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    • Hi there, Here is the sticky filled out as best as possible:  Which Court have you received the claim from? MCOL (County Court Business Centre, Northampton) Name of the Claimant: Uk Parking Control Limited Claimants Solicitors: DCB Legal Date of issue: March 2023 Following events: — DQ sent to me July 2023 — I filed a DQ in September 2023 — My claim was transferred to [my local court] September 2023 — Received Notice of Allocation to Small Claims Track (Hearing) including date for hearing in April 2024 — Witness statement due by May 14 — Claimant must pay court fees by May 17 — Court hearing on June 18   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down. 1. The defendant is indebted to the claimant for a Parking Charge issued at [x] issued to vehicle [__] at Walcot Yard, Walcot Road, Bath, Ba1 5bg. 2. The PCN details are [___]. 3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Cs signs (the Contract), this incurring the PCNs. 4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding. The Contract entitles C to damages.  AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 1. £160 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of [x]p until judgement or sooner payment. 3. Costs and court fees   What is the value of the claim? ~260 Amount Claimed ~170 court fees ~35 legal rep fees ~50 Total Amount  ~260   Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? No   Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? No Here is the defence I filed:  DEFENCE 1. The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all. It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars. The facts as known to the Defendant: 2. It is admitted that on the material date the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, but liability is denied. 3. While working at a nearby premises, [___] the Defendant was informed by the manager that they had an informal verbal agreement with the developer and owner operator of [___], which supposedly allowed them to park there. Based on this information, the Defendant parked their car there in good faith. The Defendant was not aware of any restrictions or limitations to this agreement, and therefore believed that they had the right to park there without penalty. 4. The Defendant avers that the Claimant failed to serve a Notice to Keeper compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Consequently, the claimant cannot transfer liability for this charge to the Defendant as keeper of the vehicle. 5. The Particulars of Claim ('POC') appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action”. 6. The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case is being pursued. 7. The POC are entirely inadequate, in that they fail to particularise (a) the contractual term(s) relied upon; (b) the specifics of any alleged breach of contract; and (c) how the purported and unspecified 'damages' arose and the breakdown of the exaggerated quantum. 8. The claim has been issued via Money Claims Online and, as a result, is subject to a character limit for the Particulars of Claim section of the Claim Form. The fact that generic wording appears to have been applied has obstructed any semblance of clarity. The Defendant trusts that the court will agree that a claim pleaded in such generic terms lacks the required details and requires proper particularisation in a detailed document within 14 days, per 16PD.3 9. The guidance for completing Money Claims Online confirms this and clearly states: "If you do not have enough space to explain your claim online and you need to serve extra, more detailed particulars on the defendant, tick the box that appears after the statement 'you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant.'" 10. No further particulars have been filed and to the Defendant's knowledge, no application asking the court service for more time to serve and/or relief from sanctions has been filed either. 11. In view of it having been entirely within the Claimant's Solicitors' gift to properly plead the claim at the outset and the claim being for a sum, well within the small claims limit, such that the Defendant considers it disproportionate and at odds with the overriding objective (in the context of a failure by the Claimant to properly comply with rules and practice directions) for a Judge to throw the erring Claimant a lifeline by ordering further particulars (to which a further defence might be filed, followed by further referral to a Judge for directions and allocation) the court is respectfully invited to strike this claim out. 13. Whilst the new Code and Act is not retrospective, it was enacted due to the failure of the self-serving BPA & IPC Codes of Practice. The Minister is indisputably talking about existing (not future) cases when declaring that 'recovery' fees were 'designed to extort money'. A clear steer for the Courts which it is hoped overrides mistakes made in a few appeal cases that the parking industry desperately rely upon (Britannia v Semark-Jullien, One Parking Solution v Wilshaw, Vehicle Control Services v Ward and Vehicle Control Services v Percy). 