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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Mrs Bwdski v Lloyds TSB


bwdski
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Hi guys...

 

Well the Mrs decided that she wanted her money back from Lloyds TSB.

So far we've sent the letter asking for statements for the past 6 years.

Didn't receive the statements but a list of charges (on the 38th day) and a letter saying:

 

I refer to your request for copies of statements on your account to enable you to reconcile your bank charges. Please find enclosed details of charges going back to the date you opened your account, or 1st September 2001, whichever date is most recent.

If there are no charges for a certain period then charging details will not be included.

 

You may now wish to proceed with your claim for reimbursement of charges but, if you do feel you need further statements. this will take longer to access our archived data. Please let me know by returning this letter in the attached pre-paid envelope and I will order them for you.

 

Under the terms of the Data Protection Act, we are allowed up to 40 days to fulfil your request.

 

The fee of £10 for this sevice has been taken accordingly.

 

Yours sincerely

 

~

 

Copy Statement Unit

 

The "signature" actually does look like that :)

 

Got a few questions about this.

 

At first I thought they were being helpful by supplying the charges and not the statements but, having read through this site, I've come to the conclusion that I might need the actual statements when we go to court.

 

Anyhow, we've sent the Request for repayment letter off today by recorded delivery giving them 14 days to reply.

 

My questions are:-

 

  • Is this a delay tactic to gain a further 40 days?
  • Do we have to pay a further £10 to get the actual statements?
  • If we ask for the actual statements will the request for repayment of charges we sent today still be valid?
  • Would it be best to ignore the envelope the supplied and sent it recorded delivery?

Sorry if this is a bit long winded and the questions are stupid ones.

Just want to make sure we get every base covered and are fully prepared when we have our day in court.

 

Trying to get hold of the T&C for September 2001 too if anyone can help.

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Just to add that we've sent off the Request for Repayment of Charges today by recorded Delivery and only asking for amount they've charged (approx £3,000) and not including the 8% ...

Was this a wise move?

Thinking of asking for the 8% interest in the letter before action

 

Thanks guys

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Hi

If you have internet banking you can print the statements off there if you need to.

You don't put the 8% interest on until you file your Court claim, so don't put it on the LBA.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Barty:)

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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Hi

If you have internet banking you can print the statements off there if you need to.

You don't put the 8% interest on until you file your Court claim, so don't put it on the LBA.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Barty:)

 

Thanks BARTY for your reply.

Does that mean that I need the statements then?

 

Any help is gratefully appreciated

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Hi

You may need them for the Court Bundle later down the line, but I'm not sure whether you would be able to use the list of charges they sent you instead. Anyone know whether you could use this in the bundle rather then statements??:confused:

Barty:)

  • Haha 1

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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Hi

You may need them for the Court Bundle later down the line, but I'm not sure whether you would be able to use the list of charges they sent you instead. Anyone know whether you could use this in the bundle rather then statements??:confused:

Barty:)

 

Thanks BARTY, trying to sort the court bundle out ASAP really, so that there's no rush later on and we forget something. We've gone over a lot of the charges (claimed & unclaimed) with a neon highlighter - does it matter?

 

When I reclaimed my own charges I didn't bother doing this - but don't want to mess it up for the Mrs :D

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In addition to the questions raised above:

  • Is this a delay tactic to gain a further 40 days?
  • Do we have to pay a further £10 to get the actual statements?
  • If we ask for the actual statements will the request for repayment of charges we sent today still be valid?
  • Would it be best to ignore the envelope the supplied and sent it recorded delivery?

Would it be an idea to also ask for the Terms & Conditions for 2001 when the account was opened?

 

Thanks for your advice guys

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bwdski, if you paid £10 for copy statements, this is what they should of sent you.

They may be trying to make life easier for themselves, but that is not your problem.

As Barty has said if you have internet banking, you can get your statements going back the six years.

If you don't have IB, go into your branch and sign up for it, it will be quicker than waiting a further 40 days:eek: .

