MBNA Debt.

[Davidoff]

Hi all

 

MBNA has disputed my figures, will not freeze the interest and has continued to pile on the interest and charges for almost a year. I sent them the letter posted on this forum to stop them harrasing me by telephone, to remove my telephone numbers from their database and requested that they only deal with me in writing. However I am still receiving texts on my mobile to contact them - what are my options and what are the risks. I am frightened that I will be made bankrupt and will lose all I have (which by now isn't that much). Can I stop the interest and charges and how much can they add to my debt.

 

Would someone please confirm that I am doing the right thing here as I am scared. I have always had an excellent credit rating and this is my first brush with the financial world and it appears as though they can do what they want and can flout the law.

 

Due to recent changes in circumstances and the recession I am finding money very tight and the CC companies seem to be only interested in getting their pound of flesh.

 

every time the postman calls and the telephone rings.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

are there any charges you could re-claim ?

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Davidoff,

Welcome to CAG

As Maroondevo says, you're making the right choices, the main thing is to stick to your guns-you'll be feeling nervous about it at the moment but will gain confidence as you go along, with the help from CAG. We were all where you are at the beginning. Read as much as you can on here about others in similar situations.

Are you still paying MBNA the standard minimum monthly payment, is it a pre April 2007 account and have you requested a CCA from them?

Main thing is to get them all to prove that you owe them anything, and if so that the amount you owe is correct ie not including unfair charges.

Establish whether they have valid agreements first-if they have-do a Subject Access Request and claim back the charges. Then you can get them off your back for the remainder by putting the debt with a fee free debt management company such as Payplan or CCCS.

If they haven't-keep us posted and we'll help you deal with it.

Also- Have you received default notices for any of these accounts?

Well done for making a start!

All the best,

Elsa x

[Davidoff]

Thanks for all you support, it is very much appreciated.

 

Regarding MBNA, the agreement was only made in 2008 - I made a request for a CCA and received a copy of my signed application form which made references to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 but also referred to paragraphs which were not actually in the form. The application Form refers to Paragraph 4 but stops at Paragraph 3b.

 

I have a copy of the Credit Card Agreement booklet which it isn't signed or indeed has any place to sign and it seems as though they have copied some paragraphs from that booklet onto the Application Form but have stopped at paragraph 3b even though there are paragraphs 4 to 16 in the booklet.

 

Do you think that this is acceptable and, if not, what do you think I should do next?

 

Cheers.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Davidoff,

Unfortunately it's a different ball game for agreements made after April 2007, when the rules changed. Theoretically a court can order payment even without sight of the CCA, but can also vary the terms in your favour if it feels they are unfair etc. Very complex subject.

Are there any unfair charges on this account? Payment Protection Insurance?

How much are you paying them, if anything, at the moment?

Have they sent a Default Notice?

Regards,

Elsa x

[Davidoff]

Hi Elsa

 

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

 

with regard to the MBNA account, I don't have any PPI on this but I'm not sure what constitutes "unfair charges".

 

I made a complaint and their advocate agreed a 2 month interest free period as she felt my call had been handled badly, but this period has now passed and I am receiving these charges on the account again. The advocate also stated that my problem is considered to be a short term one. I am over 60, unemployed and with the country in a recession I have little chance of getting a job which would pay me enough to get rid of these large debts. I have been looking for a job for the last 12 months with no success so I believe this to be a long term problem.

 

I stopped paying MBNA anything as of last month and asked them to take me to court (as suggested by National Debt line when an offer is not accepted). I feel that, even after paying all my debtors what I could afford, because MBNA are still applying interest and late/missed payment charges my debt is spiraling out of control.

 

I have also sent them a letter (from this forum) to get them to remove my telephone numbers from their database and therefore stop them making harassing calls. Most of these calls have stopped but I did receive a text message to call them this week as, in their words, "You have not responded to our messages - please help us to help you by calling 01244681595". Obviously my telephone number is therefore still on their database - should I do anything about this or would it just be a waste of time?

 

I called them up some weeks ago and was told I had to pay £6 (I have no idea what this £6 was for). I naively paid this over the phone using a debit card. I was then told I should arrange a time when my account manager could call me but that this could not be until after the Thursday of that week. I didn't understand why I couldn't discuss it there and then until I received my next statement which showed anther £74 interest on my account - how despicable!

 

MBNA are levying approx £74 interest each month plus £25 late/missed payment charges. This is despite the fact that they have stated that the most I can pay is £55. The £55 they mention, on top of all my other debt payments, is still somewhat more than I can afford to pay.

 

I arranged for my account manager to call on the Saturday to discuss my figures (even though I didn't believe they would accept a figure I could afford) between 10:00 and 11:00 but he didn't call. Is this normal deliberately destabilising behaviour for the banks?