14. Far from being persuasive, regrettably these one-sided appeals saw Circuit Judges led in one direction by Counsel for parking firms, and the litigant-in-person consumers lacked the wherewithal to appeal. In case this Claimant tries to rely upon these, the Defendant avers that errors were made in every case. Evidence was either overlooked (including signage discrepancies in Wilshaw, where the Judge was also oblivious to the BPA Code of Practice and the DVLA KADOE requirement for landowner authority) or the Judge inexplicably sought out and quoted from the wrong Code altogether (Percy). In Ward, a few seconds' emergency stop out of the control of the driver was unfairly aligned with the admitted parking contract in Beavis. Those learned Judges were not in possession of the same level of information as the DLUHC, whose incoming statutory Code of Practice now clarifies such matters as a definition of 'parking' as well as consideration and grace periods and minor matters such as 'keying errors' or 'fluttering tickets/permits' where a PCN should not have been issued at all, or should have been cancelled in the pre-action dispute phase. POFA and CRA breaches 15. Pursuant to Schedule 4 paragraph 4(5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('the POFA') the sum claimed exceeds the maximum potentially recoverable from a registered keeper, even in cases where a firm may have complied with other POFA requirements (adequate signage, Notice to Keeper wording/dates, and a properly communicated 'relevant contract/relevant obligation'). If seeking keeper/hirer liability - unclear from the POC - the Claimant is put to strict proof of full compliance and liability transferred. 16. Claiming costs on an indemnity basis is unfair, per the Unfair Contract Terms Guidance (CMA37, para 5.14.3), the Government guidance on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 ('CRA'). The CRA introduced new requirements for 'prominence' of both contract terms and 'consumer notices'. In a parking context, this includes signage and all notices, letters and other communications intended to be read by the consumer. 17. Section 71 creates a duty upon courts to consider the test of fairness, including (but not limited to) whether all terms/notices were unambiguously and conspicuously brought to the attention of a consumer. Signage must be prominent, plentiful, well placed and lit, and all terms unambiguous and obligations clear. The Defendant avers that the CRA has been breached due to unfair/unclear terms and notices, pursuant to s62 and paying due regard to examples 6, 10, 14 & 18 of Schedule 2 and the requirements for fair/open dealing and good faith. ParkingEye v Beavis is distinguished (lack of legitimate interest/prominence of terms) 18. ParkingEye overcame the possibility of their £85 charge being dismissed as punitive, however the Supreme Court clarified that ‘the penalty rule is plainly engaged’ in parking cases, which must each be determined on their own facts. That 'unique' case met a commercial justification test, and took into account the prominent yellow/black uncluttered signs with £85 in the largest/boldest text. Rather than causing other parking charges to be automatically justified, the Beavis case facts set a high bar that this Claimant has failed to reach. 19. Paraphrasing from the Supreme Court, deterrence is likely to be penal if there is a lack of a 'legitimate interest' in performance extending beyond the prospect of compensation flowing directly from the alleged breach. The intention cannot be to punish a driver, nor to present them with hidden terms, unexpected/cumbersome obligations nor 'concealed pitfalls or traps'. 20. In the present case, the Claimant has fallen foul of those tests. The Claimant’s small signs have vague/hidden terms and a mix of small font, and are considered incapable of binding a driver. Consequently, it remains the Defendant’s position that no contract to pay an onerous 'penalty' was seen or agreed. Binding Court of Appeal authorities which are on all fours with a case involving unclear terms and a lack of ‘adequate notice’ of a parking charge, include: (i) Spurling v Bradshaw [1956] 1 WLR 461 (‘red hand rule’) and (ii) Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1970] EWCA Civ2, both leading authorities confirming that a clause cannot be incorporated after a contract has been concluded; and (iii) Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest: CA 5 Apr 2000, where Ms Vine won because it was held that she had not seen the terms by which she would later be bound, due to "the absence of any notice on the wall opposite the parking space'' (NB: when parking operator Claimants cite Vine, they often mislead courts by quoting out of context, Roch LJ's words about the Respondent’s losing case, and not from the ratio). 21. Fairness and clarity of terms and notices are paramount in the statutory Code and this is supported by the BPA & IPC Trade Bodies. In November 2020's Parking Review, solicitor Will Hurley, CEO of the IPC, observed: "Any regulation or instruction either has clarity or it doesn’t. If it’s clear to one person but not another, there is no clarity. The same is true for fairness. Something that is fair, by definition, has to be all-inclusive of all parties involved – it’s either fair or it isn’t. The introduction of a new ‘Code of Practice for Parking’ provides a wonderful opportunity to provide clarity and fairness for motorists and landowners alike." Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR 22. DVLA data is only supplied to pursue parking charges if there is an agreement flowing from the landholder (ref: KADOE rules). It is not accepted that this Claimant (an agent of a principal) has authority from the landowner to issue charges in this place in their own name. The Claimant is put to strict proof that they have standing to make contracts with drivers and litigate in their own name. 23. The Claimant failed to offer a genuinely independent Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). The Appeals Annex in the new incoming statutory Code shows that genuine disputes such as this would see the charge cancelled, had a fair ADR existed. Whether or not a person engaged with it, the Claimant's consumer blame culture and reliance upon the industry's own 'appeals service' should not sway the court into a belief that a fair appeal was ever on offer. The rival Trade Bodies' time-limited and opaque 'appeals' services fail to properly consider facts or rules of law and reject almost any dispute: e.g. the IAS upheld appeals in a woeful 4% of decided cases (IPC's 2020 Annual Report). Conclusion 24. The claim is entirely without merit. The Defendant believes that it is in the public interest that claims like this should be struck out because knowingly enhanced parking claims like this one cause consumer harm on a grand scale. 25. There is ample evidence to support the view - long held by many District Judges - that these are knowingly exaggerated claims. For HMCTS to only disallow those costs in the tiny percentage of cases that reach hearings whilst other claims to continue to flood the courts unabated, is to fail hundreds of thousands of consumers who suffer CCJs or pay inflated amounts, in fear of intimidating pre-action threats. 26. In the matter of costs, the Defendant asks: (a) at the very least, for standard witness costs for attendance at Court, pursuant to CPR 27.14, and (b) for a finding of unreasonable conduct by this Claimant, seeking costs pursuant to CPR 46.5. 27. Attention is drawn specifically to the (often-seen from this industry) distinct possibility of an unreasonably late Notice of Discontinuance. Whilst CPR r.38.6 states that the Claimant is liable for the Defendant's costs after discontinuance (r.38.6(1)) this does not normally apply to claims allocated to the small claims track (r.38.6(3)). However, the White Book states (annotation 38.6.1): "Note that the normal rule as to costs does not apply if a claimant in a case allocated to the small claims track serves a notice of discontinuance although it might be contended that costs should be awarded if a party has behaved unreasonably (r.27.14(2)(dg))." Statement of Truth I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
    • Hi, I was caught by the security guards today for shoplifting in John Lewis. I think total amount is about £500. They said they saw me on CCTV last week, I was freaked out so I admitted it. I know it’s awful… I cried as I was too scared and begged them pls don’t call the police. They took pics of me and wrote down my details from banking app as I didn’t have any id with me. I told them my difficulties that I was scammed £35k recently and I lost my job so I stole those things and sell them. I apologised and they said they won’t call the police but I’m banned and will receive letters from RLP for fines which including this time and the last time(I didn’t give back the goods I took last time). I know it’s very very bad, I feel shameful and so depressed so hopeless about everything happened. I wonder since it’s a lot of money, will they sue me, take me to the court, or will they change their mind to call the police when they check the cctv footage to check how much I owe them? I said sorry I really couldn’t afford the fine at this situation, they said it’s their job they can’t do anything. Later when I was out of the mall, the security guard said, I can call RLP to negotiate about the fee. Also I’m probably moving to another city in 2 months, so if they want to take me to court but I didn’t receive any letters what should I do… and the security guy told me it’s worse as I traveled to this city and stealing stuff. I’m home now but feeling awful, wish people could give me some advice, thank you very much.
    • Before you do any of the above – Stop! You need to spend a few days reading up on the stories on this sub- forum so that you understand the principles and you understand how to go about making your claim. We will help you – and you have a better than 95% chance of getting your money back – but you need to be in control of what you are doing. We will help you – but this is a self-help forum and you need to have done the reading so that you are confident of each step and you know your way forward. Please don't do anything at all – in particular don't send a letter of claim – until you have done all the reading and I would suggest that probably you will start drafting your letter of claim over the weekend. Also, you haven't told us anything about what has happened. We don't know dates, items dispatched, value, whether they were properly declared, whether you bought so-called insurance, you have been declined reimbursement but we don't know why. If you want us to help you then you will have to give us this basic information. Also the fact that you are an eBay trader makes this slightly more complicated although it doesn't at all affect your chances of success.  Read the other threads on this sub- forum – and especially the pinned threads at the top in order to understand the principles. You also quickly understand the kind of help that we will give you and you will understand some of the draft documents which have been used in other successful claims.
    • Thanks, I'm finishing up the skeleton and hope to have it done today. Will look at statement of case too and get that done over the next few days.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Barclaycard


