StevenDrakeSolicitors and 'fake' Statutory Demand amex card debt

[Dwayne Dibbley]

Hi guys and gals,

 

I have recieved by royalmail a Statutory Demand from StevenDrake, with cover letter:

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re. AMEX.....

 

We enclose a Statutory Demand by way of service upon you.

 

Please acknowledge safe receipt

 

Your faithfully

 

stevesdrake

 

The demand itself is on two sheets of paper with the Demand, Part A, B C etc and seems to be at version 6.1 going by the footer "Insolvency-Bankruptcy 6.1"

 

They also seem to kindly be charging me interest at 3.98 a day which currently totals 517.71 bringing the total outstanding with AMEX 3532.63 as at 22nd August

 

I guess my first step is to send a CCA Request off to StevenSDrake?

 

Many Thanks

 

Nigel

[mrmarmite]

hehe, CCA them ASAP, send a quid and by recorded, that will shut them up for a while if not permanitly

[NailPost]

Statutory Demands need to be treated with more than just a CCA. They are meant as precursors to maiing you bankrupt and Amex are known to be aggressive in that respect.

 

However if the alleged debt is less than £750 they won't be able to do that so a bit more info would be helpful. Is the stat demand signed and does it mention a county court?

 

If it is unsigned it should be referred to the OFT (and the law Society) as a breach of their guidelines as to sending out quasi-legal looking docs.

 

Oh and don't worry, there's plenty of good advice to be found on these forums.

[ODC]

How did you receive the Statutory Demand. Personal Service or by post

[Dwayne Dibbley]

How did you receive the Statutory Demand. Personal Service or by post

 

Was recieved through Royal Mail post, so not the correct way to issue a SD

 

Thanks

 

Nigel

[Dwayne Dibbley]

Statutory Demands need to be treated with more than just a CCA. They are meant as precursors to maiing you bankrupt and Amex are known to be aggressive in that respect.

 

However if the alleged debt is less than £750 they won't be able to do that so a bit more info would be helpful. Is the stat demand signed and does it mention a county court?

 

If it is unsigned it should be referred to the OFT (and the law Society) as a breach of their guidelines as to sending out quasi-legal looking docs.

 

Oh and don't worry, there's plenty of good advice to be found on these forums.

 

It does has a squiggle / signature and mentions a Court although not my local but next county so close.

 

Thanks again

 

Nigel

 

PS the amount seems to be for 3532.63 of which 517.71 ( to date ) is interest that they have kindley added at 3.98 a day.

[tomterm8]

There are a few vital questions.

 

1. do you know what debt this is for?

 

2. Was the debt a charge card or a credit card? (Amex does both)

 

3. Was the debt subject to a forthright CCJ?

 

4. Is this stat demand served by the original creditor, or a DCA. If it is a DCA, had it served on you a notice of assignment.

 

5. Do you own your own home (the most important question).

 

 

OK. I'll be back tomorrow, have a look at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/112326-debt-collection-agencies-statutory.html in the mean time. Also, although Gizmo (one of the moderators) asked me to help - and I'm sure we all will - i really suggest you also contact the national debt line (which is free of charge) tomorrow morning on 0808 808 4000 .

[Dwayne Dibbley]

There are a few vital questions.

 

1. do you know what debt this is for?

 

Hotel expenses etc

 

2. Was the debt a charge card or a credit card? (Amex does both)

 

this was a Corporate Card which i believe was a charge card?

 

3. Was the debt subject to a forthright CCJ?

 

i have had no ccj regarding this

 

4. Is this stat demand served by the original creditor, or a DCA. If it is a DCA, had it served on you a notice of assignment.

 

the demand is served on me by the creditor ( amex )

 

5. Do you own your own home (the most important question).

nope live in rented accomadation

 

 

OK. I'll be back tomorrow, have a look at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/112326-debt-collection-agencies-statutory.html in the mean time.

 

This dept was origionally with RMA (Risk Management Alternatives) part of NCO i think, but the refused to accept any payments and wanted the full amount due ( which was 2920.84 then ) i can then assume they have passed it back to Amex and now stevedrake has it.

[tomterm8]

HM. There are legal implications involved in a charge card that are quite unfortunate. The problem with charge cards are that they are, generally speaking, exempt agreements (that is, not regulated under CCA 1974) meaning that some of the approaches that people use to normal (e.g. credit card) debts are not valid. The reason for this is that repayments are interest free, and you repay the charge every month.

 

This means that the protections of the consumer credit acts largely do not apply.

 

So... some more questions...

 

1. A corporate card implies this was a company issued card. Were you a sole trador or ltd company at the time the agreement was made.

 

2. Were the cards subject to any penalty charges (e.g. late payments etc).

 

3. Are the actual figures correct? from what I can tell, they are charging you roughly 50% APR

 

4. Do you have a copy of the original agreement?

 

5. When was the agreement made?

[Dwayne Dibbley]

1. i was an employee for the company ( Hewlett Packard )

2. note sure will need to check tommorow

3. the initial figures could be correct 2900 and it seem that stevens is adding the 50% interest

4. not sure again will check tommorow ( form from corporate website that gets faxed off the AMEX )

5. i am guessing 3-4 years ago

 

thanks

[tomterm8]

1. i was an employee for the company ( Hewlett Packard )

2. note sure will need to check tommorow

3. the initial figures could be correct 2900 and it seem that stevens is adding the 50% interest

4. not sure again will check tommorow ( form from corporate website that gets faxed off the AMEX )

5. i am guessing 3-4 years ago

 

thanks

 

Ech... so the charge card was opened by hewlett packard? Why did HP not pay the debt?

[tomterm8]

Also, looking at your previous threads, you recieved a stat demand on or around the 8th August. Is this the same debt? A new stat demand?

