !! ** WON**


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:) Im scared to get excited but its hard not to!

I recieved a notice of a stay been put on my case, so thought got nothing to lose by objecting to it and sent in a request to lift the stay on the grounds of financial hardship which is easily proven at the moment.

2 weeks later i recieve a letter from the court -

 

District judge has considered the statements of case and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

 

1. The stay in proceedings be lifted at the request of the claimant

2. The hearing of the claim will take place on the 26 november.

 

so fingers crossed i may still get a decent xmas :)

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Wow, excellent job, lets hope that they cave beforehand, but be prepared for them not to submit any paperwork and then apply for another stay on the day, so you need to get prepared with a court bundle AND an objection to any stay that they might apply for, ring the court once a week to see if they have reapplyed. :D

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Wow, excellent job, lets hope that they cave beforehand, but be prepared for them not to submit any paperwork and then apply for another stay on the day, so you need to get prepared with a court bundle AND an objection to any stay that they might apply for, ring the court once a week to see if they have reapplyed. :D

 

Hi Lula,

 

How does it actually work on the day when the Bank apply for another stay. The Court already have your original request for a stay. Do you then have to hand over a duplicate copy of the stay already submitted or is there particular wording for this situation.

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look at this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html

 

they should re apply for a stay BEFORE the hearing, but alot of them are pitching up at the court ill prepared with just a request for a stay. its VERY naughty!!

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all, well it does'nt seem that they can re-apply for a second stay once the judge has agreed to lift the original stay, because i received an e-mail from Inga informing me that Abbey are prepared to come to a settlement agreement ! :eek: . my court date was for the 26th november so im lucky they havent dragged it out till then. I have e-mailed Inga back and informed them that for me to aggree to settlement out of court then the full original claim is what i would agree to settle on,this dosent include any intrest which would have amounted to around £500 so i think thats a fair settlement offer on my behalf!!:)

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Hi

 

Great news about your stay being lifted. The judge in my case is District Judge Hill. I wrote to him when I put my bundle in but he just stayed it anyway. I think I will have another go now though, hope you get a good settlement out of them now, keep in touch.

Simon:)

:)IF YOU ARE BORED WITH LITTLE TO DO:)

My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey - :!:WON / 19 November 2007:!:

 

SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go?

 

Me V Its4me and Close Premium Finance:!:WON / 28 November 2007:!:

 

IF I CAN HELP, I WILL, IF I DO, THEN PLEASE CLICK ON THE SCALES ON THE LEFT

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This is great news pinkbabez - well done! :D

 

Which court was this please?

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Thanks simon,he is also my judge, it was lifted on hardship grounds which i think is maybe the only grounds that are working.Abbey have proberly realised that this case was gonna go all the way so thought they might as well end it now seen as though their in a better position at the moment not having to deal with as many case's.

I think you shoud try to have it lifted,theres always hope my case prove's it !!:)

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The fact that Abbey have contacted you to offer a settlement proves you are in a strong position. By the sound of it they want the case to go away. If I were you I would ask for everything you would get if you went ahead with the case and won. They may make a few noises but they will pay, what other option have they got. At the end of the day the only other thing they can do is not turn up on the day, in which case the DJ will award you the lot anyway. Maybe they will turn up and defend the case ROFL. Although you will know whether that is the case because they will have to submit a CB weeks before the hearing. Hold out for the mother load is my advise make em pay!!!!

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Hiya, if they dont accept your offer then hold out, they will pay up cos this is a non starter, I dont know whether you have already offered Abbey a settlement figure, but if you have, and they dont accept, hold out for it all because they will pay up, and congratulations btw -)

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Hi Pinkbabes

 

Did you just follow the links on here to get your stay lifted?

 

Simon:)

:)IF YOU ARE BORED WITH LITTLE TO DO:)

My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey - :!:WON / 19 November 2007:!:

 

SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go?

 

Me V Its4me and Close Premium Finance:!:WON / 28 November 2007:!:

 

IF I CAN HELP, I WILL, IF I DO, THEN PLEASE CLICK ON THE SCALES ON THE LEFT

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this may be of interest - but also try and read "annoyed from caerphilly) on A&L

 

court stay lifted, new court date - must file a skeleton argument

 

see last post

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Hi all, quick update....... Inga emailed me today to give me an offer from abbey,its £400 less than my claim for £4'285 so im thinking thats pretty reasonable? though ive actually emailed har back to say that my final settlement amount would be £4'000 after all if i had taken it all the way i could have claimed intrest, but to be honest this is all wearing me out and i would like to see an end to it what with xmas on the way and all :)

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Hi all, quick update....... Inga emailed me today to give me an offer from abbey,its £400 less than my claim for £4'285 so im thinking thats pretty reasonable? though ive actually emailed har back to say that my final settlement amount would be £4'000 after all if i had taken it all the way i could have claimed intrest, but to be honest this is all wearing me out and i would like to see an end to it what with xmas on the way and all :)

 

 

£4k is reasonable, hold out for that. :D

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Did you contact Abbeys solicitors first, to see if the would resist the stay being lifted, or did you go straight to the court and apply via the N244?

 

I have read on here that it is worth contacting them first as it saves time, can't decide which is the best way! D'oh!

:)IF YOU ARE BORED WITH LITTLE TO DO:)

My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey - :!:WON / 19 November 2007:!:

 

SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go?

 

Me V Its4me and Close Premium Finance:!:WON / 28 November 2007:!:

 

IF I CAN HELP, I WILL, IF I DO, THEN PLEASE CLICK ON THE SCALES ON THE LEFT

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Hi simon, no i did'nt contact abbey or their solicitors i just got on with as in my last attempt to settle the claim with Inga they refused so i told Inga that i would have no further contact with them and it will all be dealt with the official way.I did'nt even have to have a hearing regarding the lift of the stay the just sent me a court date :)

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hi all

i have just been reading your thread today i have recived notice of hearing of application

heres what it says

the hearing of the climants application for the stay to be lifred (see copy attached) there is no copy attached so i have faxed the court

will take place at 14.00 on the 8th january 2008, at blackpool

then so far down it says

cases are listed in accordance with local hearing arrangements determind by the judiciary and implemented by the court staff.

every effert is made to ensure that hearings start either at the time specified or as soon as possible thereafter futhermore in some instances a case may be released to another judge possible at a diffrent court please contact your court for futher information on the listings arrangements that may apply to your hearing

.........end.......................................

 

is this what you got and do i have to turn up for it

thanku for any offer of advice

hugs

abg

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Hi abg, no i didnt get anything like that. After i sent in my request for the stay to be lifted it took about 3 weeks to deal with all i recieved was a letter saying .... at the request of the claiment the stay be lifted and fast tracked to the small claims court, after i received this that is when i started to contact abbeys solicitors again and they were very shocked at this,they asked me to send a copy of the new order then 2 weeks later they offer to settle out of court :)

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