Duffers Mum
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you could always try something like this

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Thank you for your letter dated **********, the contents of which are noted

 

I must draw your attention to the fact that this account is in dispute.

 

I also note your comments that your client has not been able to contact me and this statement is somewhat confusing. I wrote to ********** on the 10th May 2007 making a statutory request for a true executed copy of the agreement for the account numbered ********. The statutory time frame for this request is twelve working days as set out in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983. ******** failed to comply with this request in the required time frame, in fact they did not reply until the 29th June 2007. The document, which was supplied, was NOT a true copy of the original executed agreement and this is very clear. The document supplied had my address printed on the top of the document. The problem this causes is that the account was not opened at this address and therefore it is impossible that the document complied with my original request. I wrote to ********* on the ********* 2007 setting out the grounds, which I rejected what had been supplied, and requesting again that they supply the documentation that I requested. I enclose a copy of this letter for your records

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(2) …….

(3)….….

(4) ………

(4A)……

(5) ………

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections [(4) to (5)] do not apply to a small agreement.

 

 

Clearly the agreement which was supplied in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforcaable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced. I will re-iterate that this is clearly not a true copy of the executed agreement between ********* and myself.

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ********* become compliant with my request. As ****** are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

  • All charges levied since ******** 2007 be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as litttlewoods comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order
  • All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file
  • All collection activities by your company and Littlewoods cease with immediate effect until ******** comply with my request from ********* 2007 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

Clearly your pursuance of this debt falls into this category; in addition I must draw your attention to the fact that this debt is under investigation by Mr Garreth Cameron of Hampshire County Council Trading Standards as I have made a complaint as a direct result of Littlewoods failure to comply with the CCA 74 .

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

You refer to me as an evasive debtor, a remark I find very offensive given the circumstances.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist.

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Regards

 

 

 

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Hi DM,

 

sorry really busy at he mow, lets's not forget they still haven't complied with the form & content requirements as laid down by the Act & Regulations no matter how many sets of t&c's they send. With regard to their belief they've now complied fully they are sorely mistaken! I'll post up some suggestions later on this evening when i get a spare moment

 

kind regards,

shane

____________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

 

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All - Thanks for your replies, you lot really are the best!

 

Shane I will wait for your suggestions before compiling my letter to them, I will of course be asking them why they had the audacity to pass my account to Mercers without even checking the proper documentation had been sent and I expect a full grovelling apology for this and a promise that Mercers will be disinstructed immediately and that Barclaycard and them alone should deal with my account.

 

They of course will state that the application form and 6 sets of T&C's comply with the CCA request. I disagree. I am awaiting a reply to another letter I sent to them last week, the problem I have is that there are about 3/4 different people/depts dealing with this account. I think I'll address future correspondence to her with the fancy title (but no idea what she's on about)!! and state that she and she alone corresponds with me. Her letter finishes with the line that she trusts that the matter has been resolved to my satisfaction...ummmmm it most certainly has not. I guess it is really difficult for me to prove that its not a document which complies, but I think I just have to call their bluff on this one because they are obviously banking on me not actually knowing whether it does or not.

 

I have the financial ombudsman's details, what is the best way to proceed, should I write them in the first instance?

 

B/C have had since July to comply with my request, they've passed it to the muppets, sent me god knows how many sets of T&C's and an application form, I've written I don't know how many letters to them and still they continued to threaten and add charges (admittedly now refunded but distressing for all these months nonethesame) its about time things were taken to the next level.