 

Since then I have received the previously mentioned text but nothing else - so far anyway.

 

Are these charges fair? I believe that MBNA are either:

 

a) trying to make the debt I owe them a bigger proportion of my overall debt in order to obtain a larger pro-rata payment.

b) to make the debt look more appealing to a debt collection agency so they can sell it on

c) to try and frighten me into paying more than I can afford.

 

Am I being paranoid?

 

Your comments and advice would be most helpful.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Davidoff

Re the MBNA credit card account- there's lots around on CAG about it but for convenience check out this very inclusive guide with template letters:

Reclaim Credit Card Charges: Full guide to get £100s back...

 

If you have had fees slapped on for late payments, going over the limit etc a significant proportion of these can be reclaimed, with interest. Sometimes the bank will haggle but ultimately pay up after a few choice letters,, sometimes you have to force their hand by complaining to the Financial Ombudsman or making a Claim through the Small Claims Courts.

As it's a post 2007 agreement therefore probably enforceable, this would be a good way to go, to reduce the debt. This is a valid dispute which should cause them to hold off till it's resolved.

They will tend to treat your problem as "short term" whilever you are paying them anything. Once you withhold payment they will reclassify you as long term and hopefully then you may be able to negotiate more strongly. Best advice I can give on this one is reduce it as much as you can by claiming back charges, then negotiate for reduced payments and frozen interest, if necessary through Payplan or CCCS, the free Debt Management Companies.

Another possible route is if they have sent, or send you a faulty default notice. Always save these with envelopes. Let us know if you get one and we'll check it for validity.

 

I'll catch you later when you've had chance to read up on it.

Thanks for the nudge

Elsa xx

[Davidoff]

Hi Elsa

 

Many, many thanks for your help.

 

I have received a few late payment charges which I intend to claim back if it is worth it as they are not that much and were for £12 each time.

 

I also have several Default Notices from MBNA, some of which I have the envelopes for (only saw this info recently) which I would like to post but don't know how to - would you please advise.

 

I would also like to post the CCA which is in fact my CC Application, but again don't know how to. Although this is post 2007 it has, in my opinion, some dodgy stuff in it such as:

 

it doesn't state that MBNA can change the interest rate to a higher amount with just 14 days notice in the CCA but it does in the Terms and Conditions booklet that only came with the card.

 

It states that details of other service charges are set out in paragraph 4 but this doesn't show on the application only in the Terms and Conditions booklet which was not available at the time of taking out the CC.

 

Most interestingly it states: "Data Protection Notice - before you sign this agreement please read sections 13 and 14 in the terms and conditions provided." As these are in the Terms and conditions booklet and not provided on the application form you are not able to read them before you sign the form. i.e. they will not send you the card and the terms and conditions until you sign the CC application but they advise you not to sign the CC application unless you have read them - dah!!

 

It states that the APR is 16.9% APR variable (a year) but also states that the min interest charge they will make in any statement period is £1 - contradicting the APR statement.

 

Section 2g states - "in working out the APR we have not taken into account of any changes in interest rates or handling fees or any annual fee. We may charge these and may introduce new fees by giving you notice under paragraph 11a." N.B. Paragraph 11a is not in the CCA - it is only in the Terms and Conditions booklet which was sent with the card.

 

In the Terms an Conditions booklet it also states that they will apply the charges directly to the account and that they may change the amount of these default charges by giving you notice under paragraph 11a.

 

In section 3a it also refers to a £12 charge each time you go over your credit limit but that this charge will only be applied once per statement period. Is this an unfair charge.

 

I am only a lay person but can this CC Application Form truly be an enforceable CCA?

 

Thanks again Elsa.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Davidoff
Typos

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Davidoff,

I see you were burning the midnight oil!

To post up on here, scan the document and blank out any personal info that can identify you, including amounts, any barcodes or reference numbers, but not dates.

Go to "tinypic.com" and follow instructions to upload image, then copy the code it gives you for displaying on a forum or blog.

Start a reply post, and paste in the code. Any problems, just shout.

 

Some of the terms of the agreement do seem odd, but post April 2007 agreements come under revised rules so are usually enforceable as mentioned, although it's up to the judge who can vary anything he thinks is unfair.

It's new ground, but you could start by researching the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 to see if anything applies.

 

For more info on the importance of Default Notices, start here.

 

Elsa xx

[Davidoff]

Hi

 

I have had some trouble posting the docs as I don't have any editing software to blank out the personal details.

