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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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Liability Personal Gurantee ~ Screwfix Direct


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Hi Peter

 

I realise that this is quite an old post, but I have recently received the very same letter from screw fix solicitors with the same guarantee wording signed by me. Could you let me know how you got on with your defence as I am about to reply using the wording given in reply to your post.

 

Many thanks

 

Nick

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Hi,

 

I am new to the forum and discovered this site whilst looking for advice. I received a letter this morning from solicitors chasing an unpaid account which related to a company I was previously a Director of. They enclosed a copy of the credit application form which I had signed back in 2009 and stated that I was personally liable for the debt given the wording. the company has since gone into liquidation however I have resigned prior to this and resigned from the board also, albeit a month prior to the companies demise.

 

I have looked at similar posts within the forum and planned to respond as detailed below, but would appreciate any advice in this respect as I suspect this may not be the last letter I receive.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 27th April and refute your claim that I am personally liable for the unpaid invoice you refer to in your letter on the following grounds.

 

1. Misrepresentation - the document is headed 'Credit Account Application Form' and for it to be a Personal Guarantee is misrepresentation by creditor.

2. I did not sign the Application Form in a personal capacity but as a Director of xx Limited. It is further submitted that if this Application Form is found to be a guarantee it has an unreasonable indemnity clause within the meaning of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (”the 1977 Act”). The form that is the subject of this guarantee was between the Claimant and xx Ltd. My involvement as a guarantor was purely a personal matter between myself and xx Ltd.

3. My trade or profession is not that of guarantor and I did not provide this guarantee in return for a fee or commission. It is therefore submitted that I was ”dealing as a consumer” within the meaning of section 12 of the 1977 Act (R & B Customs Brokers Company Ltd v United Dominions Trust Ltd [1987] EWCA Civ 3).

4. As a result of the above case, the guarantee must be reasonable and it is submitted that the guarantee does not meet the reasonableness test of section 11 of the UCTA1977 Act and it is noted that by subsection (5) that it is for those claiming that a contract term or notice satisfies the requirement of reasonableness to show that it does.

5. It is my belief that the guarantee does not meet the reasonableness test for the following reasons.

a. I had no intention of entering into a personal guarantee

b. What is purporting to be a personal liability is incorporated in the body of a document which is clearly designed to impose liability on MARS (Construction) Limited and not myself personally.

c. It has been shown above that I am a consumer in this case. Under the Unfair Terms (Consumer Contract) Regulations 1999 (regulation 8) an unfair term is not binding on the consumer and therefore I cannot be held liable for the xx Limited debt.

d. Under regulation 5(1) of the UTCCR a contractual term that is not individually negotiated will be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirements of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer. The Application Form was clearly pre-printed and was a standard form of the Claimant and therefore cannot have been individually negotiated. By trying to pass the liability of a third party to myself, without my knowledge, there has clearly been a imbalance in the parties rights and is to the detriment of myself financially.

 

Given the above I consider the matter closed and request that you withdraw your claim in writing by return.

 

Any advice you can give would be appreciated as I am worried what may be in store for the coming months.

 

Nick

Edited by Nick wheatley
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Hi Nick,

 

I have seen and heard of so many of this type of agreement / PG used not only by Screwfix and associated companies but many builders merchants and the like.

 

The wording IMHO is misleading, detrimental to the signee and should be subject to scrutiny by the OFT. I know personally of one 25 year old secretary that signed the form as an application for her employer in the capacity as an authorised person to do so on behalf of the company, who 6 months later left the company, for the company to liquidate 3 years later, and for these lowlifes to seek a claim in default (moved address) and ICO on her house for a debt incurred by her employer - some 27k worth inc charges.

 

These types of agreement need binning and I can only suggest that companies DO NOT sign with the suppliers that word as such a credit app form.

 

You seem well versed in the legal standing, it is certainly my understanding that the question of capacity should be litigated, and I wish you well in your own case, and please post any conclusion to this, as you certainly will help others.

 

All the best

 

N

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Hi N

 

Thanks for your reply. I agree with your thoughts, and I have learnt a very valuable lesson as my time as a director. Unfortunately, my understanding of the legal ramifications may be misleading as I have taken most of the wording of my letter from advice given within another post, credit I believe is owed to "toddle2u".

 

I am very concerned personally as I had signed a number of credit account applications in my role and believe this may be the start of many letters of this nature. To this end I am looking for any advice I can get with a view to defending my position.

 

Many thanks for your reply

 

Nick

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Hi Nick

I wish it was good news, but in my case it is not. They took me to court and a hearing date was set. I agreed to arbitration and they did as well. I have to say that the process was not a lot of use really. The arbitrator just told me how good a case Screwfix believed they had and confirmed that they would proceed to court if I did not settle. My arguments seemed to fall upon deaf ears and I very much got the impression that I should make a offer to settle, as Screwfix were saying that if it went to a hearing they would seek extra costs from me. In the end I made a offer and they settled and the cheque went off the next week.

