Dca

[heavenly1]

I have about 4 debts which are currently with Decbt Collection Agencies.

I have made an agreement to pay the amounts owing through Payplan and they have been happy with it so far.

 

Can I request for them to now send me a copy credit agreements without upsetting them. I had a Goldfish account that was passed to Westcot which the agreement was done 12 years ago when they were a part of HFC bank. (Hoping they may not find it.) Even though I having been making all my payments if they were not able to locate the agreement within the correct time would they have to write off the debt.

[heavenly1]

HI,

 

Would it be possible for someone to answer the above question. I am looking to start the whole process as soon as I can.

 

Thanks

[Turnaround]

If I have understood your post correctly, you are contemplating trying to evade the debt.

 

This could be why you haven't and wont get any advice.

 

Regards...Turnaround

[heavenly1]

Thank you Turnaround for your response.

 

I have been paying all my creditors through Payplan for almost a year now. I have made every effort to clear all of my debts in FULL. I have also managed to clear ones that didn't go to a DCA because of the trouble I had with them a year ago and I have also paid the charges which have been applied to my accounts. I would hate to think that people thought I was trying to evade paying my debts by reading my post. It did take a lot of courage for my to put a post on here but I saw that everyone else was getting great and supporting advice/comments from others.

The only reason why I am now decided to go down this route is because over the last few weeks a dca has been making my life hell and I have even resulted into tears in front of my 2 small children after speaking to them, and trying to plea with them to be patient with what I was already paying until I am able to increase the payments. But they want me to pay them money which I just don't have. If this had not had happened I would have continued to carry on as I was.

I have read responses to other posting that people have said "get back all your entitled to" I have seen other congraulate people on their sucessful wins and not having to pay their debts because the compaines have not complied with the law. Is this not people using a valid law and trying to evade their debt also?

 

I really do appricate what you have said, even though I am hurt by it. At least you manged to reply what others were maybe thinking. It just proves to myself why I don't post on websites because I don't want others to misunderstand me.

I think I will just stick to reading post from now on. At least that way I won't be judged just because people don't know my full story.

 

Thanks

[Turnaround]

Please dont be hurt, this was not my intention. Now you have explained the situation it can be viewed and advised on better. I will again read through it and try to help.

 

Regards...Turnaround

[Turnaround]

My gut reaction would be to present PayPlan with the correspondence from the DCA and let them sort it. You can't pay what you can't afford and its unfair that they should harrass you.

 

At the end of the day, a DCA has no more rights than your nieghbour and if you keep that in mind it will help you fend off these bullies.

 

If you feel strong enough, write to the DCA, DONT PHONE, explaining you cant afford any more as you have to treat all your creditors equally and enclose an I&E to show this.

 

As you have been paying regulary, no DCA in the land would take you to court for not being able to pay more!!!

 

As for as any unfair charges on your account, then by all means ask them for a statement of account. It should not upset them as they have to regulary provide them to you. Study your fees, payments etc and get back to us.

 

It grieves me also, that when a DCA doesn't abide by the law or its statutary obligations that people get hurt. DCA's know the laws and regulations and why they cant get it right from the outset is beyond me.

 

It would appear to me that, by all means send the CCA letters to ensure they have the correct documentation to allow them to pursue the debt, but bear in mind that as you have been paying, this is an acknowlegeing the debt.

 

We are here to help, please accept my appologise if I upset you as this was not my intention.

 

Kind regards.....Turnaround

[heavenly1]

Thank you Turnaround, no real harm done. I am still breathing after all...

Payplan have been made aware of the DCA written refusal to continue with the payments I have been making with MBNA. I am now waiting for their next letter because they said they would take it further. Infact they said they would place a charge on my property and even force a sale.

I will send a cca to them to make sure they have the correct documention to persue the debt. My account did also incur alot of charges so I may try and get that back from MBNA. It would help to reduce the outstanding amount I have at the moment.

Once again thanks

[andrew1]

Heavenly, if I may also add to Turnarounds words, do not be intimidated by the dca. There are letters to stop telephone calls and of course Acts of Parliament to stop them they have been found and used by CAG members to good effect. You must not let them get the upper hand by letting them get at you. Try something like this and add your top and tail and you can add the breach to the Wireless and Telegraphy Act 1949 to boot : with greatful thanks to HagenUK :

 

Dear .......

