Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Insurance won't pay out after theft, what can I do ?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3860 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I recently had my motorbike stolen for the 3rd time and now the insurance won't pay out !

They say when I took out the insurance I didn't inform them of the previous 2 thefts however I didn't see anything on the form asking for that information.

Do I have any rights in this situation that I can fight for ?

I've been a victim of crime 3 times now and if that wasn't bad enough I have lost all my money on this bike and everything I paid in insurance.

 

I don't feel I have done anything that would seriously invalidate my insurance even if what they say is true.

By not declaring a previous theft would do only raise the premium of my insurance of which I would be happy to be deducted from my claim.

On the other hand if they really are insistant on not paying me out for the theft that I thought I had cover for, then what have I been paying them for in the first place ? surly i'm entitled to a refund for my premium if they are not going to honor their end of the deal ?

The letter I have been sent also contains no real evidence to support their claim. I'll upload it incase anybody can help me find something that will help me with this matter.

Peace :

Link to post
Share on other sites

When you completed the Inusrance proposal there will most certainly have been a caveat that said if you fail to disclose or hide any material facts your insurance may be invalid/void, if you are uncertain what a material fact is you should disclose the information.Having suffered 2 previous thefts is almost certainly a material fact and you are obviously aware of it because you state that any increase in premiums due could be deducted from the settlement, had that been disclosed then the insurers may well have decided that they wouldn't offer theft insurance.I'm not surprised your claim has been turned downMossycat

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it sounds clear cut but I honestly had made a genuine mistake on the form. Their is no mention of the word "theft" in relation to claims in fact the actuall wording is " Has the driver had any accidents or losses, whether at fault or not and regardless of blame in the last 5 years" Now to me I thought that was talking about accidents and losses in relation to this and not if I'd had to make a claim from theft.

I would say this wording is not clear and open to misunderstanding hence my case.

Upon inspection of my aplication I also state I have no no claims discount and this would support my evidence in not trying to decive the insurance of my previous claims.

If askied the question "have you ever had and claims resulting from theft in the past 5 years my answer would have been yes !

Link to post
Share on other sites

No. Crystal clear I'm afraid. If you have a collision OR theft (loss) whether it is yoru fault or not, it statistically puts you at more risk of another collison/theft. All isnurers will load the premium accordingly. Insurance is a business. They have no actual interest in giving you money, their only real interest is getting it. Thus they will ALWAYS look for a way out. Ah, but you didn't mention.......

 

No use at all saying after the fact that you did not realiuse. The question is crystal clear, 'any accidents OR LOSSES...' You obiously said 'no' when you shoudl have said 'yes'. Had you answered honestly they may have made an additional charge, no additional charge or declined to insure you altogether. As you did not answer honestly, you have in effect lied to obtain insurance and thus nulled the policy. You would be entitled to a refund of your premium paid less any administration charge. No payout for you though.

 

Sorry if that sounds hard lined. That is the way it works though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't referring to the accidents, claims or losses question.I was referring to the caveat that is on every single insurance policy that says if you fail to mention or disclose a material fact then your insurance maybe invalid or void.You failed to mention a very material fact, therefore you cannot now expect them to deal with the claim.Mossycat

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys I know what you are saying is fact however I intend to prove that I've not intentionally withheld any information at all. In fact I can prove they had knowledge of one of my claims as the first bike i had stolen was insured with this same company. Also their is a big difference between intentionally withholding information and making an honest mistake. If they don't see it my way then I will sue them if needs be.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Insuranmce companies are not interested in whether you forgot, made an 'honest mistake', had a bad hair day or anything else. They ask youy a question upon which the decision and cost of insurance is based. You said 'no' when you should have said 'yes'. Which ultimately means (for whatever reason) that you did NOT disclose the previous accidents or losses on that form and thus your insurance is cancelled.

 

Furthermore, if they have cancelled your insurance you MUST answer 'yes' in future to the question 'have you ever had insurance declined or cancelled'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got caught out when recently insuring my car. I had an accident last year and last month, I agreed to a 50/50 settlement for personal injury. I have had a letter from the previous insurer stating that it was a no-fault accident and I stated this on subsequent car insurance . With the payout of my claim, I bought the new car, again stating on the insurance application that I had a no-fault accident. I then get a letter from the broker stating that my accident was a fault one. It appears that when the claim was settled, an insurance database was updated stating a 50% liability and therefore affected my premiums. The brokers, Swinton, were fantastic. They contacted Aviva and the solicitors and confirmed that I wasn't given the full story. It did increase my premiums by £10 a month though. Moral of the story - if you have had an accident in the past and informed your insurance of this, it will be on record.

Link to post
Share on other sites

so you don't think I have a case for them adjusting the payout to reflect the higher policy if I had properly disclosed the previous claims ?

 

To be honest I don't think i'll be getting theft insurance anymore even if I could, i'm just going to get 3rd party cover that apparently I can't be refused by law.

Much cheaper and it just means I will have to take extra action to protect my property !

Edited by wakeymatt
Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately you will lose if persue it. There is no compassion in the insurance industry for errors genuine or not due and you will unfortunatly have to learn by it as distressing as it is. I am not saying this scenario is you, but how can an insurance company distinguish between deliberate non disclosure and pure genuine error? They cant so have to be hard line with no leeway due to the dishonest people out there xx

 

Whatever it was wether theft or accident it would be classed as' a claim' and needed to be declared to protect yourself just incase wether though relevant or not in either case.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well interestingly that opens up a hole new bag of worms.

I recently contacted my estate agent about moving flats due to being targeted by thieves. I was met with quite some hostility and was told I would have to pay re listing fees and also if I did move I would have to keep paying rent until my current flat was rehoused. As its just not finically viable to move under these terms i'm stuck where I am until my contract finish's later this year.

I started investigation how I could combat the thieves and started with the most obvious things first the security cameras on our property. Now the cameras in question I was told were a deterrent and not actually operational upon having my first motorbike stolen. Now recently the estate agents have said the cameras now are operational but had neglected to tell us the residents this. This meant that when I reported the theft several months ago I was under the impression their was no operational cctv and told the police as such. If it transpires their was cctv available at the time of the theft and its still on record then hunky dory however if its been deleted do you think I have a case against the estate agents for some kind of negligence ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok now i'm trying to get 3rd party insurance and I can't get a quote as I checked the have had insurance cancelled box.

So does this mean I can never get insurance now even though i've never had an accident in my life and only claimed for thefts ?

This is ridicules !

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I can get insurance from Adrian flux but they are asking for over a grand a year for 3rd party only insurance, I just don't get how they can charge so much for 3rd party cover as i've never had an accident in 17 years of driving and riding.

I'm considering not checking the have you ever had insurance cancelled or voided and using the defence of the issue is in dispute ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

From the insurers point of view, they have lumped you in with other people who have lied on their proposal form, the insurer does not know whether it was deliberate or not.

 

People who tell deliberate lies on their proposal form have proved that they are happy to lie to insurance companies, and are therefore more likely to lie on their claim form - so effectively, you are paying the price for false claims.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Insurers assess who we are, and shove us in a specific group of people, and they think they know roughly what value of claims will come from this group of people. For instance, my risk of having an accident may be 1% - this does not help you predict when I will claim - but if there are 1000 of us with the same level of risk then the insurer knows that approximately 10 will have an accident every year. The premium is therefore calculated at one hundreth of the average claim payout, plus insurers overheads, plus profit.

 

You have been shoved in the same group as people who deliberately tell lies on proposal forms. You are therefore in a group that contains people who use deliberate lies to put in false claims - and even RTA insurance can be used to get a payout for a mate in a "staged accident".

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...