As you have used their charges list IF they offer you payment, you can accept this with the understanding that you will put in another claim for any outstanding charges, so you are covered (do not worry):)

Use their envelope, and pay the difference for recorded delivery.

Hilighting does not matter, just a bit unsure about "We've gone over a lot of the charges (claimed & unclaimed)" what charges have you hilighted and unclaimed?

Yes ask for the terms and conditions, if this gets to court, it is now playing a part in your claim.

As you are at the start of your other halfs claim, it is early days, so keep asking the questions, and I'm sure we will get there.

Hope I have been of help:)

Happy claiming:D

read read and read some:p more

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LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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bwdski, if you paid £10 for copy statements, this is what they should of sent you.

They may be trying to make life easier for themselves, but that is not your problem.

As Barty has said if you have internet banking, you can get your statements going back the six years.

If you don't have IB, go into your branch and sign up for it, it will be quicker than waiting a further 40 days:eek: .

As you have used their charges list IF they offer you payment, you can accept this with the understanding that you will put in another claim for any outstanding charges, so you are covered (do not worry):)

Use their envelope, and pay the difference for recorded delivery.

Hilighting does not matter, just a bit unsure about "We've gone over a lot of the charges (claimed & unclaimed)" what charges have you hilighted and unclaimed?

Yes ask for the terms and conditions, if this gets to court, it is now playing a part in your claim.

As you are at the start of your other halfs claim, it is early days, so keep asking the questions, and I'm sure we will get there.

Hope I have been of help

Happy claiming

read read and read some more

 

Remus, thanks for an excellent reply, we asked for

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

I used the template letter from here to start the claim.

I'm a bit concerened, after reading the letter back, that the letter includes...

and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

thought this fee was not reclaimable?

 

Don't have Internet Banking, but will look into getting this.

We've just sent off the letter requesting repayment of charges... so still in the early stages.

 

Good advice about reading, reading, reading.... :D

Got information coming out of my ears... bit overwhelmed :D

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Hi bwdski, I might be wrong, but to my mind a complete list of transactions and charges = statement, just in a different form.

As you are in the early stages, I would go for IB, so you can print off your statements with charges on (that's all you will need) for court, so the Judge does not get confused by seeing something different:confused: and to put your mind at rest:)

Again that's if you get to that point.

 

 

"if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them" (bit before the £10).

Basically saying if you have to make a claim you will claim all charges and fee's that you incur.

So Bank get your Act together and give me my money back;)

It is overwhelming, but with the reading, pennies start dropping:cool:

Good luck:D

LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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Hi bwdski, I might be wrong, but to my mind a complete list of transactions and charges = statement, just in a different form.

As you are in the early stages, I would go for IB, so you can print off your statements with charges on (that's all you will need) for court, so the Judge does not get confused by seeing something different:confused: and to put your mind at rest:)

Again that's if you get to that point.

 

 

"if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them" (bit before the £10).

Basically saying if you have to make a claim you will claim all charges and fee's that you incur.

So Bank get your Act together and give me my money back;)

It is overwhelming, but with the reading, pennies start dropping:cool:

Good luck:D

 

Thanks Remus.

Your advice and guidance is a great help to me.

Nice to know that there are people out there willing to help others.

The Mrs is away for a week in Spain - so will have to wait till she's back to get the online banking sorted.

Still, a week is less than 40 days.

 

I can get the statements for the last six years online... that's cool, don't get that with my Online Banking Account

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Hi I just have a list of charges from the bank and I have used this in my bundle. As far as I know if that is the information that the bank has supplied you with then this is acceptable.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Hi I just have a list of charges from the bank and I have used this in my bundle. As far as I know if that is the information that the bank has supplied you with then this is acceptable.

 

Thanks mattyb13. Good to know these things.

You don't have a copy of the Terms & Conditions for September 2001 do you by any chance?

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thanks mattyb13, see you learn something new all the time:p

LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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I know what you mean. I also asked the question about the list of charges because that what I received and I was told that it was fine.

