Hi everyone - I thought I'd type this up here in the HSBC area and then make a reference to it in the MBNA section (to save anyone reading it twice )

In the late '90s I hit a debt spiral - long term sick wife having her benefits stopped (unjustly - as we proved). A disasterous house move. Trying to run a house on 1 wage. Other things regarding medical problems I will keep quite about until I know you better Anyway during 2000 I found out about the C.C.C.S, and we tried to take hold of my ever increasing problem.

Of the 3 big problems - RBS Advanta actually treated me very well, however MBNA and HSBC figured that I was a worker, would probably always be a worker, and tried to (in my oppinion) screw me for everything they could get away with. The continued charging me excess fees and interest for years - and (after learning from questioning RBS) when I asked them to pass my accounts to the debt collectors so that the interest would stop they both claimed that they had to "go through all the correct processes"

Late in 2001 I managed to down-size the house - and although I wouldn't have been able to GET a decent mortgage I was able to convince my current lender to give me a mortgage so that they could get back the higher-value I already owed them. *Whew!!*

By 2004 - with the rediculously low price I'd paid for the house and the increase in house values, I figured I could get the mortgage increased and finally 'pay off' the outstanding debt that I had been managing via the CCCS. This is when I found I had a dirty black mark on my credit history in 2002 AND 2003 It turns out that that was part of their processes as each in turn handed the accounts over to their respective debt collection agencies.

I ended up having to get a financial advisor that I'd done some work for to find me someone who WOULD lend to me - and have a new mortgage as of last year which let me get rid of my baggage. Hopefully I am NOW rebuilding my credit history.

Wanting to find out more about the 2002/03 situation I asked HSBC for information regarding the closure of my accound and the dealings with the CCCS. I have in front of me their copies of MY letter detailing my problems and my signing up with the CCCS (dated 26th July 2000) and their copy of the CCCS letter regarding my debt management pland (dated 7th August 2000). I also have a random statement from my records showing my overdraft of £520 getting an unauthorised overdraft fee of £27.50 and interest of £11.13 for December 2001. (An MBNA statement for the same month shows FAR worse)

I 'probably' have all my paper statements - but they are not packed in a very user friendly way. So I'm thinking about starting with the initial letter and £10 cheque to see what I get back. Apart from making sure I have all available statements, I'd be interested in any manual interventions that they come up with. This will then give me my starting point for investigation.

The paper statements I do have will go back much further than the 6-year bank shredding limit - so I'll be keeping an eye on the other threads regarding older claims I'm sure a large part of the trouble I ended up in date from 1995-99.

If anything I've said so far raises any warning bells, please give me a shout. I am still struggling to make ends meet - I even had my debit card withdrawn for the best part of a year (just got it back in February) so I spent most of last year dealing entirely in cash - awkward or what? So although any financial return would be greatly appreciated I feel strongly about the principles of what went on during this past decade.

I'm not worried about how far this might go. Following another disaster (or actually part of a disaster I've already mentioned) I had the pleasure of taking a 'wide boy' window installation firm to small claims court. The tried bullying, time wasting, and last minute deals - but I dragged him before a judge and made him look foolish. (No!!! - the window guy, not the judge )

Welcome to the forum.

You are right to ask for records of manual interventions, you might need this information later, my guess is that there will be no records of manual intervention as this form of mugging is electronic.

I wish you all the best with your claim, please keep us posted.

Crusher:D

WOW! That's some story.

Good luck. I'll be watching with interest.

OC

OK - here we go! I've read around (probably not half as much as I should), and feeling the clock ticking away I'm starting of with this to HSBC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam

BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx

MASTERCARD / VISA COMBINED ACCOUNT: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

..............................................................xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my bank account and my Midland/HSBC credit cards since the account was opened and the cards were issued. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for all accounts will be acceptable.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

Previous addresses: Last Address...................... Other known address

If there is any further specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that at least one of the above address is the one which you normally used to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

Yours faithfully,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three obvious questions spring to mind:-

1) Looking at other's experience, the local branch seems to be better than the Leeds address. Any advice?