 

I'll await Shane's suggestions later before putting a letter together.

 

Once again, I don't know what I'd have done without the CAG and the great people here. :)

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Hi all,

 

Well l think that if they say an application form and 6 sets of T&Cs comply with a CCA request then maybe they should attend spec savers for an eye exam and go back to school for reading lessons as summint that says application form does not mean it is a Consumer Credit Agreement.

 

 

Maybe, just me being sarky, you should offer them reading lessons DM as l am sure they cant read. :D

 

Chrissi

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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I just want to clarify something, which has probably been mentioned loads of times on this site but I can't find it! My application form (which Barclaycard says doubles as an agreement) has been sent to me by Barclaycard along with T&C's (x 6!) when people mention that the everything needs to be on one document, does that mean that when I applied for this card the T&C's should have been printed on the back of the application form when I signed it? If that is the case would I be right in thinking they would normally only be on one page? My reason for asking is that all the T&C's B/C have sent me have been photocopied and are on 2 pages back to back, which by my reckoning means they would have been on more than one page. Also I can't remember whether I applied for this card on line, would that make a difference? Sorry to be asking so many questions but I really need to get everything straight in my head, its all still such a muddle! :)

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NP DM, I hope that the FOS will be able to help with a few of the questions which you have that are left unanswered. Write a little list of questions to assist you when on the phone, as you may find that you are chatting for a while! The FOS do ask great questions, and reply to the ones which you may have. Failing that, they will write down your concerns and take them on board.

Let us know how you get on!

Red

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No I haven't got round to it yet, however I have at last received a response from TS who state that are in communcation with Barclaycard but that B/C still insist they have complied with everything. I also received a letter today from the Assistant to the Director (another posh title) in connection with my complaint, which states

 

"as far as we are concerend we have met our obligation blah blah blah...At the time you applied for your credit card the executed agreement was incorporated into the application, you signed a credit agreement in the prescribed form which embodied the full T&C's of your credit agreement in accordance with the terms blah blah blah.

 

Teh prescribed financial information together with the full T&C's of your agreement were set out on the reverse or otherwise incorporated into the application form and were specifically referred to in the credit agreement section which contains your signature blah blah blah.

 

the Bank consider the outstanding debt on your above account for which you have the benefit of credit by contractual consent, to be enforceable"

 

The letter is headed Final Response.

 

So are they right?

 

I am going to copy everything and send it to TS and see what they come back with.

 

I would be interested in what others have to say about this? :)

 

PS: Nothing in their letter apologising for sending everything to Mercers and them sending a Default Notice when B/C were actually in default because they admit they sent the wrong paperwork out! I have also advised TS of this!

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Hi DM

 

personally , i feel you need to get this off to Trading Standards

 

it is not unusual for the creditors to come up with this sort of claim in the hope that you will believe what they say without first checking their info

 

im sorry im a little pressed for time this morning so i havent had time to reread the whole thread,have your posted the agreement they sent you on here?

 

 

IMHO its best to send copies of all the info you have to TS,and let them look over it

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PT thanks for your input, i've copied everything to send to them, i've also blanked out stuff on a copy of the application form now so will try and get DH to put that on here later for the good people of CAG to have a look at and hopefully advise me. I have a feeling B/C might be right for once, however doesn't change the fact they passed to Mercers, issued Default Notice etc all whilst they had sent me the wrong documentation and for that alone they need pulling up! :)

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I've got everything ready now and will send to TS in Northampton tomorrow, they are particularly interested in the letter I received from B/C admitting they cocked up :) TS stated in their email to me "With regard to the provision of a copy agreement made in response to a request under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Barclaycard claim that the copy agreements sent out by them comply with Section 78 by virtue of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 which permitts certain information to be ommitted from copies of agreements when provided in copy form. This issue is still currently under discussion with Barclaycard. "

 

What is my position whilst TS are investigating, is it still classed as being in dispute? Also should I write to B/C complaining (again) that they have admitted they cocked up but where is my full apology for instructing Mercers when they shouldn't have and issuing a default notice when they should have and also stating the account is still in dispute whilst TS investigate. B/C are obviously aware of TS involvement as per comments above. Any advice gratefully received :)

