Hi Elsa

Many Thanks for your prompt response. Let me have a day or two to get my facts straight and I will post a condensed timeline to show events as they happened.

Truly you are all wonderful people.

Hi Elsahere is a summarised account of how things transpired with RBS.Agreement terminated by asking for full amount on POC.

Took me to court, dropped the CCJ and Charging order. Did not respond to the 20 day ruling by the judge. Issued New DN’s and acted like the agreement was still alive. I responded saying I was happy to pay the arrears at the time of Termination.

Now they are preparing to apply to the court to re-open the case on the same grounds.Detailed a little more below

;1. I was issued with a Court Date in March so RBS could apply for a charging order to my property in order that they could attach our loan to our home. POC asked for full amount, not just the arrears of the loan. No Termination Notices were received. Though by asking for full amount they Terminated the original agreement. Due to extenuatuing circumstances, I had reduced my payments to all my creditors, BUT I never missed a payment.

2. On 16th Feb CAG Alerted me to the fact that my DN's were faulty due to insuffiscient time to remedy, a lack of prescribed text regarding the Office of fair trading, as well as spurious interest added to the loan (i,e, they added the solicitors costs). Termination Notices were not issued.

3. 17th March Court Hearing. I entered the court and the judge referred to my application to set aside and said it was basically worthless. I told him I had been educating myself on case law and had what I believed to be strong grounds to set aside the CCJ.

He dutifully chastised me for not sticking to court procedures, however, if I had anything to show I may produce it.

I produced my 2 original Signed DN's and mentioned that they were faulty.

At which point he stopped me and warned me that to proceed would likely end in a very expensive set of court fees likely to be in excess of the loan and that a lot of people lately had fallen foul of the Internet and websites claiming all of this. I thanked him for his advice and he duly retracted stating he had not given me any.

He then asked the claimants solicitor if they had seen my grounds for set aside. They responded by saying yes and thought it had no grounds. The judge turned to myself and said that what he wanted to see was evidence to show that I had grounds to set aside, using case law. I mentioned I had.

He then asked the claimants solicitor if they were able to spend 15minutes with me (very kindly I thought) to see if I had a valid case.

We both agreed and retired to a meeting room. I had written down the case law ((Woodchester v xxxxxx) forgive me I am a little fuzzy after the hearing) and showed that a faulty DN rescinds the contract.

I mentioned that the date was out by 1 day assuming 2nd class post and said that I would hold RBS to PROOF OF CLAIM that they posted it 1st class. Otherwise the court would assume that it was posted 2nd class.

They then asked me if that was the only issue with the DN. I said no. There was a paragraph missing stipulating the requirement of the DN to hold information about the OFT. Since there was not extra paperwork with the DN and it was not stipulated on the DN, I was not aware that I needed to ask for it.

They then asked if there was anything else I had to show. I said that I had not received any Termination Notice. (I did not elaborate on this as I this was a grey area for me and I will require help with this when I put my defence forward).

The claimants solicitor then asked if they could speak to there client in private and I duly obliged....after all I am a gentlemen. 40 minutes later they came out and asked if they could have a copy of the faulty DN. I obliged.

They then came out of the meeting room and instructed to me that since they were unable to 'find' the documentation they sent out to me....they were willing to set aside the CCJ!!!!!!GOBSMACKED

We returned to court where the judge asked if we had made any progress and I basically did not say much. The claimants solicitor stated that they had been instructed to set aside the Judgement for the timebeing. The judge asked why and they informed the Judge that they had been unable to locate any paperwork pertaining my claims. They then asked that all costs of the case would be born by myself, to which he replied 'I don't think so.

This matter is in dispute now and we will decide who pays the costs at its completion.' The Judge then told me to file my defence in particular detail before the 14days and the claimant to respond 20days after that. He told me that failure to do so would grant the charging order again as I would be in Default. He instructed me to read a particular case where the claimant did not need to produce an original document. I thanked him for his help and said that as I already had the original signed DN's I would be happy to give a copy to the claimants solicitor.

4. I filed my Defence as ordered.

5. The Claimant did not respond to my defence within the 20days stipulated by the Judge.

6. I received New DN's on 28th Aug 2010 that were now correct to the CCA. However, on the original POC by asking for the full amount they terminated the original agreement and so cannot re-issue a new DN. This DN was now for £9800 of arrears which included all the court costs.