2) Is there any problem lumping the card(s) in with the bank account? I would expect the recipient to send copies of my letter wherever it is needed.

3) I've removed the 6-year limitation after reading questions as to this being their liability for repaying illegally captured money, or their lightlyhood of still holding incriminating evidence past the date when the NEED to keep it. Any comments on that?

For some strange reason I seem to have a large number (though I coudn't say all) of my bank statements back to 1995 June 2000 makes interesting reading, it has 8 items paid into my account with the description Correction - unpaid item chq" then finishes off with a "Total Charges to 31st May 2000 - £27.50" which took me £21 past my agreed overdraft limit of £600.

So the follow-on question is, if the 6-year IS a limit then when does the clock stop??? This question will become important when I try to use the spreadsheet to calculate the amounts - what date do I use for the 1st item in the spreadsheet?

Thanks in advance. I'll see what response I get then post my letter tomorrow evening or Friday morning.

OK - no thoughts or comments, I'll get this on a 'recorded delivery' tomorrow to the branch where my account used to be set up.

Any last minute thougts, now would be a good time.

Hello Mate, I have taken a look.

Not too sure if you can rightfully reclaim the tenner, this is the fee allowed for supplying the information. Best stick to exactly what you can claim.

Send it into your branch if you so wish, it will end up in the same place anyway.

The court will expect you to lump the stuff together, to keep costs down to a minimum (but keep below the £5000 ex interest limit though if you can)

Unless you want a bit of a stressful time I would stick to the 6 years for now. Have a go at the earlier stuff if you feel brave later!

(Of course it's up to you)

Crusher:-D

Thanks for that

If the tenner you're talking about is

and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

... then I'm pretty sure that's straight out of the template letter. As I read it I though it meant - "if you've made me take you to court because of your illegal actions then I'm going to get back the money you charged me to find out how much YOU ripped ME off by."

Heading for the printer, and posting to the local branch. 40-day countdown (probably from Monday) here we come.

All the best with your claim, keep us posted, it will work.

I have been at mine for over a month now.

Patience is a virtue!

(but it does seem that they seem to be paying out more, and more quickly too, I hope this is true in your case.)

Crusher:D

Just back from the post office - DPA is on it's way

I've started a nice little spreadsheet on my computer at home that I'll use to record all letters, interactions, and most of all deadlines (with a nice little day-by-day countdown to the next stage )

OK - Here's hoping that the banking fraternity don't pull anything out of the hat before I get a chance to get something back.

 

OK - Here's hoping that the banking fraternity don't pull anything out of the hat before I get a chance to get something back.

No rabbits, but plenty of money!!!

DPA signed for at the local branch (72-hours before I can print the proof of delivery). I'm guessing that this is the start of the 40-day countdown.

From reading around I will expect a couple of rubbish letters saying there is nothing of interest and I can't claim for anything anyway - which I will ignore. Biding my time for about a month and then ring to remind them that they are running out of time for the DPA.

If there are any variations on this theme (or dirty tricks) then feel free (anybody) to give me a shout.

It should be the normal rubbish letters as usual.

These seems to have been a couple of near offers recently though... you might strike it lucky.

The statements should come through fairly quickly though, mine did.

Your 40 days have started, lets hope you don't need them all!

Keep us posted

Crusher:-D

It should be the normal rubbish letters as usual.

Oddly enough, no letters yet. I arrived home today to find statements from June 2000 until March 2002. I'll need to check my records and find if this is when they passed my current account to the debt collectors.

Interestingly - no comments or response regarding the 'manual intervention'. I'd have thought that getting rid of an account and passing it on would count, and have some paperwork related to it However my request letter covered 'bank account and card accounts' - so there may well be things to come. Still 21 days left on the Data Protection Act timetable.