I did use all the arguments that had been post on this site, but received a very long solicitors letter challenging each one.

Like I said, not good news really, but I did manage to settle for less than they were originally asking for, but I do sometimes wish I had gone for my hour in court really.

Regards

 

Peter

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Hi Chris

 

Sorry to hijack your post but I also find myself in a very similar situation. I received l letter yesterday from solicitors representing screwfix. I had signed a credit application form as a director of the business with the wording "I confirm that we have read and agree to the terms and conditions supplied to us by screwfix direct ltd. I the director, agree to guarantee performance of all the company's financial obligations to screwfix direct ltd and it's subsidiaries"

 

Like you, I also resigned from the company and the board prior to the company's demise.

 

Again, the letter made reference to a personal guarantee made by me which given the circumstances I believe is gross misrepresentation. I was planning to reply using the wording you have suggested, however speaking with another user who did the same, apparently just received a long letter in reply contesting each of the points.

 

I would very much like to hear of your progress as I suspect I may receive more letters from other suppliers.

 

Many thanks

 

Nick

Edited by Nick wheatley
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Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for your reply, having searched online, this appears to be a real issue, and I feel like a bit of a mug now not having read the small print, a lesson in life I may learn to my detriment. It feel very strongly that I have been mislead in this respect but without paying out for legal fees, I feel my only option may be to pay up. My only real concern is what others I may receive from here on in as I am aware I signed more than one application in my time on the board.

 

Thanks again for your time taken to reply, it helps somewhat knowing I'm not on my own!

 

Nick

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Hi guys

 

Sorry to hijack your post, but I have found myself in a very similar situation as of yesterday morning. I had signed a credit application form back in 2009, a copy of which I have attached for your information. I since resigned from the company and the board of directors before the company went into liquidation and now find myself being chased by solicitors for the outstanding account stating I had entered into a personal guarantee.

 

I did not believe at the time this is what I was doing and felt my liability only extended to my capacity as a company director, not as that of an individual.

 

Given the wording in the document and the fact that I left the company prior to its demise, do I have a leg to stand on?

 

I have been given 14 days to pay up or they have threatened legal proceedings!

 

I am a complete novice when it comes to legals and I would really appreciate any help you can give.

 

Yours in desperation,

 

Nick

 

Screwfix Personal Guarantee.jpg

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Screwfix Personal Guarantee.jpg

 

Hi Toddle2U

 

You make reference in your reply above "This does not contain all or the crucial arguments I was able to use as the forms you have signed are more stringent and clearly defined with regards to bring the PG to the attention of the person signing."

 

I have signed a similar Credit Account Application form whereby the heading was CONFIRMATION OF ACCEPTANCE. The wording beneath read "I confirm that we have read and agree to the terms and Conditions supplied to us by Screwfix Direct Ltd. I the director, agree to guarantee performance of all the company's financial obligations to Screwfix Direct Ltd and it's subsidiaries"

 

The company I worked for has since gone into liquidation and I am now being pursued for the unpaid balance despite having left the employ of the company and the board prior to its demise. Does my case have any potential for some of the crucial arguments you make reference to?

 

I have posted all over the forum yesterday and today, but to no avail. I have 14 days in which to pay the debt by which time I will be served with legal action.

 

I really would appreciate some help if you have the time.

 

Kind regards

 

Nick

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Hi Folks

 

I am new to the forum and unfortunately have joined out of desperation and panic!

 

I was previously a Director of a company wherby I signed a number of Credit Application forms to trade suppliers. I left the company and resigned from the Board in February this year and shortly afterwards the company went into liquidation, coincidently I might add.

 

I have now received a letter demanding payment on an unpaid account where the solicitors are inferring I have made a personal guarantee. The document I signed certainly does not imply this although the wording guarantee is included beneath the heading Confirmation of Acceptance.

 

I am a little unsure how to respond and any advice would be very much appreciated. The letter is dated 27th April 2012 and I have been told that if I do not pay in 14 days, they will issue legal action.

 

Can anyone assist??

 

I have attached the credit application for your reference.

 

Kind regards

 

Nick

 

Screwfix Personal Guarantee.jpg

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threads merged to the business forum

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Not a problem my colleague has merged the threads, it helps

us keep up with events get the advice from the right source.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Nick

 

Just to let you know I have merged all of your other posts from various threads to this one place, i.e. your thread.

 

As has been said, please just stick to this one regarding your Screwfix Issue

 

Thanks

 

ims

 

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