SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[joesoap]

They did the same with me; threatened bryan carter (their in house sols). I just wrote back saying that while the account is in dispute they can take no further action. Heard nothing for a fortnight now.

 

Just received letter from Fredrickson. They've been instructed to take no further action. That's them off my son's back (apart from getting back and confirming that any defaults they put on have been removed) but I still have to deal with Crap1. As yet, the CCA hasn't been supplied; with any luck, they'll not be able to find it. Outstanding balance is only a ton anyway taking account of charges.

[un1boy]

Just received letter from Fredrickson. They've been instructed to take no further action.

 

That's great mate.

 

Outstanding balance is only a ton anyway taking account of charges.

 

Have you claimed the charges back though? If not, you should do first then go for the write-off of the debt.

[joesoap]

That's great mate.

 

 

 

Cheers Uni

 

Have you claimed the charges back though? If not, you should do first then go for the write-off of the debt.

 

We've had the charges back and now waiting to see if Crap1 come up with the CCA; they are still within the time limits. Perhaps I might just go for write off anyway as it is obvious that Fredrickson didn't have the CCA and I would imagine C1 didn't instruct them not to chase up for no reason. Crap1 probably doesn't have a CCA

[un1boy]

We've had the charges back and now waiting to see if Crap1 come up with the CCA; they are still within the time limits. Perhaps I might just go for write off anyway as it is obvious that Fredrickson didn't have the CCA and I would imagine C1 didn't instruct them not to chase up for no reason. Crap1 probably doesn't have a CCA

 

Fair enough mate....good luck, sounds like they don't have it...

[Rubymay]

Thanks Zubo - I thought it all seemed too easy!! I shouldn't have dared to breathe that sigh of relief.

 

I will follow your suggested strategy and hope it works completely this time.

 

Thanks again for the advice.

 

Ruby May

[jalex_uk]

Subscribing

[rhsymonds]

Right,

Requested agreement from HSBC, and after the 12 days expired i got a copy which hadnt been signed by anyone and didnt even have a date on. It seems they just looked at the loan account and printed an agreement with the starting balance.

 

Anyway, i told them (with a little help from peterbard) that without my signature i couldnt verify it as the original document, so i would require a signed copy otherwise i will be seeking court action, meaning they are still in default.

 

Received a letter this morning saying:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Thankyou for confirming receipt of a true copy of your loan agreement forms & requesting a signed copy.

 

Having discussed the matter at length with the banks legal department I can confirm that we are not required to provide you with a signed copy.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation.

 

Heidi Daniels

 

pp: Mrs A A Phillips

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Any ideas how i should respond ?

 

Can an un-signed copy be true even if they just printed it out ?

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Arrogant B*******s

Wrie back and tell them that they have not provided a true copy and ask to see where in your correspondance yu stated that you were satisfied you recieved one.

Tell them that the clock is still ticking .

meanwhile have we had a look at what they sent you.

Email or direct me to the posting if you like.

Best regards

Peter

[rhsymonds]

Thanks Peter, you are my knight in shining armour !!!

 

Ill write up what they sent me later as im on lunch at the moment.

 

Thanks again,

 

Ross

[rhsymonds]

Ill write up what they sent me later .........

 

Sent to me 24/04:

-------------------------------------------------

I enclose a true copy of the original agreement which fulfils our obligations under section 77 of the CCA. I can also confirm that our laid down written procedures require the bank to provide each customer with a copy of the agreement at the time the paperwork is completed and this would have been done in your case. As per regulation 3(2)(b) Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Document) Regulations 1983 this copy does not require signing.

 

I trust this meets with your requirements.

 

Heidi Daniels.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

The attached document is 5 pages long, showing the (alleged) initial amount of the loan, the number of repayments and the total interest payable.

 

I have noticed it says "monthly repayments of £x each, commencing on the 9th monthly between 1 and 2 months from drawdown"

 

Which is surprising because ive always made payments on the 28th ?!?!!?

 

The other sections quote CCA 1974 almost 3 times per page, and there is a bit which says

"By signing above, I/We authorise you to pay from my/our current account number 2******1 (my account) arrangement fee etc etc" but there is no space for a signature above !?!??