Time to get the spreadsheet and start calculating. Lots of pages with single £27.50 charges on, along with my agreed payment via CCCS of £17 - how quickly was that going to get paid off?

I know there's a slot at the top for 'estimated previous charges' (or some such wording) - I'm pretty sure this is massive, as 2000 is the year I started fixing things (and only as far as I can go back with the 6-year limit). Is it worth me making an educated guess from my paper statements?

Anyone with specific pointers regarding what I've said - give me a shout

Just got the 'rest' of my HSBC statements up to August 2002 when they passed the account on to the debt collectors.

From September 2000 when I shouted HELP and started paying the CCCS arranged amount of £17.50 per month up until their closing of my account in August 2002 they managed to increase my debt from £478 to £712 :mad: Where is the 'care for the customers' in that? :-?

The sum total of charges from what they sent was £440. If I leave the 'estimated previous charges' at £0 then the interest comes out at £65 but if I put in a lump (£1000) this figure jumps to £225. I think I need to dig out all my paper versions and see if I can get a reasonable estimate.

Which brings us on to - claiming for unlawful charges past the 6-year limit. Any recent news on that side (that I've missed) ?

Still no word on the HSBC credit cards that I included in my request letter - should I check it's been passed on to the CC data manager?

Hi,I might be wrong but I believe it is illegal for them to pass you on to a debt collection agency when there are queries with the account;) .

That's interesting. My HSBC Current Account overdraught was passed to Metropolitan Collection Services Ltd, my HSBC Card Account balances passed to Intrum Justitia, and my MBNA balance passed to Direct Legal & Collections. The hand-overs of these accounts caused extra damage to my credit history that I am [beginLanguageClean] not very happy about [endLanguageClean]

I don't think there were any 'queries' with my account - I just wasn't able to pay them enough money

Following my calculations on the period June 2000 - July 2002 (when my account was passed / sold to Metropolitan Collection Services Ltd) I have come up with a claim figure:

£440.00 charges plus £248.06 interest (based on a cumulative penalties charged figure of £600). I've used that cumulative figure on account of my paper records for the previous 3 months (Feb / March / April 2000) have a total penalty charge of almost £400.

Has there been any serious success on claims for charges from over 6 years? I know that the banks won't provide statements, but if you've got them yourself then... an unlawful charge is an unlawful charge.

A lot of the damage that was done to my finance is in the few years preceeding 2000. My paperwork is not in a readily useable order, but I do have an awful lot of old statements. So - has anybody tried going back past the glass-'tough luck'-sign?

[Yes - I've read Bankfodder's FAQ item, but I think I need to get my 1st claim on what they provided in first, and maybe re-visit them if/when they pay up]

I've set myself a spreadsheet that will act as my calendar and action recording journal. By setting dates when I carry out actions, and numbers of days until 'something else' can take place, I get myself a handy little countdown.

When I knew my SAR had been received I set the 40 day countdown with a test that when it got below 12 days left it "might be an idea to give a ring".

15th - rang contact centre - not able to tell why my bank statements arrived but there is no sign of my Combined Credit Cards statements. Suggests I visit the branch I sent the request to. [Not good - i work over 20-miles away from this 'local' branch]

19th - rang contact centre during bank opening hours - they did try to put me through to the branch, but it was "very busy". This person at least suggested that I might visit ANY branch (in person) to try and find out more.

21st - found myself in Sunderland city centre, so visited the main branch. A very nice lady named Fiona did the ringing around to find the correct contact and explained the problem (based on my copy letter which I put in front of her). She highlighted the time-critical nature (as per the description of obligations within the letter) and pointed out that we were now 9 days from the failure date. This call gave us the following information:

1) My letter (which arrived 20th June) was not scanned onto their documents system until the 30th.