7. Aug 30th I wrote to RBS stating that the arrears they were entitled to claim amounted to £1066.69 against which I would have a counterclaim for costs in court. I told them they could not apply for the full amount, only the arrears. I believe they cannot take me to court for part of the debt….

8.September 2010. RBS state that they are going to take me to court again as I failed to make the promised £28 per month if they dropped the charging order. I agreed to nothing of the sort.

9.July 2011. RBS state they are applying to take me to court again as "We are confident that a District Judge will grant permission to re-issue proceedings against Mr xxxx and Mrs xxxxx on the basis that the issueing of the second Default Notices constitutes exceptional circumstances which merit the issueing of a new claim".So there you have it. Thanks Supergang!

Hi Worsteve,

Thanks for that.

Unfortunately the unlawful rescission/termination argument is no longer recommended following recent cases, but I think the way forward here is going to be in respect of the DN still being faulty due to adding court costs (against judges directions?) and estoppel, although as they withdrew rather than the judge making a decision I'm not sure on that one. Hence more thought and input needed.

Need to ponder on this and get some good people in to help - I've put out an SOS.

Elsa x

Hello ElsaThanks for your attention here. I am vaguely aware that that the unlawful termination rules have conveniently changed recently, but am not clued up as yet. Still, I did think because of they went for the full amount and I accepted the termination then I was only liable for the arrears, against which I would have a counterclaim for court costs. Also, although they withdrew in court, they did not respond within the 20days stipulated by the District Judge, that I had legally and lawfully won my case. They will apply to the courts again this week. All help and advice is truly gratefully received. Another donation is on its way my friends.

responding to S.O.S.

Steve, I have reformatted your post i order to make it easier to read.

1: I dont think they can add the costs from the previous claim to the amount they are now intending to claim. No award for cost was made from what I can see. Their fault if they couldnt get their paperwork in order.

2: I am not sure they can add interest from the previous date either.. but others will need to advise on that.

This sounds pretty similar to the Thomas Mitchell claim where Halifax just quit mid claim without any reason.. or none that was given to the wider audience.. just the DJ.

I am surprised they tried to bluff monies out of you by saying that you agreed to repayment when you didnt.

So the situation is that they havent actually issued a new claim.. but just advised that they intend to do so ?

Can you remember the judgment the Judge suggested you read..

 

He instructed me to read a particular case where the claimant did not need to produce an original document.

Because I think he might have given you some duff information here.

Responding to CB and Elsa PM.

Woresteve until such summons is issued there is little point in debating the what ifs and buts.I'm subscribed to your post now

as soon as they issue it ill pop in.

Regards

Andy

Hi Citizen B, Andyorch and ElsaThanks for taking the time to review my case here. I spent some time going through my paperwork last night and the judge did not actually specify which case to look at..........he simply told me to study a 'Recent' case. Also, thanks for re-formatting my post! Not sure how to indent the pargraphs here..... In court, the claimants solicitor asked for the costs to be born by me but the judge shot her down in flames! No costs were awarded.I am fairly sure they are awarding interest but can see quite clearly on the DN's they are adding their solicitors costs at about £400'ish per month. They re-issued the DN's that show that. Hopefully that makes these Faulty as well!!!Anyway today is my 'Default' day, whereby if I don't make an offer of payment, they apply back to the court. We will see what transpires then.Thanks to all of you for your help.

Hi Worsteve,

Happy Default Day!

At some stage you'll need to get a breakdown of how that default amount is made up. Are they still sending statements, and have they sent arrears notices (annual statement of arrears)

Thanks for answering the SOS, CitizenB and Andy

Elsa x

Hi Worsteve,

Happy Default Day!

At some stage you'll need to get a breakdown of how that default amount is made up. Are they still sending statements, and have they sent arrears notices (annual statement of arrears)

 

Thanks for answering the SOS, CitizenB and Andy

 

Elsa x

Also regular Notice of Arrears whilst in default to facilitate the adding of any interest.

Just an addition Elsa:-)

Andy

Also regular Notice of Arrears whilst in default to facilitate the adding of any interest.

 

Just an addition Elsa:-)

 

 

Andy

Hi Guys'Gals'nSuperheroes!I will go through my paperwork to see if they have sent regular Notices of Arrears. I don't think so though. I got new DN's off their solicitors and request for payment if I remember correctly. I shall sift through my paperwork tonight to confirm..........Thanks again to you all