 

The other section contains "Loan Terms" which seems fairly standard, with nothing about me individually.

 

Thanks,

 

R

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

My advice is just reply stating the following

 

"I refer to your letter dated */*/* the contents of which are noted".

 

"Please be advised that despite what your legal department asserts I too have taken advice and do not consider that you have complied with your statutory duty to supply me a properly executed agreement".

 

"Also please note that your failure will leave me no alternative but to report you to the appropiate authorities. In addition the failure to supply said agreement causes the alledged debt to be unenforcable in law".

[Peterbard]

Sent to me 24/04:

-------------------------------------------------

I enclose a true copy of the original agreement which fulfils our obligations under section 77 of the CCA. I can also confirm that our laid down written procedures require the bank to provide each customer with a copy of the agreement at the time the paperwork is completed and this would have been done in your case. As per regulation 3(2)(b) Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Document) Regulations 1983 this copy does not require signing.

 

I trust this meets with your requirements.

 

Heidi Daniels.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

The attached document is 5 pages long, showing the (alleged) initial amount of the loan, the number of repayments and the total interest payable.

 

I have noticed it says "monthly repayments of £x each, commencing on the 9th monthly between 1 and 2 months from drawdown"

 

Which is surprising because ive always made payments on the 28th ?!?!!?

 

The other sections quote CCA 1974 almost 3 times per page, and there is a bit which says

"By signing above, I/We authorise you to pay from my/our current account number 2******1 (my account) arrangement fee etc etc" but there is no space for a signature above !?!??

 

The other section contains "Loan Terms" which seems fairly standard, with nothing about me individually.

 

Thanks,

 

R

Hi

it soundsl ike from what they say they have sent the unexecuted precontractual copy.

This is not what you requested you want a true copy of the executed agreement.

As per your request their is nothing in the copy they sent you to say you signed.

 

Write back and say someting like

Thankyou for your alledged copy of the precontractual information you wil note however that even if i accepted this as such, it is not what was requested i require true copy of the Executed agreement and any other documents referred to theirin.

I find it difficult to understand why you do not forward a copy of the signed agreement if it exists.

As i am sure you realise not provideing this evidence would conflict with pre-action protocol 4.6 and would make your postition extremely hard to justify should this matter go to court.

If it were shown that this was the case then the agreement would be unenforceable.

I would remind you that you are still in default etc.

 

Sorry about the spelling but you get the idea,

Best

regards

Peter

[rhsymonds]

Sorry about the spelling .......

 

Ah Ha Ha Ha, seriously Peter, your spelling is the least of my worries !!

 

Im so grateful for the letter, Thankyou.

 

Ill let you know what the cowboys come up with next and thanks for replying so fast.

 

R

[rhsymonds]

Hi Peter, Can you see anything wrong with this before i send it ??

----------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Heidi,

 

I thank you for your alleged copy of the pre-contractual information. You will note however that even if I accepted this as such, it is not what was requested. I require a true copy of the Executed agreement and any other documents referred to therein.

 

As I am sure your legal department will realise, not providing this evidence would conflict with Pre-Action Protocol 4.6 and would make your position extremely hard to justify should this matter go to court. If it were shown that this was the case then the agreement would be unenforceable.

 

I find it difficult to understand why you do not forward a copy of the signed agreement if it exists.

 

Finally I would like to remind you that you are still in default and that the deadlines have expired for you to provide me with this document. If a statement showing a £0 balance is not forthcoming in the next 14 days, I will be reporting this matter to the relevant authorities and questioning your fitness to hold a credit licence.

 

I look forward to your rapid response,

 

Ross Symonds

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

Cheers

[joesoap]

After weeks of trying (since 9/2 to be exact), Wescot still has not provided me with the CCA. I now want to tell them (politely, eh!) of course, to shove the debt where the sun don't shine. I've followed the procedure as laid down in this thread to the letter but they can't bother their ar*e. Can anyone advise on a final letter to send them. I've already informed them that they are to be reported to the appropriate authorities but it's my personal satisfaction of a debt written off (even for the time being) that I'm after. I do have a feeling however that they might come up with a "constructed" agreement, hence the stalling.

[BlueSmartie]

Hi

it soundsl ike from what they say they have sent the unexecuted precontractual copy.