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Hi DM,

 

Apologies for my tardy response. I concur with Paul, you need to pass this on to TS now and have them look into it. (fingers crossed you have a proactive TS like my one is:D )

 

I standby my earlier comments that BC have failed to comply with the statutory Form & Content Requirements in the alleged agreement they have provided. IMO it is not acceptable for them to put the financial terms (including the prescribed terms) as set out in Agreement REgs of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations in a completely separate document titled T&C's. The Act & Regulations are clear on these matters and state:

 

The ACT:-

S.180

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements

 

 

and

 

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

The Regs state:-

 

3(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instru­ment or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

 

 

Form and content of regulated consumer credit agreements

 

2.-(1) Subject to paragraph (2) below, documents embodying regulated

consumer credit agreements (other than modifying agreements) shall contain

the information set out in Column 2 of Schedule 1to these Regulations in so far

as it relates to the type of agreement referred to in Column 1.

 

(4) Subject to paragraph (5) below, the information about financial and

related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 19 of Schedule I to these

Regulations, and also the statements of the protection and remedies available

to debtors under the Act specified in Forms 5 to 10of Part I of Schedule 2, shall

be shown together as a whole in documents embodying regulated consumer

credit agreements and not interspersed with other information apart from

subtotals of total amounts and cross-references to terms of the agreement:

 

Creditors far to often happily mention they can omit the debtors signature and details under the requirements of a 'true copy' which is true, however what they conveniently overlook is what they must provide within the agreement as to form and content, not on a completely separate document titled t&c's.

 

It would also be useful if we could see the agreement and t&c's they sent, particularly the separate doc you mention that supposedly contains your cancellation rights under s64 of the ACt. I can only assume that they are trying to cover all their bases, they have a legal requirement to provide you, within 7 days of the agreement concluding with exact details of how you can cancel the agreement. They are also required to send these details to you as part of your CCA Request and you are entitled to receive the agreement and any other document referred to in it. Furthermore if they never sent them to you at all then the agreement could be unenforcable by virtue of s127(4)(b).

 

kind regards,

shane

 

 

____________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

____________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

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Hi Shane and thanks for your comments (don't you ever sleep! :) )I must admit I am very confused by everything, have a blank copy of my application form and just waiting for DH to scan that and the most recent T&C's (which look identical to the first set they sent only a cancellation box has mysteriously appeared on it now) which is undated so difficult to prove when it was actually produced.

 

Am sending the documents which TS have asked for today recorded delivery so they should get those hopefully on Monday. Do I need to write to B/C in the meantime telling them account is still in dispute and charges and interest should not be added and also that Mercers should be told to back off? Thanks :)

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I'm sure Shane has covered everything, I just wish I understood it! ;) Should I be writing to B/C and/or Mercers in the meantime whilst TS are investigating? :)

 

 

Hiya,

 

I don't think you need to write to Mercers/BC for now, the account is firmly in dispute and besides they are receiving the monthly payments from you at your own agreed rate. If Mercers send anymore threatening letters then post up details, also I'm sure you're keeping records of all correspondance from them anyway.

 

kind regards,

shane

____________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

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Hi Shane - Excellent that will save me popping off to see my friend in the post office won't it!

 

Sainsbury's keeping to their word about giving me 3 weeks grace whilst they investigate, I'll probably report them to TS once they start hassling me again.

 

Thanks for all your help/advice :)

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Hi Shane - Excellent that will save me popping off to see my friend in the post office won't it!

 

Sainsbury's keeping to their word about giving me 3 weeks grace whilst they investigate, I'll probably report them to TS once they start hassling me again.

 

Thanks for all your help/advice :)

 

lol, you bought that banjo yet:D

____________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have now received confirmation from TS that they have received all my paperwork, and hopefully they will take a look and let me know what they think shortly.

 

Must admit all has gone very quiet from both B/C and Mercers since TS became involved (long may it last I say!), what would be the likely outcome if TS say B/C have not complied. Are they likely to continue chasing me? :)

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