[ODC]

Surely a Stat demand by post is only acceptable if they can prove it was impossible to serve personally. A while back a few of the DCAs were issuing them like confetti. I think the give away here is the solicitor asking the poster to confirm receipt

[tomterm8]

Surely a Stat demand by post is only acceptable if they can prove it was impossible to serve personally. A while back a few of the DCAs were issuing them like confetti. I think the give away here is the solicitor asking the poster to confirm receipt

 

it entirely depends on your morals. If you are prepared to say you never recieved it, then a bankruptcy hearing would have to be stayed until a properly served stat demand was produced.

 

If the demand has a court seal on, it's a different matter.

 

In real terms, i can not see any real potential of a bankruptcy hearing in this matter because:

 

1. the OP has no realiseable assets.

2. the OP has no income that would be subject to bankruptcy and,

3. the OP probably has no liability on the debt.

 

On point 3, if the card was opened and operated by HP, they would be the liable company. Any security by the OP would likely be void, since HP would have been able to excert undue influence on the OP to undertake that security.

 

In any case, the OP would himself have a legal right of action against HP, if the cards security was called in.

 

In other words, my view is that this is a pig in a poke; however, I would still call the national debt line for professional advice.

[Curlyben]

Guys, Please have a read of Sequenci's excellent sticky on this subject and the linked discussion.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/112326-debt-collection-agencies-statutory.html

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

it entirely depends on your morals. If you are prepared to say you never recieved it, then a bankruptcy hearing would have to be stayed until a properly served stat demand was produced.

 

 

In other words, my view is that this is a pig in a poke; however, I would still call the national debt line for professional advice.

 

Surely you wouldn't need to say anything. The absence of both yourself and a sworn affidavit of service would automatically kibosh the hearing.

 

I do find it very strange to the point of unbelievable that Amex's lawyer's would chase after a corporate card signatory for what could only be HP's debt. Even if you had been making unauthorized use of the card HP would have to pay and chase you themselves.

[tomterm8]

Surely you wouldn't need to say anything. The absence of both yourself and a sworn affidavit of service would automatically kibosh the hearing.

 

there have been a number of cases where people have ignored, or not even recieved a stat demand and yet the bankruptcy hearing has still taken place... in one case, the person alleged there was a corrupt process server, in others the companies sent their process server to a past address and said that they were not aware of a change of address.

 

I don't know... most second class stat demands are just threat-o-grams... but it does seem that some DCA's and lenders do not always stay within the letter or spirit of the law, and that it is easier that you'd like to think to find someone to lie for you, if you want to pretend you attempted service.

[ODC]

Surely the best way if they didnt want to do personal service would be recorded delivery. I remember this argument going on with the Phoney Pharoah a while back and I thought second class would not be acceptable.

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

 

I don't know... most second class stat demands are just threat-o-grams... but it does seem that some DCA's and lenders do not always stay within the letter or spirit of the law, and that it is easier that you'd like to think to find someone to lie for you, if you want to pretend you attempted service.

 

:shock:I hadn't thought of that angle. I've seen loads of SD's flying around including in my direction but I've never actually seen one get even as far as the set aside phase. They seem to be a wake up and get real moment - usually for the person who issues them:grin:.

[tomterm8]

Surely the best way if they didnt want to do personal service would be recorded delivery. I remember this argument going on with the Phoney Pharoah a while back and I thought second class would not be acceptable.

 

Second class mail is very borderline, but it would just about be acceptable (though, frankly very poor procedure) to use it if you already attempted personal service. We both know that this didn't happen in the above case, but all it requires is one bloke to be willing to lie on a court form, and you're stuffed.

[ODC]

I know where you are coming from. Surely a judge would have to decide who is telling the truth. A member of a DCA who by posting second class has no proof of postage of a debtor who has requested a CCA from a DCA who have responded by allegedly issuing an SD which the debtor says he didnt receive because if he had he would have attended the court to prove the alleged debt was unprovable. Am I being too simplistic here

[tomterm8]

I know where you are coming from. Surely a judge would have to decide who is telling the truth. A member of a DCA who by posting second class has no proof of postage of a debtor who has requested a CCA from a DCA who have responded by allegedly issuing an SD which the debtor says he didnt receive because if he had he would have attended the court to prove the alleged debt was unprovable. Am I being too simplistic here

 

Too simplistic. Once a bankruptcy petition is actually issued, it can be like a domino effect. If the banks find out, they go in like vultures, asking for reposession orders, adding their names to the bankruptcy petition, launching CCJs - anything, in order to guarantee they get paid.

 

Even if the judge dismisses the first application, the banks will still go after you, because they know you are only one letter away from a new bankruptcy petition.

 

I know many people on this site have ignored stat demands, and not been hurt. But, the consequences vary depending on how likely the creditor is to get their money back. Which is why owning a house is a trigger.

[ODC]

So yet again the courts believe the creditor over the debtor. How then do you know if its a real SD or a pice of confetti issued by a DCA

[tomterm8]

So yet again the courts believe the creditor over the debtor. How then do you know if its a real SD or a pice of confetti issued by a DCA

 

You don't. which is the national debt line generally tell people to make a set aside application. But many members of the forum have completly sucessfully ignored the stat demands - some DCA's just spew them out like confetti. It depends on your tolerance for risks. Also, it depends whether you have a house, or shares (e.g. you're a self employed person, who owns their own LTD company).

 

it should be realised that many DCA's seem to send them out to everybody, and only decide once the default period ends if they will take it further. In the vast majority of cases they do not.

[ODC]

Thanks for your patience. I received one over a year ago but it didnt have the court stamp on it. It mentioned a Court nowhere near me so I ignored it. I didnt realise the risk until now