PLEASE PLEASE HELP URGENT re HSBC and Metropolitan - am in right state

[CAGNewbie]

Please someone offer some help here - am panicking and no idea what to do.

 

I had a bank account with HSBC, got a loan, and a credit card. To cut long story short, partner went unemployed, I was paying eveything on Credit card (i know...) so did what I thought was sensible and consolidated into one loan and cut up the card. Then I got made redundant. Got another job on pittance, so coudn't afford repayments on the loan (now in excess of 20,000). So i spoke to them, got a managed loan account, got repayments down to still large but manageable figure. This was in May of 2007 ish.

 

Since then, hubby again lost job, got another in another area so we moved. had slight hiccup (one month in arrears I believe) with loan, but otherwise kept paying every month, DD from bank account to managed loan. Only thing is, when moved in the summer, I didn't change my address with HSBC. I know this ostrich like, but thought if just kept paying them... Which I have been doing, every month via standing order.

 

Rang HSBC today as screw up with other bank meant payment not made in time this month, will be sorted ASAP, expect Feb as usual, only to be told that account is closed, loan closed, gone to Metropolitan, contact them please.

 

Can they do that? And where have my payments been going? And how do I negotiate payments on 20,000 unsecured when earning nothing and already struggling with everything, and meant to be doing IVF and horribley afraid that they will try to bankrupt me or something.

 

What do i do?

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

Please try not to worry.

I'm not sure if metropolitan are part of HSBC but that's not important.

I'm assuming you are renting you home.

 

Your credit file will by now be shot to hell so don't expect to get any credit in the immediate future.

 

These people(!) cannot force you to pay more than you can afford. Only a judge can do that an a judge will take all your income and expenditure into account so these muppets won't want to go down that road if they can afford it.

 

Firstly, how long ago did you set up the new loan. If it's within the past 2-4 years they may have an agreement but what you could do is send HSBC a Subject Access Request to find out how much they have piled on to the loans, credit cards and overdrafts in charges. you can start a claim to have them refunded.

 

In the meantime send metropolitan A CCA request. This is not to actually get it, more a stalling tactic until you get your stuff from HSBC but don't tell them that.

Once you know how much is in charges, you can put in a claim for them to be refunded. This puts the account into dispute and then they can't do much until that is resolved.

 

If you need more help then just shout.

 

fox

[CAGNewbie]

Silverfox - thankyou. will send off CCA anyway - should I ring metropolitan to get address? Or does anyone know where I can find it so I don't have to talk to these people yet? Consolidated everything back in 2004/5, not sure which, but managed loan would have been about 2 years ago. I think. Sorry, brain fried today by bad news overdose...

 

What is a SAR and how do I go about doing that? And does it have to be only on managed loan if that a merge of accounts, or one per account etc? Do I send it to head office or to the branch i opened the account at?Sorry to be daft but not done this before...

 

My credit was dire anyway - so not alot of change there...

 

Biggest worry - can they CCJ me without me knowing? I know they can CCJ me if I ignore their letters, but I haven't had any as they don't have my address, but can they still go ahead anyway? Really really don't want to get another CCJ (have just satisfied one, with one joint one outstanding thanks to husband, don't need another).

[silverfox1961]

One SAR,

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

print but don't sign your name

Send that to HSBC's Registered office

 

 

 

If you want a CCA request too go here:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

You are going to have to give your new address as if they decide to take you to court they are going to send the claim form to your old address otherwise and then get a CCJ in default

 

Hang fire while an address for them appears.

 

fox

[silverfox1961]

Metropolitan collection Services Ltd

56 St James Road

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 1JL

[CAGNewbie]

THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU

 

will cca them and get details and SAR HSBC too.

 

Thankyou again!!!!

[silverfox1961]

Forgot to say something.

SAr costs £10

CCA costs £1

 

In each case send the money as a postal order, not a cheque

Send both requests by recorded delivery. These companies will deny ever receiving your letter if you send it normal post.

DO NOT sign your letters, just print your name.

In the letters state your previous address.

 

fox

[Pathway]

Also, Metropolitan and DG Solicitors (if it gets to them) are in house collections departments of HSBC Group - and not external companies as they like you to think!

[CAGNewbie]

Ok, letters are written as per the templates (thank you again!) and off to HSBC/Metrpolitan. Am guessing they will likely have the details as changes made not that long ago really (2 years isnt that long really) but time is good, helps me sort my head out if nothing else!

 

Will let you know how things progress here - so good to know that there are people out there who can advise and offer some support! makes me feel much better about it all!

 

Thanks again!

[Bev250264]

Hi

 

Sorry to hijack this thread but a bit of a technophobe and struggling to work out how to use this forum. We also have an issue with HSBC/Metropolitan and now Robinson Way.

