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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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CitiBank, no CCA forthcoming.


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Hello fellow Caggers.

 

As advised in a recent thread I applied for my CCA from Citibank on 19th March. No CCA was forthcoming by 3rd April (no surprise there then).

 

On 10th April I received this default notice.

 

editeddefaultnotice1.jpg

editeddefaultnotice2.jpg

 

In reply on 28th April I sent off the “failed to respond to CCA request” letter.

On 15th May I received a termination of your agreement from Citibank.

 

editedterminationofagreementcitiban.jpg

 

Now seeing as the account was in dispute through failure to provide my CCA, I have penned this reply to them.

 

editedterminationofagreementciti-1.jpg

editedterminationofagreementciti-2.jpg

 

Is this letter ok to send to them, or would it lack any credence in a court as evidence, due to technicalities and legality?

 

Also I sent the letters to their registered address, but the letters I receive come from a differing address. Would this have any bearing, surely they can be passed to the right department.

 

Regards,

Allets.

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Looks good, though Citi do operate as a law unto themselves and will likely ignore it.

 

I would strongly consider submitting a complaint to the OFT.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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You might like to point out to them that the default notice is invalid as well. They have only allowed you 13 days to remedy the default.

letter dated 7th

2 days for delivery

9th -22nd= 13 days

 

As they have terminated the account with a faulty DN, they can only claim the arrears

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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You might like to point out to them that the default notice is invalid as well. They have only allowed you 13 days to remedy the default.

letter dated 7th

2 days for delivery

9th -22nd= 13 days

 

As they have terminated the account with a faulty DN, they can only claim the arrears

 

I make from the 9th to the 22nd 14 days.

 

S.

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Fair point but i was under the impression it had to be 14 CLEAR days, I.E delivered the 9th so the 14 days start from the 10th. perhaps someone could clarify for me

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Fair point but i was under the impression it had to be 14 CLEAR days, I.E delivered the 9th so the 14 days start from the 10th. perhaps someone could clarify for me

 

This is from the CPR rules on service...

 

Deemed Service

 

6.26

 

A document, other than a claim form, served in accordance with these Rules or any relevant practice direction is deemed to be served on the day shown in the following table –

 

 

1. First class post (or other service which provides for delivery on the next business day) The second day after it was posted, left with, delivered to or collected by the relevant service provider provided that day is a business day; or if not, the next business day after that day.

S.
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I had not realised the default notice is borderline (thanks SF1961 for pointing that out, I had not noticed), as I received it on the 10th April. 10th to 22nd April equals 13 days, or 12 days if you don’t count the day it is received. Surely a statutory notice like this should have the means of being tracked, from posting to delivery, or are they too tight fisted?

 

Regarding the termination notice. This is dated 8th May, but I didn’t receive it until last Friday 15th May. A letter, even second class doesn’t take a week after posting to reach its destination.

 

I will send the letter in any case, as they have failed on both counts to provide and answer to why I have not received my CCA.

 

 

Quote from Enron "Looks good, though Citi do operate as a law unto themselves and will likely ignore it.

 

I would strongly consider submitting a complaint to the OFT".

 

 

What would be the likely response from the OFT? Or would it give me some amunition in court from their reply, if/when it comes to that?

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What would be the likely response from the OFT? Or would it give me some amunition in court from their reply, if/when it comes to that?

 

 

Going to the OFT doesn't achieve much for you because they don't consider individual claims but what happens is that once they get enough complaints, they then investigate and possibly question citi's fitness to hold a consumer credit licence although the most the OFT do is usually a £50,000 fine.

 

You could complain to your local trading standards as well as Citi.

 

Did you keep the envelope the DN came in? if so, was it stamped first or second class? (makes a difference)

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Just a couple of points also about your section 10 request.

 

In order to satisfy ICO guidance a section 10 notice should;

 

1.Be addressed to the Data Controller/Officer of the organisation.

 

2.Give a clear date by which you expect processing or sharing of your data to cease.

 

3.Give reasons as to why you want the processing of your data to stop.

 

There is a specific letter for a section 10 request in the Library on the front page (Which I drew up specifically to address ICO guidance)

Would do you no harm to send one out since my feeling is that your request as made within the body of your letter above-does not meet the requirements,and so they are not bound to comply.

 

Unfortunately although we know that Citi are very often guilty of being in breach of guidance,they are very quick to point this out to customers when the boot is on the other foot-dont give them reasons to do so.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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As regards your complaints to the regs-as has been pointed out,the OFT will not deal with individual complaints.

You can file this online through Consumer direct,who will either take it up themselves or refer it to your local Trading Standards.

Theres nothing to stop you going to your local Trading Standards yourself-if you decide on that then take originals of all docs for them to copy.

Keep us posted.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hello fellow Caggers.

A further development to my CitiBank debacle.

I received this interesting letter yesterday morning.

editedreplytorequestforcca020709.jpg

Does it seem as though they are under no obligation to provide me with my CCA, as they no longer have a contractual agreement with me. They are also not seeking to enforce any agreement with me.

Does this mean that they have admitted defeat, or is it not as easy as this?

Bearing in mind, I requested my CCA from them on 19th march 2009 and at that time my account had not been terminated.

Would anybody like to comment. More to the point, has anyone else received this letter from them?

 

Regards,

Allets.