 

Re:Telephone calls from your company

 

I hereby request that with immediate effect all communication from your company is in future by written communication only.

 

As I am sure you are aware Harassment of Debtors is a criminal offence in England and Wales under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Furthermore, continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

In addition every individual has a right to be free from harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

The offence of causing harassment is arrestable under the provisions of Section 24(2) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 and attracts the powers associated with such offences. Additionally Section 3 enables a person who is, or may become, the victim of behaviour prohibited by Section 1 to take civil proceedings against the perpetrator.

 

Further it is my contention that your company is in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines on harassment.

 

As you have demonstrably failed to honour your written pledge I feel I have no option but to report your conduct to the relevant statutory authorities, including Trading Standards, the Financial Services Authority and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

If I should receive another telephone call from any person from your company at any point then I will be contacting the police to report the criminal office of harassment and will be naming you in my statement to the police.

 

I trust that I have made myself clear and that all future correspondence with your company will be in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

xxx

 

 

 

 

That should keep them quiet!

 

 

 

If my posts are helpful please click my scales

[Turnaround]

If the problem is phone calls then use the letter posted by andrew1, it realy works. Thanks andrew1.

 

If its letters from a MBNA, I would discount this as the normal MBNA distress tactics - if the debt is unsecured then there is very little likely hood of carrying this through.

 

MBNA are masters of harrassment and mental battery in the form of phone calls and letters. If they want to carry out what they state, they must file for a county court judgement - highly unlikely as if successfull the management of the debt goes out of their hands and into the courts - and it will be they who decide how much should be paid and whether a charging order is necessary.

 

When your CCA request comes back if there is NO signed true copy of the original agreement then they cant enforce the debt, but they can argue that as you have been paying then they can.

 

Its also worth asking them for a copy of your permision for them to process your data. The reason being, along with the letter of assignment they should of included a request for your permision to process your data and alot dont do this. You gave the original crediter your consent in the T&C of the original agreement, but they can't pass that consent on. If they have'nt got your consent they cant process your data and are breaking the DPA laws and you can stop them processing it and report them. You can also get defaults removed in this way and good thread to read is "Default Hell" if you can find it.

 

Hope this gives you light at the end of the tunnel

 

Regards...Turnaround

[Turnaround]

Sorry heres the link

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/20118-default-hell-3.html?highlight=surlybonds#post177850

 

Try and read all the thread, I know its long but full of info for future use!!!

 

Regards....Turnaround

[heavenly1]

Thank you Tunaround and Andrew1.

 

I have sent cca request to the DCA'S, all were sent recorded and I have check on the royal mail website that they have all been received today....12 days and counting.

 

I have checked my credit file on line and have found that 1st Credit have registered a default against me, which confirms that MBNA have indeed sold my account to them. I did receive a default notice from MBNA, but I never received one from 1st credit. Wescot also have a default against me but they never sent me a default notice, but I did get one from Goldfish when my account was with them.

 

After reading the postings I have decided to persue getting my charges back which is a large portion of the outstanding balances.

 

I may have a problem with my Goldfish card (which is now with wescot). I had my card when Goldfish was first launched and while it was with HFC Bank. Since then it has gone to Lloyds and is now Morgan Stanley own Goldfish. Would I still be able to claim the charges back from them? I would be very surprised if they even still had my account on their system. I do have a few statements but a lot of them are now missing. Would it be worth me send them a subject access request. This debt is now showing on my credit file under Wescot who I am paying now through Payplan.

 

I have not yet made a payment to 1st Credit as the last payment went to MBNA. I will send a request for Payplan not to send them any money. I am going to try and find out if I can continue to make my payments to Payplan but for them to withhold the payment from 1st credit until this has been resolved. Would this be the right thing to do?

 

I am now happy to fight back now I have seen this website. I no longer think about upsetting them, they had no problems in upsetting me at the time and threathing me with all kinds.

 

For once I am now longer forward to receiving post from a DCA - it will be interesting.

 

I will continue to read the post and I will read default hell which is just amazing. I am learning so much and realise that I don't have to accept the abuse from them or go on their word.

 

I shall post again with any updates it will keep me going....