 

Also if you sent the SAR from the template library this is the 1st paragraph

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

You are basically asking for a list but a set of statements is acceptable

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Cheers Matty,

I'm just thinking ahead to when it comes to making the court bundle.

 

Would any of you good people write to the Bank asking for the statements and T&C's (for 2001)???

 

Would it look better in the court bundle?

Would it look better to the judge to show that you'd made every effort possible to get the required information?

 

I'm just thinking, I've sent the Request for Repayment letter last Friday.

If I send a reply to the letter they sent, would that nullify my request for repayment deadline of 14 days?

 

Really confused to be honest, and need to get it done ASAP really.

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Hi Bwdski

 

I just answered your other thread.

 

Uk

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WARNING TO ALL

Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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Thinking of writting to LTSB in reply to their letter (which is in the first post)

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx

Your offer of supplying the statements for the dates I requested is much appreciated.

I would like to take up your offer of supplying me with these statments.

 

I would also like a copy of the Terms & Conditions which were in effect when I opened the account.

 

I understand in accordance with the rules set out in the Data Protection Act, that you have 40 days in which to supply these. However, the time frame in my request for repayment of charges letter, which I sent to you on xx/xx/xx still remains. You have xx days to respond to that letter from xx/xx/xx.

 

Yours

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Does this letter seem OK?

If there's anything that you can see as being a problem, can you point it out please.

Any amendments or additions I need to make?

 

All help is greatly appreciated

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bwdski, "I'm just thinking, I've sent the Request for Repayment letter last Friday.

If I send a reply to the letter they sent, would that nullify my request for repayment deadline of 14 days?

It should make no difference, as all you are requesting is confirmation in the statements.

I'm not sure on the 40 days still being in force or if their reply is stating, as they have to archive the info, this in itself could allow them 40 days again.

The one thing I have learned from this site is that you cannot hurry things along, as you have to be seen by the Judge, as giving LTSB the correct time frame to try and resolve your claim.

I started back in march, court date 25th July, and my bundle will include every letter and time scale complete.

Defo ask for the T/C's and statements.

Hope the Mrs is enjoying her hol in Spain:)

LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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bwdski, "I'm just thinking, I've sent the Request for Repayment letter last Friday.

If I send a reply to the letter they sent, would that nullify my request for repayment deadline of 14 days?

It should make no difference, as all you are requesting is confirmation in the statements.

I'm not sure on the 40 days still being in force or if their reply is stating, as they have to archive the info, this in itself could allow them 40 days again.

The one thing I have learned from this site is that you cannot hurry things along, as you have to be seen by the Judge, as giving LTSB the correct time frame to try and resolve your claim.

I started back in march, court date 25th July, and my bundle will include every letter and time scale complete.

Defo ask for the T/C's and statements.

Hope the Mrs is enjoying her hol in Spain:)

 

Cheers remus!

She is very much enjoying herself.... nice and hot she says... cow ;)

 

I'll get that letter sent off tomorrow.

I'll not include anything about the time scale.

 

This site is one of the best I've found for friendly, helpful people.

Thanks guys for this :D

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have had This Letter from Lloyds TSB yesterday.

 

I'm at a loss as to what this letter is in reply to....

We've sent the S.A.R. and got the letter in Post 1 of this thread in return.

 

We then sent the letter requesting repayment of charges which we got from the templates here, giving them 14 days to reply.

 

On the 21st I sent a letter similar to this one:

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx

Your offer of supplying the statements for the dates I requested is much appreciated.

I would like to take up your offer of supplying me with these statments.

 

I would also like a copy of the Terms & Conditions which were in effect when I opened the account.

 

I understand in accordance with the rules set out in the Data Protection Act, that you have 40 days in which to supply these. However, the time frame in my request for repayment of charges letter, which I sent to you on xx/xx/xx still remains. You have xx days to respond to that letter from xx/xx/xx.

 

Yours

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

The letter we received yesterday doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me... can anyone enlighten me please....

 

and what is my next move?

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