TaylorMade vs MBNA

[TaylorMade]

I've given a fairly hefty intro of myself on the HSBC thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=80725#post80725

 

I figure that starting into two at once (with possiblilties of ending in court) is probably not a good idea - but I figure there's no harm in getting the statements and starting to put my numbers together?

 

Reading your stories has been inspirational - I have no idea what situation I would be in now if I had not had the money troubles over the past decade, and I feel a very large part of that trouble is down to HSBC and MBNA.

 

Every so often in supermarkets and motorway services I am approached by some lovely ladies trying to talk me into getting and MBNA card. I stand and talk to them for as long as I can, telling them just how much trouble I've had and the dirty tricks the company uses to increase your debt to them. A very plesant way of passing the time (talking to a lovely lady) and stopping them chasing other 'victims'

[fivelaws]

I wish you'd been in the motorway services when I got talked into an RBS Mastercard. Lovely lady that she was, it was still a big mistake!

 

Good luck!

[TaylorMade]

While sorting through boxes in the loft I've found my MBNA statements from the end of 1997 up to July 2000 - a bit of work on the spreadsheet tells me that for this period alone I've paid £555 in Late Charges and Over Limit Fees (at £15 or £18 a time) and about £110 in interest on those charges

 

I've probably not found the box for 2000 onwards, but I think it might be worth kick-starting a Data Request letter while I'm waiting to make progress with HSBA. (I was holding off to get 1 result under my belt before branching out, but what the heck....)

 

Time to have a read around and see if there are any specific pitfalls with MBNA, and how the rest of you have done with them

[TaylorMade]

Date Access letter in the post today. I didn't put any time restrictions on the data I want - simply 'all info for my account'. Let's see what they come back with.

[Wigan Warrior]

Good Luck Mate,

 

MBNA seem to capitulate very quickly now, as long as you follow the process. Get your charges, add them up (They will even calculate the interest for you), send the prelim letter and give Gareth Tunnicliffe a ring about 10 days later - 01244 672628. They usually offer you a full settlement as long as you make sure you ask for the interest, otherwise they just offer you the charges amount. My charges totalled £1500, which they offered, I told them it would not resolve my issue due to the interest on the charges and they got back to me within an hours offering charges plus interest - £2692

 

Warrior

[TaylorMade]

Following my S.A.R. I've had a reply from Rachel Claridge (Assistant Vice President) which is 'interesting' to say the least

 

Here is a section from my super-fast IMMEDIATE response:

 

Thank you for you letter dated 22nd September which I received today. There is much to say (especially about the date you give regarding registering as a default), but I want to get an immediate response to you regarding 3 points:-

 

1. You say that the £10 cheque is not needed, and is enclosed. There were no enclosures with your letter.

2. Your ‘Enc:’ line on the letter reads “list of charges”. There were NO enclosures with your letter.

3. You say that you have credited my account with £110 as a gesture of goodwill. I have no active account with your company (to my knowledge). Regardless of this, such an offer would not be acceptable as full and final settlement of this matter.

 

If you could address these matters, then we can engage in a meaningful dialogue regarding the situation.

 

Her letter has a bit of waffle about terms and conditions of agreement, etc, and an attempt to make me sorry for them regarding the 'losses' suffered by over-lending to me - but it does say that my account was late with payments on 39 occasions (in the 6-year period) - so that sounds like a lot of money without looking at compound interest.

 

Any new advice is always welcome. It looks like a few people are getting good settlements over the phone --- interesting

[TaylorMade]

No response to my last letter, and the 40-days (my timetable) was up on Monday. I rang them to explain the current state, and they claimed no knowledge of my last letter. They promised to get someone to ring me during that afternoon, but no call yesterday or today.

 

I've seen Paul Miney's name on a couple of other threads (and the same phone number as I rang yesterday), so should I ask for him by name or one of the two names I was given in my letter - Rachel Claridge, and Gavin Theobald?

 

When I do get through to someone who will calculate charges and interest, I'll take the line "I know that up to July 2000 there were charges of £550 (plus interest), but I can't find the details from then on - could you add them up for me and tell me the compound interest please?""

 

I really hope I get one of these 'quick phone agreements' - it would help out with so many other things *fingers crossed*

[Glenn UK]

TM

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxx

Got £421 in charges back along with £141.91 in compound interest at a rate of 16.9% on those charges from the date they occurred. I'm not sure that this answers your question Glenn.

 

 

i think it does

 

you could have got back

 

charges £421

Interest paid £141.91

 

Plus interest at the cash advance rate of 22.4% compounded from the time each cost was imposed until they settled.