2) The contact couldn't confirm that the work was currently being carried out for me. As this is the case, they are re-requesting the action internally. [i could end up with 2 copies ]

3) There is a 10-working-day minimum timescale on this job - the reason being that the information is held on micro-fische. [No 'balking' or objections to the idea of retrieving it from this medium]

In the interests of reasonableness and an easy life - I've added an extra line to my calendar spreadsheet and given it a 14 day countdown. It's only 5 days over my original planned timetable, and it puts a point in my 'reasonable behaviour' score.

The reason I want ALL the information is that I don't think I'm anywhere near the magic £5000 mark - so it makes sense to make a single claim against HSBC for whatever the sum total is.

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated, and if this helps some other readers who have had objections to their requests due to 'micro-fische' then all the better.

I've set myself a spreadsheet that will act as my calendar and action recording journal. By setting dates when I carry out actions, and numbers of days until 'something else' can take place, I get myself a handy little countdown.

Good idea, I like that.

3) There is a 10-working-day minimum timescale on this job - the reason being that the information is held on micro-fische. [No 'balking' or objections to the idea of retrieving it from this medium]

Micro fische? Oh no, not HSBC as well!

The micro"fishy" issue has cropped up with another bank, it seems to be used as a great delaying tactic. I have been away for a few days but I have not seen this mentioned as yet with HSBC.

Sounds you have your claim very well organised, and you have read and prepared well.

However it does seem unusual that they are refering to this rather than the electronic records.

Crusher

Micro fische? Oh no, not HSBC as well!

 

The micro"fishy" issue has cropped up with another bank, it seems to be used as a great delaying tactic.

I've seen some of the others (in the HSBC section) having been told they can't get the information because of the fische. Needless to say, I wasn't going to let them use that as an excuse, but I didn't mind giving them the extra 5 days.

If (while I'm doing this) I can make my spreadsheet more 'generic' then I'm more than happy to share. Unfortunately at the moment it's a 'hands-on' spreadsheet where you need to be comfortable in Excel to use it.

I am really terrible at excell!

I am a little sceptical about the claim that records are held on fishe only, it is all electronically stored, normally you can access it on internet banking.

Keep us posted!

:grin:

OK - the credit card statements are coming in bit-by-bit. Unable to open the front door on Wednesday due to pile of envelopes behind it

Can anyone say why I've had 46 statements - each with their own envelope and covering letter? COST anyone???

Still a lot to come... The shame of it is that there are no CHARGES on the statements I've got - just loads of interest. In the 31 months between September 2000 and February 2003 I managed to reduce my £3700 debt by almost £200 I think I need to start another thread about the moral legality of 'service' to a customer in trouble.

In the 31 months between September 2000 and February 2003 I managed to reduce my £3700 debt by almost £200 I think I need to start another thread about the moral legality of 'service' to a customer in trouble.

yep, this is very dodgy.

The minimum payments are just that... just enough to keep milking off the money from you.....

OK - the credit card statements are coming in bit-by-bit.....

Still a lot to come...

No further postman visits since I posted this. I have been sent statements for September 2000 -> March 2002, August 2002 -> February 2003, and April 2005 -> November 2005 (when I used remortgaging to pay off the balance).

It sounds like time for a 'Failure to fulfill data request' letter. I'm off to the templates now to have a look, but any advice is appreciated - I don't want to hold the claim up on the current account, but also don't want 2 sets of fees if I have stuff to claim on the credit card accounts.

I'm busy compiling a letter from the templates on the 'senario 2' basis - past the 40 day deadline. The specifics I plan to use are the gaps in the dates from my previous post, and the fact that both bank and CC debt was passed on to 3rd parties (which - to my mind - needed a little manual intervention ).

Anything I need to watch out for at this stage? Anybody been here before and know the implications - are they messing me about, or delaying me??? Advice appreciated.

I'm looking to do the preparitory work now, and finish the job tomorrow night - so any ideas you come up with can be added. [i know - I should just trust myself, but this is all new to me]