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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Welcome Finance - This company needs to be banned.


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DH got another car (out of panic) and I've got my own so we aren't really bothered about the one with WCF.

 

There's normally another of the cars parked next to that one so it would be impossible for them to take unless they took a lamp post out on the street as well :).

 

Basically we think we've paid half and asked to do a VT on this basis but then this bloke turned up and said no you still owe money, but that was just his word, we haven't had any letters to say there's money owing.

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DH got another car (out of panic) and I've got my own so we aren't really bothered about the one with WCF.

 

There's normally another of the cars parked next to that one so it would be impossible for them to take unless they took a lamp post out on the street as well :).

 

Basically we think we've paid half and asked to do a VT on this basis but then this bloke turned up and said no you still owe money, but that was just his word, we haven't had any letters to say there's money owing.

OK, I think I'm getting a little confused :confused:

The bloke turned up saying he'd come to repo??

You've paid about a half, so definitely a third then??

You asked them to VT, did they accept??

Is there a default on the account??

Is the PPI still paying the account??

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OK sorry,

 

Had a mickey mouse DN and termination letter which WF woman told DH to ignore and keep paying for car.

 

Couple of weeks later wrote to WF to ask to VT car as according to credit report DH has paid half now.

 

A couple of weeks after this the chappy turns up saying he's come to repo car.

 

DH hasn't paid now for about 3 months as we don't know what the situation is and what would be the best way to go forward.

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OK sorry,

 

Wrote to WF to ask to VT car as according to credit report DH has paid half now.

 

A couple of weeks later this chappy turns up saying he's come to repo car.

 

Prior to this we had the mickey mouse DN and then a termination letter which WF woman said to ignore and keep on paying for car.

 

DH hasn't paid now for about 3 months as we don't know what the situation is and what would be the best way to go forward.

Have you made any payments since the termination??

Have Welcome sent you any reply in writing regarding the VT? It's my understanding that if there is a default on the account Welcome won't VT.

Because you've paid more than a third you don't need to keep the car on your premises. It's protected goods and they can't repo without a court order no matter where it's parked :D

I'm not 100% on the VT procedure but I would assume they need to give you some sort of written communication before they proceed :confused:

But then if the bloke just turned up saying he'd come to repo and there was still money owing, I would think they had refused the VT, but that's just my interpretation.

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Yes DH made a couple of payments (he pays weekly, or did)

 

We haven't had any communication from them so I assume they won't let him VT, but nor have they said if he paid x amount then he can. So I am dis-regarding that part atm.

 

Def paid more than a third, so it's a waiting game to see what tactics they try next. We've got to keep the car offt he road as there's no insurance on it anyway and we wouldn't want to give the Heat any reason to be able to impound the car eh.

 

Having said that maybe he's better off accepting the Termination letter and pay the arrears, now that could be interesting if they take it to court. I shall keep you posted hee-hee.

 

I'm expecting another blokey visit :)

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Yes DH made a couple of payments (he pays weekly, or did)

 

We haven't had any communication from them so I assume they won't let him VT, but nor have they said if he paid x amount then he can. So I am dis-regarding that part atm.

 

Def paid more than a third, so it's a waiting game to see what tactics they try next. We've got to keep the car off the road as there's no insurance on it anyway and we wouldn't want to give the Heat any reason to be able to impound the car eh.

 

I'm expecting another blokey visit :)

Well don't give the keys or log book! If they take it you will be entitled to all your payments back, the car or value of and interest.

You might as well just leave it up to them now and wait and see what they do next.

If you've made payments they'll need to send a new dn and tn before they do anything else anyway.

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Oh well... Do I have a story about Welcome, Mine started when I was 19 just passed my test so really wanted a car I searched the net and found welcome ACF in fact sent my details and got a response. I was well paid about 20,000 a year and thought I could afforded car finance had no other debts. I went down to take a look at the cars on offer and got blagged into buying a corsa 1.9dti, with 5 days free insurance ... sounded good to me so signed the forms and went on my way. Did I have a shock when I got home and told my parents I looked closer with my DAD and noticed I now owed them 16000 for a dull corsa with 78000 miles on the clock lol I felt like a right dumb ass.