 

I asked for charges older than 6 years to be included too, in my case not a lot but it is worth it when the interest I charged them is added to it.

 

Depending on how old your charges were this could have increased your claim significantly.

 

You could also have recovered your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) fee and if you wanted to like me you could have charged them for the costs of writing letters and postage too.

 

My claim went from £832 to £1750 (even then i think i made a small mistake and a loss of about a £100) when I included the elements outlined above.

 

Please tell others that if they claim to prepare a schedule of exactly what they're entitled too and write it out so they know what the values should be before they speak to MBNA.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

Have a think about what you are doing before ringing them, you want to make sure you get your full entitlement. the quote above is from a post where the claimant missed out because they weren't sure.

 

Check out my thread from the link in my signature before contacting them by phone it could make a big difference to your claim.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[TaylorMade]

Thanks for that Glenn - I've checked your thread, and still plan to take the line I mentioned a couple of posts ago (then checking what they are offering, if they offer anything).

 

I was just about to ring them this afternoon and something prompted me to check the forum first - and there was your warning I'll get everything printed out and beside me before I ring

 

Were there any particular buzz-words that are especially effective with MBNA? Or is it just the facts that they can't charge punitive amounts, and that the fact their charges were unlawful has only just been brought to my attention, etc, etc.

[Glenn UK]

NO particular buzzwords, just a basic understanding of the whys and wherefores of my claim.

 

EG why i was entitled to ask for charges further back than six years, why i was entitled to ask for contractual interest, etc.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[TaylorMade]

Tried the phonecall last Monday. Promised a call back. Nobody rang.

 

I kindly gave them the week. [OK - couldn't get back in touch during office hours, and decided Friday 13th was not the best time ]

 

Got through today to another person who was promising to get someone to ring, so I told him the whole story about last week, and tried passing Paul Miney's name. He assured me that someone would today - but they waited until I walked into the building I work in (which has lousy mobile reception) and ended up leaving a message saying they were sending out what they missed sending out in the first place

 

I quickly rang 'Andrea' back, and it turned out she had in her hands my £10 cheque and the transaction list (which was supposed to be in their last letter to me). She promised that they were going in the post today. I mentioned that I'd heard Mr Miney and others were sending lists with compound interest calculated, but a quick check showed that this was not in the information she had. I wasn't going to hold things up by adding requests now, so I told her to send what she had and we'd go from there.

 

She also mentioned the £110 goodwill gesture, and I was able to tell her directly that since I don't know what the numbers add up to (and I do know there was £550 take up to July 2000) then I would only accept such offers as steps towards a final settlement - so she may as well hang onto it.

 

I hope whoever I'm working with there believes in quick (financially rewarding) fixes. I'm 3 days from payday and about to raid the dogs money-box for petrol money to get to work

[TaylorMade]

Good to Andrea's word, an envelope arrived in today's post with my £10 cheque and a list of Overlimit Charges and Late Fee Charges from 2/09/2000 up to 18/11/2002. The total of these is £282.00, which is an interesting £110.00 over the OFT suggested tarriff.

 

So now I know where the 'goodwill' offer came from

 

Adding these figures into my spreadsheet I get a total of charges from my first records in 1997 as £819.00

 

Using the interest calculation on Vamp's spreadsheet, and defaulting August 2000's interest and balance figure for September 2000 through to May 2003 (when they passed me on to debt collection) I get an interest figure of £458.10. I'm sure that compound interest would be even more generous.

 

Out of time for tonight, but I think I need to track down the compound calculations and pick Glenn's brains for a couple of things. I'll get back to this later.

[TaylorMade]

I'm out of the area for a week or so, but I'd like to give MBNA something to be working on. I've taken the standard LBA (and re-done my calculations on charges ), then changed the middle section of the letter to read:

 

I calculate that you have taken £837.00 plus compound contractual interest for the sums which you have taken. I’m in the process of calculating how much this interest amounts to, but I understand that you can carry out these calculations quickly and easily.

 

The above figure includes the value of £555.00 which I have recorded on paper statements, and enclose a transactional list for your convenience. This value and it’s resultant interest is reclaimable because under section 32 of the limitations act provision is made to deal with the deliberate concealment of the true costs of charges laid against me.

 

Additionally, you managed my account in such a way that a default notice against my credit record records a date of ??/??/2003. Other creditors – who I have treat in an exact same manner as yourselves – have correctly recorded such notices as 31/10/2000. This original default in the latter half of 2000 occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you, or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you amendment of the date of the default entry to correctly indicate my financial problems at the end of 2000. Using RBS Advanta (now MINT) as a model, this would be a date of 31st October 2000.