 

My husband and I had a business we set up in 2001. We banked with HSBC and were given an overdraft and a business development loan. To cut a long story short, we were "shafted" by a client and the business folded in 2004. Our debts were referred to Metropolitan which I now know are part of HSBC and we were paying about £30 a month to them. We decided to take out a consolidation loan in 2006 and when we got a copy of our credit report, there were all sorts of entries both for HSBC and Metropolitan which all related to same thing. My husband contacted HSBC to be told that they had no record of any debts which was obviously because it had all been passed to Metropolitan. We wanted to pay them off with our consolidation loan but as the figures were all over the place, we requested Metropolitan send us evidence but they never did. Consequently, they weren't included in the consolidation.

 

Last January having just come home from hospital after badly breaking my leg, I got a call out of the blue. the woman on the other end of the phone refused to tell me who she was and refused to answer me when I asked if she was Metropolitan. She just kept saying that I needed to get my debit card and I was liable for these loans. I tried to tell her that I was laid up with a broken leg, in the house on my own and unable to get out the chair. I offered her my husband's mobile number but she simply wouldn't listen. She had me in tears in the end and I put the phone down on her.

 

My husband contacted Metropolitan to be told that they had passed the debts onto Robinson Way and that was who this woman was. Then started the fun and games. We received countless letters and phone calls from them. When we started the business, we weren't married but were married by the time it collapsed. RW insist on asking for me by my maiden name every time they call. I've taken now to telling them that there's no-one here of that name which really confuses them! HSBC had already defaulted us and then we had RW defaulting us as well. We managed to get RW to arrange for the HSBC defaults to be taken off but now there's another one appeared for a loan we apparently defaulted in 2005 - 12 months AFTER we defaulted on the original loan and overdraft. What bank in their right mind would give us another loan after we had already defaulted on £17,000???

 

I've been reading this forum and the brilliant advice but am a bit confused as to what letters I now need to send and to whom. HSBC have no record of us but still have this other default against us. We have refused to pay any further monies to RW until they have given us copies of our Credit Agreement (we have one very bad photocopy of one of them but not the other and nothing to say what the correct amounts are). Also, our credit file states that these debts relate to credit cards which they don't. Other than these entries, our credit file is ok with everything paid up to date and/or cleared. Our mortgage is up for renewal in April so I suppose I can assume we've had it as far as that's concerned.

 

So where do I start? I just want this to all get sorted out now. I'm fed up with all the calls and the letters and am scared they'll start 'doostepping'. Our credit report says that the defaults will be removed from our credit file after 6 years. Is that 6 years after the original default or 6 years after the last acknowledgement? Someone also told me that only HSBC can take us to court and not RW as they weren't the original creditor. Is that right?

 

Any help would be gratefully received.

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

this needs a thread all of its own as you do need some help

Look at this to get some idea of how to post:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html#post1027594

 

In the meantime, DO NOT speak to the muppets on the phone. Once you refuse to give out the sceurity information thay have to ask you for, it confuses the hell out of them.

Send them this:

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

 

Dear Sirs

Harassment by telephone

 

Account Number: XXXXXXX

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[NAME HERE]

 

 

 

AND this (just in case)

Dear xxxx

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours faithfully/sincerely,

 

Finally in the same letter send them this:

 

1 High Street,

Newtown,

Kent

R21 4RH

 

June 28, 2006

 

 

The Loan Company

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number 4563210025897412

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

 

 

 

If you don't know how to copy and paste, give a shout.

 

Send a £1 postal order with the last letter

Send it recorded delivery

Give them 12+2 working days to reply

Go to the postoffice website and do a track and trace after two or three days to see if the letter has been delivered. Print off the confirmation.

 

If you get stuck, shout good and long. Someone will come along and help (we're a friendly bunch )

 

fox

[CAGNewbie]

seems like HSBC and Metropolitan are an unhelpful and unpleasant bunch! Have sent of my two bits and pieces - so waiting 42 and 14 days for the SAR and CCA respectively (think those are right - when include postage time).

 

Am getting very nervous about possible/probable responses, and have no means currently to try to maintain payments as before - and besides if they have closed the account anyway... Means I miss January and February (just - used to be due on 8th) but if I am querying it anyway with CCA/SAR does this matter? Does a dispute only happen when the time limit is up, or from when they receive the letter and PO?

 

trying to convince myself that whatever happens it is better than not knowing at all. (this works until late at night when what remains of my brain kindly refuses to shut down!!)

[debbbbsy]

Once you refuse to give out the sceurity information thay have to ask you for, it confuses the hell out of them.

It's actually quite a good feeling, you confirm your name, then they ask for your address. You say "tell me what address you have on your system & I'll tell you if its correct". They can't, they have it, but because of the data protection act, if they tell you their breaking the law.......stalemate.