 

So doing the right thing I kept up my payments £295 per month after 3 weeks the gearbox broke It took me forever to get it fixed under their mechanical fault insurance policy. Once done the clutch broke so I had to claim again I got to a stage where I threatened to drive it trough the showrooms window unless they fixed it “Shame on me”

I also forgot to mention the insurance was a killer £190 per month I just saw my money burning up in my bank.

So as you can imagine I got to a stage, being young were I thought enough is enough and stopped paying be honest what’s the worst they can do “Take the car back” hell I didn’t want it anyway I thought who cares “Remember I was 18-19 years old”.. So after about 3 months of non payment they called me trying the bully tactic I just laughed at them and told them were the car was and to collect it.. Nothing ever happened It was parked at the side of my mum’s house for two and a half years I even called them to chase them up about collecting it.

I must have owed them plenty of money by now three years had passed and only about three payments made add to that fees and charges, if I remember right I was about £50 for a letter or something stupid like that. Now this is where my story gets really crazy I met a girl who is now married to my friend, at the time she worked for welcome as a debt collector and she told me she does anything to get the money she even got weed of a customer as payment and put the money in from herself as payment, this my friends lost me all respect for welcome she even bragged about how she took peoples cars and left them crying at their doors...... I know it’s her job but isn’t that what Hitler henchmen said after the war...

Well the end of my story will have all you people who have been ripped off by welcome feeling a bit better.. I had the car disposed... of sent to china as scrap metal in the end I think ,then waited a year and checked my credit file and surprise surprise no debt not one entry from welcome my credit score is running at 934 at the min, I called welcome to ask about my account and they can’t find it I don’t exist in their computers... lol

What are friends for eh.......

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Oh well... Do I have a story about Welcome, Mine started when I was 19 just passed my test so really wanted a car I searched the net and found welcome ACF in fact sent my details and got a response. I was well paid about 20,000 a year and thought I could afforded car finance had no other debts. I went down to take a look at the cars on offer and got blagged into buying a corsa 1.9dti, with 5 days free insurance ... sounded good to me so signed the forms and went on my way. Did I have a shock when I got home and told my parents I looked closer with my DAD and noticed I now owed them 16000 for a dull corsa with 78000 miles on the clock lol I felt like a right dumb ass.

 

So doing the right thing I kept up my payments £295 per month after 3 weeks the gearbox broke It took me forever to get it fixed under their mechanical fault insurance policy. Once done the clutch broke so I had to claim again I got to a stage where I threatened to drive it trough the showrooms window unless they fixed it “Shame on me”

I also forgot to mention the insurance was a killer £190 per month I just saw my money burning up in my bank.

So as you can imagine I got to a stage, being young were I thought enough is enough and stopped paying be honest what’s the worst they can do “Take the car back” hell I didn’t want it anyway I thought who cares “Remember I was 18-19 years old”.. So after about 3 months of non payment they called me trying the bully tactic I just laughed at them and told them were the car was and to collect it.. Nothing ever happened It was parked at the side of my mum’s house for two and a half years I even called them to chase them up about collecting it.

I must have owed them plenty of money by now three years had passed and only about three payments made add to that fees and charges, if I remember right I was about £50 for a letter or something stupid like that. Now this is where my story gets really crazy I met a girl who is now married to my friend, at the time she worked for welcome as a debt collector and she told me she does anything to get the money she even got weed of a customer as payment and put the money in from herself as payment, this my friends lost me all respect for welcome she even bragged about how she took peoples cars and left them crying at their doors...... I know it’s her job but isn’t that what Hitler henchmen said after the war...