 

[andrew1]

Empowering - isn't it ! You seem to be getting to grips with it all. It takes a while to get the hang of the principles but you just add a bit here and there to what you already know and then with input like Turnarounds and others you gradually build a picture of what's right for you personnaly as everyone has different needs and circumstances. Then when the picture becomes clear you start to feel more and more confident and in control of your life again. Then you don't have to run away from your problems or let anyone else have to deal with them - you take control and hey presto life becomes sweeter All of these companies you have quoted are approachable - I have made progress with most of mine some directly some with a little help of a threat of legal but you'll find the people to talk to ( not customer service plebs) who can action your requests. Your difficulty is to establish who owns what but the CCA's will deal with that, then you can look at the defaults and the Default Hell thread Turnaround has pointed you to is truely amazing once you understand what he's done.

 

Let us go forth and multiply

 

Keep strong.

[heavenly1]

Hi

 

1st credit have now banked my £1 cheque for my cca request (10 days and counting). I'm just waiting to see if the others will cash theirs in a few days.

 

I had received a default notice from MBNA for the amount I owe them about a month ago. I have checked on my credit file and the default is now under 1st credit's name. Can they do that. I haven't defaulted on anything with 1st Credit. They have never sent me a default notice. No repayment plan has been agreed with them, but yet still it shows that I have defaulted on their agreement which hasn't even started.

 

I am a bit confused with the passing of debts. If I have defaulted on an agreement with MBNA, I know that my credit file would reflect this with a status 8. But if the debt has been passed over to a dca and the old agreement has been terminated by MBNA why would my credit file show that I have a default with 1st credit when I have never paid them anything.

 

Sorry if this is a silly question, but it would be nice to understand it.

 

Thanks

[andrew1]

Nothing you ask on this forum will ever be deemed silly - got that ?

 

Right, . Now, you can only have one default per debt so one or the other should come off. I am led to believe that MBNA should remain as they are the people who defaulted you in the first place. However, debt collection companies seem to automatically register a default the minute they buy the debt. I'll check this bit out and come back to you.

[heavenly1]

Thank you andrew1.

 

I do only have one default for this amount but it is under the name of 1st credit and not MBNA.

I will be sending my prelim letter to MBNA for a total of £1122.46 including compound interest. Can I still claim back the charges even though I haven't paid off the amount I owe. I wouldn't mind this amount was set off against the debt outstanding.

 

Thanks

[ozzywizard]

Yeah you can defo still claim it back. As you said though on release of funds they will probably put it against the outstanding balance but that is a good thing for you as it gets the debt paid off.

[andrew1]

Thank you andrew1.

 

I do only have one default for this amount but it is under the name of 1st credit and not MBNA.

I will be sending my prelim letter to MBNA for a total of £1122.46 including compound interest. Can I still claim back the charges even though I haven't paid off the amount I owe. I wouldn't mind this amount was set off against the debt outstanding.

 

Thanks

 

 

Yes of course you can ! once you know the figure they just credit it to your account and you sleep easier knowing it's a lower amount you owe. Go for it....

[Turnaround]

With regards to your default from 1st Credit.

 

This is where reading that "default hell" thread comes in.

 

Ask 1st credit for proof that you gave them written consent to handle your personal data. If they cant provide this, then they must stop processing your data and remove any default.

 

This provision is in CCA section 159 + 174.

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards.....Turnaround

[heavenly1]

Today I have received a reply from 1st credit,

 

"I refer to your communication asking 1st Credit Ltd to provide you with a copy of the relevant agreement.

We will shortly be advising our client of your request. This document will be sent to you as soon as possible. This process may take at least one month.

Once you have received a copy of this agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediatley to arrange settlement of this debt.

Please call this office should you wish to discuss this matter."

 

Must be just their normal letter they send to everyone. They are the first to acknowledge my request and the first to cash my check. (Is this a bad sign?)

 

Has 1st credit managed to locate anyones original agreement. Will I be the first customer they find the agreement for.

 

I have also received my Equifax file today and 1st credit have registered the same default twice.

 

Tunaround you mentioned that 1st credit should have written consent to handle my personal data. I haven't signed anything with 1st credit should this be happening then. I can't imagine that they would just go away if I was to tell them that they don't have my consent to handle my data.

 

Anyway they have until the 2nd November to find my documents.

 

Thanks

[Turnaround]

Tunaround you mentioned that 1st credit should have written consent to handle my personal data. I haven't signed anything with 1st credit should this be happening then. I can't imagine that they would just go away if I was to tell them that they don't have my consent to handle my data.