This is not what you requested you want a true copy of the executed agreement.

As per your request their is nothing in the copy they sent you to say you signed.

 

 

But a creditor can omit the signatures from any copy sent under CCA s77/78 so there is no right to insist on a signed copy under these sections of the Act.

 

BS

[BlueSmartie]

After weeks of trying (since 9/2 to be exact), Wescot still has not provided me with the CCA. I now want to tell them (politely, eh!) of course, to shove the debt where the sun don't shine. I've followed the procedure as laid down in this thread to the letter but they can't bother their ar*e. Can anyone advise on a final letter to send them. I've already informed them that they are to be reported to the appropriate authorities but it's my personal satisfaction of a debt written off (even for the time being) that I'm after. I do have a feeling however that they might come up with a "constructed" agreement, hence the stalling.

 

Why do anything? For as long as they don't supply you with a copy, they can't enforce the agreement! I wouldn't keep reminding them to look for it!

 

BS

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

But a creditor can omit the signatures from any copy sent under CCA s77/78 so there is no right to insist on a signed copy under these sections of the Act.

 

BS

 

They can't if they want to enforce the debt.

 

No signature no possability of enforcement

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Why do anything? For as long as they don't supply you with a copy, they can't enforce the agreement! I wouldn't keep reminding them to look for it!

 

BS

 

I assume the poster want's to bring matters to a head because the DCA will just keep passing it from DCA to DCA & on each occasion it will all start up again.

[BlueSmartie]

They can't if they want to enforce the debt.

 

No signature no possability of enforcement

 

Yes, that is correct - they would have to produce a signed copy in court - but only if you requested that evidence! I expect there are many CCJs obtained with no agreement paperwork because the debtor is too afraid to go to court or challenge the creditor!

 

But it is incorrect to suggest that a creditor has not complied with a s77/78 request because the copy sent does not show signatures!

 

BS

[weaver440]

After weeks of trying (since 9/2 to be exact), Wescot still has not provided me with the CCA. I now want to tell them (politely, eh!) of course, to shove the debt where the sun don't shine. I've followed the procedure as laid down in this thread to the letter but they can't bother their ar*e. Can anyone advise on a final letter to send them. I've already informed them that they are to be reported to the appropriate authorities but it's my personal satisfaction of a debt written off (even for the time being) that I'm after. I do have a feeling however that they might come up with a "constructed" agreement, hence the stalling.

 

 

Hi Joe,

 

Here is a letter I did to my loan company - I took it from 2 letters I found oo 2 different threads, unfortunately I can.t remember who. Hope this helps. Also just to say that I have written to trading standards and the office of fair trading making a complaint about British Gas personal Loans. I also sent copies of all my letters and emails with this final letter. Good Luck.

 

Account No. ***********************

 

Dear Ms *********

 

IMPORTANT – YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY

 

 

Consumer Credit Act (1974)

 

 

 

As you are aware, I have written to you on numerous occasions requesting that you supply me with information regarding the above account (see enclosed correspondence), which is my legal right under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You had 12 days, plus an additional 30 days inclusive of holidays and weekends to comply by sending me all the information requested.

 

 

 

Accordingly, as a result of your failure to comply with my request I am unable to acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

 

 

Your non-compliance with my request means that your company has committed an offence under Section 77 (4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, summarily punishable by a Level 4 fine on the standard scale.

 

I also understand that under the Act, due to your failure to comply with my statutory request, you or any acting agent are unable to enforce an agreement so I have therefore ceased making payments and not only that will seek to recover any payments made to date

 

A credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is therefore a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Please take note that any legal action you may contemplate will be vigorously defended and contested.

Furthermore your actions arguably do not comply with the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) Debt Collection Guidelines of July 2003, in that you have ‘communicated with [me] in an inaccurate or misleading manner (section 2.1) by ‘presenting information in that it creates a false or misleading impression’.

 

Administration of Justice Act 1970 and Protection from Harassment Act 1997

 

Your operatives have sought to contact me on a number of occasions despite my constant requests that all correspondence should be in writing.

I now consider that in light of your failures as mentioned above, and reference my letter to you regarding telephone harassment any telephone calls from you will continue to constitute harassment and so from this date any further calls to me will be reported to the Police.

