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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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Ladybette vs LloydsTsb


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Hello Everyone!

 

I've been a bit of a lurker on here for a while and have learnt loads from everybody in preparation for my own 'fight' so thanks everyone!

I thought I'd start a thread as advised so I don't have to explain everything each time I have a question.

So, here it is..I've done the easy bit, y'know.. the writing off to the bank, working out the charges (just over £4000) etc and I'm now at the stage where nothing more can be done via MCOL. My claim has been acknowledged and they are intending to defend. So I'm just waiting now for the notice of transfer (I'm in south east London so I assume it'll be Croydon court) I've read that alot of courts don't now give out the AQ but I guess I have to wait and see what arrives.

I thought it may be a good idea to prepare a court bundle x 1 so that I have some understanding of what it all says and some feeling of control, I can then just photocopy it all if it gets to that stage but if they settle I haven't wasted lots of time, money and ink (not to mention the trees!) preparing it all x 3.

I've been very careful to do everything step by step on the advice from people on here and on the MSE forum so if anyone wants to add their tuppence, please feel free! I'm feeling very relaxed about it all at the moment but I know that'll change the longer it all takes and the further it goes, I'll be a nervous wreck if it gets to court!:)

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Ok, here's a couple of questions if anyone can help?

As I look through this site, I find useful links to things which I feel would benefit my court bundle, for instance a link to some lloyds t&c's stating breach of contract or a bbc news report stating charges only cost banks a few quid. Would I have to change the witness statement to include reference to these or do I just include them and write it on the list? (can't remember if the list has a name, the checklist of letters, items etc)

 

Secondly, LLoyds acknowledged on MCOL on 13/06/07 and then the next day it said defence. I still have not received the notice of transfer to my local court or anything else. How long does it take?, obviously its only been a few days but the other letters came immediately.Would it be worth giving MCOL a ring? The 28 days is up on monday 2nd July but I don't think this still applies.

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Ok, Finally I received the notice of transfer yesterday to Lambeth court surprisingly, hoped it would be croydon!

When I filed through MCOL I didn't know that I needed to send them a copy of the spreadsheet so I'm going to send a copy now, Do I just ask Lambeth to attach it to my file or do I need to word it in a particular way? And do I just send the spreadsheet or do I need to attach anything else? I assume I need to send an updated copy to SC&M too.

 

Can anyone please advise? or point me to a thread that can?

 

Also, I've realised that somehow I managed to work out the interest wrongly and so my initial claim is less than the updated spreadsheet, I know I can't accept anything more that the charges anyway unless it goes to court but will it be a problem if the interest has increased the total when I send my updated spreadsheet in?

 

To work out my daily rate is amount of charges x 0.00022 = £3637 x 0.00022 = 0.80 is this correct? seems too high!

Does the spreadsheet work it out automatically at this rate or do I have to enter the rate somewhere?

 

Lots of thanks to whoever can answer!

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Yep, the daily rate of interest is just £3637 (your charges I assume) x 0.00022 = 0.80 or just 80p a day..A sight less than the banks commercial rates :mad:

You'll find the spreadsheet here:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

 

I used the England - Simple Excel version to calculate my charges. That one adds up the interest for you. I'm no whizz at spreadsheets..far from it :confused: , but I managed to fathom it out :D

 

Shameless self publicity time now...Give Me scales a click if you think I've helped ;)

 

Cheers

 

McIavelli (I'm not that devious really)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by littlep viewpost.gif

Filled in Claim form on MCOL – I used Money Saving Expert for guidance filling in the form and I’m worried I’ve messed up.

 

This is what I put;

  • Between 08/09/03 and 7/05/05 the defendant debited numerous charges from the Claimants account.

  • The charges are an unfair penalty under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, because they are a disproportionately high sum in compensation compared to the cost of the purported breach.

  • Under the law of penalties, the charges are an unlawful ‘extravagant’ penalty.

  • Under the County Courts Act, the claimant is entitled to interest of 8% per annum from the date they were deprived of the money. This totals £63.13 accruing at the daily rate of 0.021% until judgment or payment.

p

 

 

This is also what I did and now am worried that I need to amend my claim for being too vague. I have had my notice of transfer and a standard ( i think) 9 point defence and there is no mention of my poc being too vague. I've tried to call the court several times and it just rings out. Is it a case of "if in doubt, amend"? or will that work against me? Would it be better to amend now or wait and see if the court requests more info?