Well the end of my story will have all you people who have been ripped off by welcome feeling a bit better.. I had the car disposed... of sent to china as scrap metal in the end I think ,then waited a year and checked my credit file and surprise surprise no debt not one entry from welcome my credit score is running at 934 at the min, I called welcome to ask about my account and they can’t find it I don’t exist in their computers... lol

What are friends for eh.......

 

 

:D:D:lol::lol: I love it im sure this will raise a smile or two thanks for sharing

I am a consumer just like you, please get a second opinion or investigate yourself on anything I advise as I am in no way legally trained. Everything I know has come from the Mighty CAG and fellow CAGGERS. :cool:

 

If I have helped in any way please click my reputation star and make a donation to CAG to enable us all to continue to help each other :cool:

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Hi everyone, just to give you an update. I had a 'credit guy' who deals with these unfair credit agreements etc etc come to the house today with regards to a matter I'm having with Swift Advances. Anyway, he's also going to look at my brother's Welcome issue. he said he has dealt ALOT with Welcome over this past while. Anyway, he reckons my borther is entitled to the whole PPI refund of £2,000 plus interest. The interest they were charging him was 44% and he said that would be over 6 years!! Happy days if it works out that way. The crowd dealing with it operate no win no fee and if and when my brother wins they only take 10% of the refund which I think is pretty good under the circumstances. He also said with Welcome they usually pay out within 3 months. Fingers crossed!!!;)

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Hi All

 

Just wanted to say.......guess who is Welcome free????

 

That would be ME!!

 

It's taken 2 years of hard fighting but in the end I seem to have got there - just wanted to say a big thanks to the "old welcome gang" back when this thread was in double figure pages.

 

You know who you are but to mention a few would of course include Dipply, Stewie, Postggj, BO2, Voda, Jdene and Dad of Holly.

 

Apologies to anyone I may have forgotten it is not on purpose.

 

You are all amazing

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Hi All

 

Just wanted to say.......guess who is Welcome free????

 

That would be ME!!

 

It's taken 2 years of hard fighting but in the end I seem to have got there - just wanted to say a big thanks to the "old welcome gang" back when this thread was in double figure pages.

 

You know who you are but to mention a few would of course include Dipply, Stewie, Postggj, BO2, Voda, Jdene and Dad of Holly.

 

Apologies to anyone I may have forgotten it is not on purpose.

 

You are all amazing

 

Fair one and andie! Nice to hear! Must be Blessed Relief after 2 years of fighting these ****!!!

 

Give us A synopsis of your case if you would please??? :D I remember some of your story> And I found your opinions very helpful and informative!!!

 

Will you be around to lend of your experiences??? :cool:

 

Cheers, MARK

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Hi everyone, just to give you an update. I had a 'credit guy' who deals with these unfair credit agreements etc etc come to the house today with regards to a matter I'm having with Swift Advances. Anyway, he's also going to look at my brother's Welcome issue. he said he has dealt ALOT with Welcome over this past while. Anyway, he reckons my borther is entitled to the whole PPI refund of £2,000 plus interest. The interest they were charging him was 44% and he said that would be over 6 years!! Happy days if it works out that way. The crowd dealing with it operate no win no fee and if and when my brother wins they only take 10% of the refund which I think is pretty good under the circumstances. He also said with Welcome they usually pay out within 3 months. Fingers crossed!!!;)

 

 

Still alot when its something that can easily be done yourself (PPI)....my opinion of course

I am a consumer just like you, please get a second opinion or investigate yourself on anything I advise as I am in no way legally trained. Everything I know has come from the Mighty CAG and fellow CAGGERS. :cool:

 

If I have helped in any way please click my reputation star and make a donation to CAG to enable us all to continue to help each other :cool:

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Hi All

 

Just wanted to say.......guess who is Welcome free????

 

That would be ME!!

 

It's taken 2 years of hard fighting but in the end I seem to have got there - just wanted to say a big thanks to the "old welcome gang" back when this thread was in double figure pages.