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Its not a new one-we have seen this before.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I'd suggest if you want a copy of your agreement then try this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html If they then ignore this or come back with one of their pathetic replies then take them to court !! - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165349-smt37-morgan-stanley-goldfish-3.html#post2119750

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Does it seem as though they are under no obligation to provide me with my CCA, as they no longer have a contractual agreement with me. They are also not seeking to enforce any agreement with me.

Does this mean that they have admitted defeat, or is it not as easy as this?

 

Regards,

Allets.

 

Hi Allets,

 

I've had that letter and if you want to stop paying then store the letter away... all responses to s78 requests are legally binding.. They will however continue to report non-payment and eventually default you though.

 

With help from Enron I responded with the following:-

 

Ref: Account: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

In response to your letter dated 12th Feb which was in itself a reply to my legally entitled Section 78 request for a copy of my Credit Card Agreement I find you still in default of supplying my CCA.

 

I note that section 172 outlines that statements by creditors are binding where made under inter alia section 78(1) and I therefore acknowledge your statement that you are not enforcing this agreement.

 

If however I am provided with a copy of the executed agreement containing all the prescribed terms I would be willing to reconsider my position

 

Regards

 

S.

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Hello The Shadow.

I have actually been defaulted by CitiBank back in May 2009. But I can't understand why they sent me that letter.

It would seem that the different departments do not keep in touch with each other, so each doesn't know what the other is doing.

Is the letter a possible bargaining item for the future?

 

Regards,

Allets.

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Hello The Shadow.

I have actually been defaulted by CitiBank back in May 2009. But I can't understand why they sent me that letter.

It would seem that the different departments do not keep in touch with each other, so each doesn't know what the other is doing.

Is the letter a possible bargaining item for the future?

 

Regards,

Allets.

 

As mentioned in the post above responses to s78 requests are legally binding therefore if they say they are not enforcing the agreement then they cant enforce the agreement.

 

You could try a subject access request if you still wanted to see your agreement although I'm not sure if Citi are sending out agreements in reply to any requests at the moment. The other possibility is through CPR 31.16 but this requires an application to court to get sight of the agreement.

 

As I said I've stopped paying and advised them they need to send me a copy of the agreement before they'll get anything further, I await and attempts at legal action with that letter to rebuff them.

 

S.

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Hello The Shadow.

I have actually been defaulted by CitiBank back in May 2009. But I can't understand why they sent me that letter.

It would seem that the different departments do not keep in touch with each other, so each doesn't know what the other is doing.

Is the letter a possible bargaining item for the future?

 

Regards,

Allets.

 

Here is my thread from 2 years ago http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/69600-steveh2508-citicard.html

 

I did get a typo-filled patronising letter from Brian Smith (their solicitor then) which I replied to 'up to the third lacehole' and they went off in a hissy fit and sold the account to First Cretins.

 

I've not paid either of them a penny and it has gone completely quiet. :grin:

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allets - your letter in #11 to me seems like good news, they have closed the account, and they are not enforceing the agreement with you. Assuming they havent sold the account on, is it a case now of matter closed?

I havent heard anything from Citi for nearly two months now, the last letter being that of "Impending default". They havent sent any credit card agreement and disregarded my "account in dispute" letters. Since this was originally an Associates Card, I doubt whether they have a copy in any case. I wish they would send me that letter too!

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They have traditionally sold accounts to Hillesden and more recently CABOT.

Since assignment should be done complete with documentation,if the account is assigned to a third party,then a request under the CCA could be made to the assignee.....if they cannot supply,then they should not have the account in the first place.

The guidance from regulators is quite clear.

The original creditor ALWAYS bears some responsibility to the lender.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thanks for that Enron. I would have thought a signature would have to be a minimum requirement as evidence.

To all others who have replied since I posted my latest letter, it has been carefully filed away.

To the Shadow, that looks like an excellent reply to the letter which I am considering sending to them.

 

Regards,

Allets.

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are you mad? let sleeping dogs lie!

 

the DN is not "slightly out" it is faulty- just as you cant be "slightly pregnant" you either are or you aren't!

 

they have terminated on the back of a faulty DN

 

they have confirmed they are not pursuing you.

 

you should not do anything which gives the impression that you do not consider the agreement terminated

 

IMO if you are not careful the second para of your letter of 18th may could come back to bite you it reads that you dispute the termination of the agreement!

Edited by diddydicky
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  • 8 months later...

Just to bring this to the fore again, I received another letter from CitiBank on Saturday stating that they enclose a true copy of my agreement with them, even though it is a year late since my original request for my CCA AND not having any contact or correspondence with them since May 2009.

 

Here is the latest letter, interestingly it states that the copy agreement does not included the signature box, signature or date of signature in accordance with regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) of the consumer credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) Regulations 1983, we are not required to provide them. However another creditor who I know has a valid CCA with me sent me a copy of the original form complete with my signature and dated by me in my handwriting, I would make the suggestion that CitiBank no longer have that original document.

 

creditaggreementrequestedited.jpg

 

Here is the first page of my supposed Agreement between CitiBank and me which I supposedly signed in 1998, but is in fact dated 1 Dec 2008. This document alone runs to 14 pages:

 

editedcca.jpg

 

A further document titled Credit agreement, this is 7 pages long:

 

editedcreditagreement.jpg

 

I take it they are now clutching at straws with what to do next and none of these documents relate to my original CCA.

 

Allets.

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Gonna PM you.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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