 

I also wonder if the 0.021 is right? I keep reading to multiply your charges by 0.00022 to get a daily rate, is this the same thing?

I did my charges on the calculator on MSE originally to send claim etc and then have just used a spreadsheet on CAG to smarten it up and the charges total is the same but the interest is alot different, normal difference or another reason to amend?

I'm getting stressed now as I thought following the steps on MSE meant I was doing it all right, now I'm not so sure! Any advice would be welcome.

 

Sorry, put this on the 'vague claims' thread, I think it should be here. At least I have an answer to the interest bit!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Right, an update. I didn't amend in the end on advice to wait as everything was accepted so I simply sent a schedule of charges to the court and [problem]. I'm still waiting on a court date and when to pay the £100 so I'll chase that up but today I have come hone from work to a letter from [problem] saying that that they are defending the proceedings on the grounds that 1)the fees I seek are properly incorporated into my contract with the bank and that 2) if I make payments when I have insufficient funds to cover them its a request for an overdraft and then I have to pay fees, no breach of contract blah, blah, flippin' blah. Those bits I get and they just irritate me because thats what the whole argument's about anyway.( and by the way, lloyds, if you bounce a payment then you are obviously NOT increasing the overdfaft in which case the charges shouldn't apply!)

The next bit though says I need to contact my branch manager within 14 days to review my account as "looking ahead, a situation which gives rise to dispute is not one the bank wishes to continue" and " a review may be useful to consider whether your current banking arrangements are the most appropriate for your needs"

 

I take this to mean that they are threatening to close my account, Am I right? Please can anyone advise whether I actually need to ring the branch manager or is this just a stalling technique? If they think I will cancel the claim on the back of this letter they have another think coming!:mad:

The letter says that they want confirmation that I have called the manager, I'm happy to call him but I need to be confident in what to say, I'm sure I read that they aren't allowed to close accounts, what do I say to them about that? I have a parachute account so its not the end of the world if they do. Has anyone else had this?

Thanks for any help!!

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First things first. They can't close your account whilst you are in dispute with them. I'm really sorry but I have to go out now so I don't have the time to look up the link that deals with this However I'm sure someone far wiser than I will be along shortly to help you out

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Hi

I wouldn't worry too much about the letter, it is a standard one that I have seen numerous times on here lately. It usually means that there is another letter following soon....:)

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Barty:)

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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Thankyou!

It really does help to have someones opinion, no matter how small the question! I can see how people are easily intimidated in to giving up, I'm usually quite strong minded and confident but this whole bank thing has me worried that any thing that I get wrong, even a spelling mistake, the judge will personally tell me to get lost!

Thanks again:)

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Well!

 

Good News!

 

I had a letter from [problem] today Which surprised me as I only had one the other day, Anyway, Its a long 2 page job with the first page marked "strictly without prejudice and confidential" and then it rabbits on giving me 5 points as to why Lloyds are defending my claim (its not a penalty and my claim is misconceived etc)

At the bottom theres a paragraph about Lloyds discussing the legal basis for claims with the OFT and then what I read as them giving in because of legal costs so when I turn to page 2 they're suddenly offering ALL my money back + interest + costs!

 

:o and :-D

 

I have questions though if someone legalish could advise please?

 

Like alot of people, I have some terms and conditions to agree to. Most I'm happy to but there are one or too that I don't think I should have to.

 

Can I just put a line through any and sign or will it affect the settlement?

 

I assume full and final settlement of the claim means this claim only? My claim only went to april so theres a bit more I'd like to try and get off them up to july in a 2nd claim.

 

also, they have listed what they are repaying me but then have got the toal wrong, do I just amend that in pen?

 

And Finally (possibly!) I haven't had notice to Track yet (if thats what its called?) and so haven't paid the £100, Lambeth is a bit bogged down, Lloyds have included this in the amount though, I should check with the court?

Any help gratefully received!! Thankyou :)

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congratulations. RING them to send out fresh settlement with AMENDMENT.yes, cross off what you don't like, sign + send off.when money is in your hands, tell court.breathe + go for next claim.please click my scales, if this has been helpful.thank you.

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]if my response has been of help to you, please click on my scales. thank you:)

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Well Everyone, The money has appeared in my account so I have officially Won !!

 

Could someone change my thread title or can I do that?

 

Anyway, Thanks to anyone who personally advised me and Thanks to the site in general as I picked up so much info just by reading everyone elses advise. I'll be visiting the donation section shortly!

 

Now I'm off to start a new claim so I'm sure there will be more questions soon.:D

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