In addition you are in breach of the OFT’s July 2003 guidelines in that you are wrongly pursuing [me] contrary to Section 2.8(i).

 

Data Protection Act (1998)

 

Another worrying facet of this whole case is the threat of unlawful dissemination of my data by your company to a third party. Under the Data Protection Act I have principled rights in that:

 

(Schedule I)

1. Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully.

2. Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes.

(Schedule II)

1. The subject has given his consent.

2. The processing is necessary “for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party.”

 

 

 

 

The fact that you have not provided me with a copy of the agreement negates any Notice of Default being served on me, as required by the conditions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Incidentally, if the documentation were to be produced, you will be aware the default notice serves to cancel any original terms and conditions and as such cancels any right you or my creditor might have, implied or otherwise, to share my information without my consent.

 

I would then be looking to receive substantial compensation from your firm for this breach of my rights.

 

 

What I require

 

I require you with immediate effect to ensure that all data held by you regarding the alleged agreement/debt is removed from any and all Credit Reference Agency database.

 

Ensure that all data held by you regarding me is fully destroyed.

 

Ensure that no further telephone calls are made to me, or my place of work.

 

Ensure that all correspondence is made in writing.

 

I require written confirmation of the above together with a quarterly statement that no data has been processed by you regarding me.

 

Failure to comply

• Failure to comply with my request under the Data Protection Act 1998 will result in the matter being referred to the Information Commissioner.
  
• Failure to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 will cause me to refer the matter to the Office of Fair Trading, and Trading Standards.
  
• Failure to comply with the requirements Office of Fair Trading guidelines will lead to a report being submitted.
  
• Continued telephone contact will generate a complaint for harassment to the police.
  
• If you fail to comply with any or all of the above I reserve the right to take action against you without further contact.

I expect to hear from you within 10 working days from the date of this letter.

 

 

Any further action on your part or that of my alleged original creditor pursuant to your and/or their breaches of my statutory rights will be taken as a willful act of harassment and each instance will be reported to the police.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[joesoap]

Thanks Weaver

 

I've done all that but now, after taking advice from the wonderful Cornucopia, I'm just gonig to sit back and forget about it. There isn't a default on my credit file.

[weaver440]

Thanks Weaver

 

I've done all that but now, after taking advice from the wonderful Cornucopia, I'm just gonig to sit back and forget about it. There isn't a default on my credit file.

 

 

Absolutaly right! Now that I have sent my letter of and given them 10 days to confirm that they have carried out my requests and written the debt of and refunded monies paid that is exactly what I am going to do.

[spiritgirl59]

Thank you Weaver.

 

Your letter is a big help to me too as I am at the same stage now with some of my DCAs. I was wondering what to write as a final letter and yours is excellent.

 

Have clicked your scales.

 

Spiritgirl

[weaver440]

Well, I now need some serious advice if there is anyone who can help. You can see from my previous post how far things had come, well I got a letter dated 11th from AA personal Finance ( underwriters for British gas Loans I think) from there customer care dept. Basically the letter is a response to my Harrasment letter sent to British Gas but because it is a complaint they have just looked at it as an isolated letter and passed it on to the complaints dept. I have responded to the letter advising them that there is a lack of communication at there end as this is not just about harrassment - the account is in dispute I suggest Mr. so n' so go and check the records! Anyway, yesterday I had another letter from Mr. so n' so at AA personal Finance, again apologising that I am still unhappy about the repeated phone calls and that I still remain unhappy about there service!!! He is going to order me a copy of the original application form and agreement and also statement of account!!!!!!!!!!!!! What I want to clarify is - if they do indeed produce the documents at this late stage is it basically tough *itty for them, can they continue to persue this? They had thier chance to supply it when asked for and their 30 days were up on the 26th April for goodness sake!!!!!!!!!!! Can I still maintain that I am not liable as they did not comply within the lawful specified time period and have therefore committed an offence or will I have to continue paying like nothing has happened? They have been such complete and utter pigs it will kill me to have to bow out now and start paying them again - I was even getting ready to demand all payments made back so angry am I with them!!!!!!! Please, one desperate person here so all help very much appreciated. For more info on the background please take alook at my thread british gas loan charges. Ta Lynne