 

MBNA have now reclassified my problem as long term and I have been trying to negotiate with my account holder for a long term payment plan. However, he has insisted I complete their budget sheet which along with incom and expenditure demands information on TV's, cars, goods with a value over £500, etc and, although I personally don't have anything (inc. a car) my wife does and as she is not the debtor I don't see why I should provide it. He also insists on dealing over the phone so I am very dubious about his true intentions. Can you advise?

 

 

 

Your assistance is greatly appreciated - even if you can just point the way to a thread which covers this aspect.

 

Best regards

 

Davidoff

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Here's an idea. Do you have a scanner? If so, just scan as normal (which is what a scanner is after all), then use a black marker to blank out your personal details. Or just photocopy it, seems straight forward to me then. Scan the copy with the blanked out details then upload. Also, if you do have a scanner, most also have the faculty for a very basic photoeditor built into the user interface.

 

Or

 

If you have it (no need for editing software at all) Paint can also be used to blank out details on letters, just need to outline the area you want to cut from the scanned image, and it's done, blank. Most PCs come with it as standard. Paint can be found in your START MENU under ALL PROGRAMS, then ACCESSORIES normally in either XP or VISTA or any Windows based platforms normally. In fact, it's what I use myself to blank out such documents.

 

 

However, he has insisted I complete their budget sheet which along with incom and expenditure demands information on TV's,

As to that, nope. This is advice I received from CCCS quite a while ago and from what I have read in the meantime. Normal I/E or financial statements are compiled using the Banking Code (British Banking Association, can't remember the other logo), CCCS for example has that logo stamped on the bottom of theirs so a creditor knows it's been completed to the basic requirements. Got to be honest here, but what relevence does the value of property in your home have? I don't make sense of that. Except they are looking for ways to maybe make you pay more - which is, after all the ultimate goal of any creditor issued income/expenditure sheet because they ask for more info than is actually required, seeking to see what extrananous expenditure you could cut down on. CCCS BTW told me about that a while ago when faced with a similar situation. Only provide them with what they need to know for the purposes of assessing your situation. As you already seem to have worked out, do not complete it. They can insist all they like over the phone, they only follow a script for starters. Doesn't mean you have to do what they say. It sounds like an 'in house' one which they will argue until Hell freezes over it's 'acceptable' and 'company procedures (that conveniently ignore what industry standards are and which they claim to adhere to)' refusing to negotiate with you til you complete it. The usual, then.

 

Sorry for the long post but I was slightly confused over what they were asking you to list in the income/expenditure sheet.

 

Lastly, pay what you can even if it's a £1 per month. That way, later on, you have proof you were willing to make payments but the creditor concerned were obstructive in the negotiation process by being unwilling to acknowledge your situation.

 

Finally, no more phone contact with these people.

 

(although they would never put this in writing).

Yep, exactly, they never do and never will. Therein lies the lesson of phoning them, because you have no physical proof they've agreed to anything.

 

But regarding your request about removing your phone number. You've done the right thing there but unfortunately it's usually ignored. What you could do is report them to someone (can't think whom right now) as they have failed to comply with a Data Protection Act request, by removing your phone number on request. Continuing to harass you also.

 

But! I must warn you and also useful for anyone else. Each time you phone, whether from a witheld number their system makes a record of it (depends what computer system they are using but it's completely possible, has been for however long now). They won't tell you, either. Then it just starts it off again. It's all wrong, but ... well, you've seen how slippery they can be already.

 

Oh, the Default Notices? Many of them are worded incorrectly and, as I've found myself, many are also false DN. Never recorded on my credit record. In order to be a compliant DN, they must be worded properly. I've seen some with some most bizarre dates on them, as well as amounts.

 

But, anyway, you'd really need to put a copy of what you've received for anyone to give a firm opinion on the subject to hand.

 

PS If it is post 2007, then definitely people on CAG would need to see it. Pre 2007, a different matter for example. You seem to be aware of these differences, though, regarding post 2007 issue credit agreements.

 

PPS The whole lot just sounds very confusing, so apologies for my meandering post.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[Davidoff]

Thanks Cartaphilus, I have sent them a letter stating I will not entertain any more phone calls and that is the end of it. I have also sent them my own budget sheet which if they don't accept I will send a letter telling them to take me to court.

 

Your reply was as short as it could be given the info I had posted previously - it's good to get confirmation that I am doing the right thing. I'll also do what you suggested with regard to blanking out my details and will post the DN's. Probably be tomorrow now though as I have to pick up wife from work and keep the toddler happy in the meantime.

[dx100uk]

thread and attachments tidied

 

posts from other threads merged to here too.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

quite honestly, your really need to drop the 'hope'

that a paperwork wriggle will get you out of paying this debt

 

if there IS a clear financial 'link' and statement of 'use'

 

are you REALLY hoping to stand up infront of a judge an basically say 'this debt is not mine'

 

dx

 

dx