 

You know who you are but to mention a few would of course include Dipply, Stewie, Postggj, BO2, Voda, Jdene and Dad of Holly.

 

Apologies to anyone I may have forgotten it is not on purpose.

 

You are all amazing

 

Fabulous news im so very pleased for you! Give us a quick rundown just to show the newer ones it CAN be done! Congrats!!

I am a consumer just like you, please get a second opinion or investigate yourself on anything I advise as I am in no way legally trained. Everything I know has come from the Mighty CAG and fellow CAGGERS. :cool:

 

If I have helped in any way please click my reputation star and make a donation to CAG to enable us all to continue to help each other :cool:

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Ok very quickly and briefly as it's a very long saga and I am bound by some things I cannot say

 

*PPI of £3k on a £1.5k loan - could not claim due to a pre existing medical condition

 

* Asked to cancel and was refused - asked for a refund as was refused then was ignored

 

* Filed in court Sept 2008 - got a judgement by default and warrented to bailiffs - WFS applied and were granted set aside.

 

* Number of court dates later where they failed to provide documentation etc and were given a great deal of latitude by the judge he recommended that we come to an agreement.

 

* Agreement was reached in Oct 09 in the court house on the issue of PPI and the thing I can't talk about (but if you look back a long way in thread you make get a hint) was told WFS would send it in writing in the next few days.

 

* WFS go back to ignorance mode and I get no offer until Jan 10 - in the meantime they decide to default me - with their crappy DN that we all know is invalid and especially when they default an incorrect amount that doesn't include the settlement already agreed.

 

*Their offer has changed since Oct 09 - not by much but slightly decreased - I agree to the smaller amount on condition my credit is rectified.

 

* WFS back in ignorance mode and I hear nothing until a lovely letter from TLG last month entitled "final demand for payment" - write to them with the facts and tell them they need to shout across the office and ask WFS whats going on

 

* TLG reply we are not going to look into this start paying us - i got the email address details for a manager and to give her her due she promised that she would look into it.

 

* 3 weeks later I'm getting emails from TLG saying that WFS are not replying to them

 

* Today email from TLG - case closed my acceptance has been accepted by Welcome

 

They are gone :)

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Excellent story thanks for sharing defo worth the wait is it this thread to read back on or did u have ur own just for reference ;)

I am a consumer just like you, please get a second opinion or investigate yourself on anything I advise as I am in no way legally trained. Everything I know has come from the Mighty CAG and fellow CAGGERS. :cool:

 

If I have helped in any way please click my reputation star and make a donation to CAG to enable us all to continue to help each other :cool:

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Hi All

 

Just wanted to say.......guess who is Welcome free????

 

That would be ME!!

 

It's taken 2 years of hard fighting but in the end I seem to have got there - just wanted to say a big thanks to the "old welcome gang" back when this thread was in double figure pages.

 

You know who you are but to mention a few would of course include Dipply, Stewie, Postggj, BO2, Voda, Jdene and Dad of Holly.

 

Apologies to anyone I may have forgotten it is not on purpose.

 

You are all amazing

 

FANTASTIC and well done....;)

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Its Getting Bigger Now

 

We Get There In The End

 

Quickly Or In Andies Case, Drawn Out

 

She Is One Happy Girl I Can Tell You

 

Facing Welcome In Court Is An Experience To Those Of Us Who Have Done It

 

Andie

 

Send Mr P An M&S Voucher Now For A New Suite To Rub It In:lol::lol::lol:

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Its Getting Bigger Now

 

We Get There In The End

 

Quickly Or In Andies Case, Drawn Out

 

She Is One Happy Girl I Can Tell You

 

Facing Welcome In Court Is An Experience To Those Of Us Who Have Done It

 

Andie

 

Send Mr P An M&S Voucher Now For A New Suite To Rub It In:lol::lol::lol:

 

Don't think I can post - don't have a forwarding address if you catch my drift!

:lol:

 

and as you will also know what the thing is i can't mention you will know how happy i am :)

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