 

I require repayment in full of this money and amendment of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

 

I'd really like to print this off and take it with me when I leave tomorrow lunchtime, so any quick comments would be appreciated. I'm trying to let them see that I know what I'm doing, but also trying to get them to do the interest work (since some people have found them MORE generous that our own calculations).

 

Cheers!

[TaylorMade]

I managed to find the correct date (??/??,etc) and get this printed and brought with me. I'm typing this from a cyber-cafe in keswick

 

If nobody comes up with any good reasons NOT to send this, then I'll visit the Post Office tomorrow to send it off.

[Glenn UK]

As an observation they are not obliged to prove the amount you are claiming.

 

If they do provide it thats good for you but you cannot rely on it.

 

Personally i would adopt a methodology which seemed reasonable and estimate the value of interest you have paid as a result of your charges,

 

Then i would work out what i was going to charge them by way of contractual interest.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

 

PS if we are going to brag about where we are typing our respective posts from I'm in my office in Dubai right now and am just thinking of finishing for the day and going and getting beer. before flying home early tomorrow morning.

[redsue]

woo, glennuk - get you - I'm in gloomy st helens, oopp north - sorry to hijack

[TaylorMade]

Not bragging - just highlighting the fact I'm away from my computer and information, and don't want to delay this by ANOTHER week

 

Appreciate the comment, but for speed I think I'll post this off. It identifies the definition of what I want, even though it can't state the VALUE.

 

We'll see what they think of it. (Lulled into a false sense of security by other posts who have had MBNA do everything for them and then pay up )

[TaylorMade]

My LBA got off in the post last week (receieved by them 3rd November), and I've just had a letter from Gavin Theobald dated 8th November stating "Further to our previous letter, please find enclosed a cheque to the value of £120.00 as previously agreed".

 

This is their offer of £110 plus my £10 cheque (which the had previously returned to me ).

 

I'm banging him back a quick reply saying I'm "happy to accept your cheque as an interim payment towards the final refund of the unlawful charges (and interest on those charges) that were placed against my account over a number of years."

 

There's no problem in banking this cheque? Is there??

[TaylorMade]

Just received a follow-up on my last letter - looks like another fob off. Reference to 'charges detailed in the agreement' and 'terms & conditions'. However they've sent another cheque for £164.40 which represents:

 

the full fees you have incurred since your account was opened, plus interest charges at the rate of 8% per annum applied between 2 November 2000 (the date the first fee was applied) to 31 May 2003 (when your account defaulted).

 

and also:

 

I reiterate that we will not be removing the default from your credit file. The information we supply to the Credit Reference Agencies must be factual; the fact that you have failed to maintain contractual payments resulted in your account defaulting, it was not due to the application of fees.

 

I'm now looking to reply with the obvious (take it as part payment), and put together a proper set of information for file court papers. For that I'll the best interest calculator around at the moment. Any quick pointers to the best available?

 

The original standard one I found when I joined gives me £464 on my full penalty charges of £837 from December 1997, but has anyone done the 'compound contractual interest' calculations, and what spreadsheet did you use?

 

Thanks in advance. I think they're messing about because I can't dedicate the time to chase this properly - but I've got almost 2 weeks off work over Christmas, so I'm getting my head down and working on this and HSBC.

[iwannabedebtfree]

TaylorMade i used Vamps spreadsheet for the compounded interest, but if you cant find it PM me your email address and i will send it as an attachment. I find it interesting that you decided not to charge interest between the period when the DCA was chasing you on behalf of MBNA.

 

I have been in an agreement to pay since july 2005 but im still chasing interest until the date of settlement, my thought (maybe a lil off!) is that they took money off me unlawfully, and lawfully i am able to charge them interest until they pay it back. I am expecting them to turn round and say we are bumping on the interest you didnt pay for the last year but i will take further action and thats for another day!

 

MBNA like to play games, but if they know you are serious and are willing to go to court to get an judgement they will settle, i did read some get early settlements others have to fill in the N1, but keep up the pressure, and do ensure as Glenn says that you work out your own interest first as otherwise if they know you havent worked it out, they could fob you off with a lesser figure thinking you dont know what you are entitled to.

 

Adi

[TaylorMade]

I've got a combination of statements and 'charge values':

 

I've got actual statements up to 2000 and a list of Overlimit Charges and Late Fee Charges from 2/09/2000 up to 18/11/2002.