[ScarletPimpernel]

For added fun with HSBC call centres, ask them some security questions so you can confirm it's really HSBC you're talking to:

 

What's the company's registered number?

What's the name of the Chairman?

 

I used to do this whenever HSBC phoned me and I refused to answer their questions. Not one of their monkeys was ever able to answer either question.

 

With MCS, it's always interesting to tell them that the call is being recorded, and ask them to confirm that they are employed by Metropolitan Collection Services Ltd. - they won't, and in my experience they'll hang up if you push them. This is because MCS is a dormant company; all their staff work for HSBC, but they hate to admit it.

 

What will happen next, for CAGnewbies, is that HSBC will respond to your CCA request. If they don't have the agreement, or it's unenforceable, the letter will waffle on about how they have sufficient proof to convince any court that their was an agreement - it's bullsh1t, however. Plenty of us here have been through HSBC's cycle of drivel - here's my experience.

 

With the SAR, whilst HSBC's Data Compliance team in Sheffield are actually helpful, what often happens is that the Customer Services gang get it first and send copy statements and nothing else; if that happens, you should come back here and we'll give you a Letter Before Action to send, which will do the trick and you'll get everything.

[CAGNewbie]

That sounds like fun - would like to make them squirm!

 

The CCA and the SAR were officially delivered by Post Office on Tuesday - printed off the delivery confirmation from the website - so I know that they now have the requests and the clock is ticking...

 

Of course they also have my address now (not that it was a secret, every other EDITED WORD seemed to find it with no problems....!) so am expecting the odd call/letter as well.

 

Right - first step taken, waiting to see what next...

[joneseyblod]

Not trying to butt in but do you have a link to the LBA that gets everything from a Subject Access Request please?

 

Been dealing with HSBC/Metro and CCA and SAR request still have missing information.

[joneseyblod]

Or would you suggest going the Civil Procedure Rules request?

[CAGNewbie]

Well, on day 11 (counting from day after signed for receipt of CCA and SAR) I have received a letter from HSBC. I will post it up in a bit when can get to scanner. But in brief:

 

the letter says has been passed to Data Protection Compliance team in Canada Square. Before a search begins, they want to establish who I am as letter was not signed, only printed. So they have enclosed an application form that they want me to fill in and return, with a non-refundable admin fee.

 

They kindly point out that a full search will deliver everything to me including often repetitive print outs etc that may not answer my queries (implied - tax my little brain too much) so suggest I might prefer to request specific info from my local branch, help from the account manager etc and that they might waive the fee if I do this.

 

If I want everything, and they can't prove who I am from records, they may ask me to go to branch with ID.

 

Can they do this? I thought that with £10 and standard SAR letter (am assuming it is this, not the CCA via Metropolitan whom still heard nothing from) they had to give me my stuff, not delay and ask me to fill in forms and pay them a non-refundable fee! Or is this a standard letter sent to all who ask for info?(the fee they want is £10) Do I have to fill in the form? What do I reply to them? (other than to repeat in words of one syllable that I want everything, that's why I asked for it all!)

 

And what do I do re CCA request?

 

Thanks to all!!!!

[ScarletPimpernel]

The ICO is clear that a SAR can be in any form, as long as it makes clear that it is a SAR. This form is another HSBC game, designed to delay. They need a reminder of their obligations:

 

Dear Sirs

 

Thank you for your letter dated (date).

 

You have been served with a valid SAR pursuant to the Data Protection Act 1998, accompanied by the statutory fee. Your legal obligation is now to disclose all the data you hold on me. There is no reason for me to complete the form you sent, and I will not do so, nor will I pay any further fee.

 

If you require proof of my identity, even though you have to date been content to send confidential correspondence to me at the above address, I am prepared to provide such proof at the nearest HSBC branch.

 

Take notice that if you fail to comply fully and properly with the SAR within the statutory time limit I will bring proceedings against you and ask the County Court to order you to comply, and to pay me damages at the Court's discretion. I will also instigate a formal complaint with the Information Commissioner.

 

Yours etc.

[CAGNewbie]

Thanks for this - will send it today. Had a feeling they were trying it on again.

 

Sorry didn't get the letter up - snow intervened and couldn't get to scanner! Will put it up today (just to keep it all together and tidy!)

 

Had a thought (scary, I know!) - am SARing for managed loan, original bank account, original credit card and original loan(s) - will I be able to try to reclaim any charges/PPI on the originals despite the fact that they were closed and put into the managed loan? Think I will, but confirmation would be appreciated!

 

Thanks to all....

[itstheone]

I am prepared to provide such proof at the nearest HSBC branch.

 

Wont HSBC simply photocopy whatever is produced to send on?