 

 

They have a lot of explaining to the Information Commissioner if they don’t have your permission. You can’t process any personal data without the subjects consent. FULL STOP. If you do the solids hit the air-conditioning and the data subject may then be eligible for compensation for the distress caused, Data Protection Act section (13).

 

To quickly explain;

When you first take out credit with the provider, you sign a credit agreement. Within this credit agreement you give the provider permission to use and share your personal data, to a CRA for instance. When they sell the debt this consent cannot be transferred to a third party.

 

When a DCA buys the debt and then approaches you, there are two points to understand and each is important but different.

1. The DCA has to prove the debt is yours.
   
2. The DCA has to prove they have your permission to process your data.

With the CCA letter you are asking for proof that you owe the debt. This will be in the form of the signed true copy of the original agreement. And proof they now own the debt i.e. Deed of Assignment. This is why the CCA request is so important. If they cannot supply all the relevant documentation then the debt is unenforceable, that is to say they can only ask for payment and not take any action. However, if it does turn up then they can take action.

 

As for your data, when a DCA purchases the debt, when they first contact you, they must provide you with a deed of assignment PLUS a letter for you to sign containing authorisation for them to process your data. This is because the credit provider cannot transfer your original permission. Not having your permission means they, the DCA cannot process your personal data or pass it to any third parties, as this data is unsubstantiated and therefore can’t contact the Credit Reference Agencies to lodge defaults. Any defaults lodged can be removed under the provision of CCA section (159) and to stop them processing your personal comes under CCA section (174). Reading "default hell" shows that they have to abide by your rights even though this severely restricts and often halts them managing your data i.e. your account.

 

Because the DCA hasn’t followed the correct procedure means they have now got the problem of not being able to satisfy the requirements of either the CCA or the DPA. And consequently fall foul of the law with the threat of summary conviction even if they don’t continue. Now faced with a "hot potato" they have the choice of dropping it or burning their fingers. Whether they go away is an option they have to seriously consider, especially when the Information Commissioner gets involved.

 

I hope you can understand the difference, but both are important in there own way.

 

Regards.....Turnaround

 

 

 

[heavenly1]

I have just had another letter from 1st credit dated 27/10/2006. arrrhhhhh

 

"We acknowledge receipt of your recent communication and instalment offer.

We regret to advise you that we are not prepared to accept the offer detailed in your communication. The reason for this is that we are concerned at the lenght of time it will take for you to clear your outstanding account.

We have recently obtaibed office copy entries from Land Registry and note thay you own / jointly own the freehold / leasehold interest in the above property. As a result of this we are now passing your account to our solicitors with instructions to secure a County Court Judgment against you and enforce this by way of a Findal Charging Order registered against your property.

Should we succeed in obtaining a Final Charging Order, we will give serious consideration to applying to the court for an 'Order For Sale' of your property.

Please note that any legal action will incur substantial legal costs and on-going interest that you will be liable for. We would strongly recommend that you seek legal advice should you require further information regarding the implications of a Final Charging Order.

Alternatively you may wish to contact 1st Crdit to discuss settlement of this long overdue debt. Legal action is only ever taken as a last resort when we are unable to reach a mutually acceptable and reasonable arrangement."

 

I had sent 1st credit my cca request 16/10/06 they received it on the 17/10/06 and then they cashed my £1 cheque on 19/10/06. They now only have until 2/11/06 to provide me with a copy of my signed agreement, even though they sent a letter dated on 20th oct that it may take at least a month.

 

I thought they couldn't apply for a ccj if they haven't yet provided me with my documents? I am getting quite worried now. I know they want to try and force me to sell my home, that is all they ever tell me.

 

Has anyone had this letter sent to them by 1st credit after they acknowledge cca request. I hate to say it but I now really hope they don't find my original credit agreement, they have given me sooooo much stick...

[andrew1]

Don't worry heavenly, we haven't abandoned you we are just trying to get our facts right and we'll be back - hold on !

[phunkeymonkeh]

 

"

Should we succeed in obtaining a Final Charging Order, we will give serious consideration to applying to the court for an 'Order For Sale' of your property.

."

quote]

 

Sure...thats going to happen...

[demon_x_slash]

Scare tactics again...these guys are scumbags with added weasel relish...

[heavenly1]

Scare tactics again...these guys are scumbags with added weasel relish...

 

I have to say that these scare tactics are working on me. I feel like they are determined to make my life hell just because they can.