 

Adding these figures into my spreadsheet I get a total of charges from my first records in 1997 as £819.00

 

Using the interest calculation on Vamp's spreadsheet, and defaulting August 2000's interest and balance figure for September 2000 through to May 2003 (when they passed me on to debt collection) I get an interest figure of £458.10. I'm sure that compound interest would be even more generous.

 

I'll PM you my e-mail address and if the version of the spreadsheet YOU are looking at can handle this mis-match of data then I'd be grateful for a copy.

 

Hope everyone bothered by MBNA had a good Christmas and are looking forward to a Happy (and prosperous) New Year.

[TaylorMade]

OK - putting together a response to that last letter from MBNA. Still not sorted on the 'interest' side (due to a mishmash of data), but that's not important as far as this letter response is concerned.

 

Please have a look and see if I've dropped any clangers

 

Dear Mr Johnson

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: {10-digit account code}

 

Thank you for you letter dated 7th December. I will continue to use the above account number in correspondence with you, as I’ve just noticed that every letter from yourselves has been headed with a different account number. Your letter gave the account as {16-digit account code}, but your company has shown entirely different account numbers on your letters of 8th November and 20th October. This does little to encourage confidence in your ability to give complete and accurate information regarding the history of my account.

 

You claim that your charges are set at a uniform level to help cover your costs, but (as I’ve only recently found out) your are only lawfully allowed to set charges to recover the actual costs of processes carried out. If you can provide me a breakdown of what these costs are, and can therefore demonstrate that the charges carry no ‘punitive’ element, then I may consider withdrawing my requests.

 

I have received your cheque for £164.40, but you claim in your letter that this (along with the previous £110.00) represents “the full fees you have incurred since your account was opened, plus interest charges at the rate of 8% per annum applied between 2 November 2000 [the date the first fee was applied] to 31 May 2003 [when your account defaulted]”.

 

This response is curious, as I have documented evidence of £837.00 of charges going back to the first charge on 1st December 1997. I can calculate the cumulative interest on the statements I do have, but as you unilaterally decided to ignore my ‘Subject Access Request’ for information and instead sent me a list of charges, I will need to estimate the interest you applied to my account during the final 2½ years up to May 2003.

 

I also dispute that my account defaulted in May 2003 when it was passed to Intrum Justitia. From my initial discussions with you through the C.C.C.S in July/August 2000 and my Debt Management Plan starting in September 2000, it was obvious that I was unable to finance my debt – at that stage I considered myself ‘in default’. RBS Advanta considered this to be the case, so what state did your company consider my account to be in during the period up to May 2003?

 

I am happy to accept your cheque as an interim payment towards the final refund of the unlawful charges (and interest on those charges) that were placed against my account over a number of years. This sum of £284.40 will of course be deducted from the final value that is agreed upon.

[TaylorMade]

No response to my last post, so I'll assume it's OK. There was a wonderful paragraph from 'iwanttobedebtfree' that read:

 

I understand under the implied principle of mutuality and reciprocity within contract law that it would be fair to charge contractual interest compounded at a rate of 27.9%. If you can provide me with an actual figure and are able to show how you came to that figure I will accept that figure.

I may slip a version of this in after the paragraph where I mention estimating the interest.

If I hear nothing bad from any of you, then I'll be posting this on Monday.

[TaylorMade]

I've added a couple of extra paragraphs, but I'm ready to go. I put in the paragraph from iwanttobedebt free, and added the following just before the 'interim payment' area at the end:

 

The fact that this default was withheld for this period of time has had significant effect on the rest of my financial dealings – leading to a higher rate mortgage for the re-financing of my house, and the inability to get a small personal loan before Christmas from my preferred lenders. These extra costs and the implications of your business practices in them will be raised if this is taken to court.

 

It is unfortunate that the full effects of your business techniques on family life and relationships cannot be proved in a court of law, otherwise the breakdown of my marriage and my wife’s increased illness and depression would also be highlighted.

 

I finish the letter off with:

 

As per my letter of 27th October, I also still require the date of my ‘default’ to be amended back to the true date on or around 31st October 2000.

 

I trust we can quickly conclude this matter as I am currently preparing the paperwork to take this to court.

 

Let's see what he has to say about that.

[iwannabedebtfree]

Taylormade, surely ur not suggesting the default caused you damage and distress???? surely MBNA did not submit an incorrect notice of default as it contained an incorrect figure as the default contained penalty charges?? if so check out data protection act 1998 sections 13 and 14....