Your response to retaliatory account closures by the A&L

[BankFodder]

Alliance and Leicester have announced in the newspapers, on the Internet and on BBC radio that they will close the account of anybody who begins a claim for the recovery of penalty charges.

This is unequivocal and unmistakable. This is a direct attempt to mock the report by the OFT.

 

Normally speaking if one wants to seek an injunction to prevent an account closure one would have to wait to receive notice of the account closure. This is because the courts do not grant injunctions lightly. They need to see that there is a real reason that an injunction is necessary.

 

However, in the light of the announcement by Alliance and Leicester, I would suggest that it is no longer necessary to wait for notice of account closure but instead to include a claim for an injunction as part of the claim for charges. It seems to me that the announcements in the press and on the radio this week are quite good enough firstly to show a judge that an account closure is imminent and secondly that the account closure is linked wholly to the challenge to the bank's unlawful charges.

 

Alliance & Leicester's announcement is extraordinarily helpful in the matter of obtaining an injunction. Where a customer has used his account poorly, there was a risk that the Alliance & Leicester would use that as the reason for the account closure.

 

This would have been difficult to argue against and it is likely that the account closure could not have been prevented. However the Alliance & Leicester's announcement has put it beyond doubt that their account closures when connected in any way with a challenge to their charges are uniquely a response to the claim for charges..

 

As the charges are unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, it follows that an account closure made in wants to a challenge to unfair charges must itself be unfair under the Regulations.

 

We will try to produce some FAQs and templates for application injunctions. Meanwhile, anyone deciding to pursue this route should contact us directly. We shall do what we can to help.

 

 

 

I think that our own reaction to the A&L's announcement is to say that the announcement is very helpful to anyone seeking to recover charges, prevent account closures and deal with unlawful default entries.

 

A clear case of foot in mouth syndrome, I would say.

[shellshocked]

OFT have messed up by not enforcing their comments, fining banks who dont change their penalty charges to nominal amounts.

 

Instead all they have done is advised whats a suitable penalty and then left the banks to it.

 

In truth they should have legislated it, banks forced to automatically refund excess charges and stop future charges or be fined.

[BankFodder]

I tried to bring up some of these points at the meeting with the OFT at a meeting in March. They were unwilling to discuss anything

[meagain]

Can this principle be extended to other institutions, by suggesting that since the A&L apparently do it as a matter of course, and have publicly announced it, other banks may be tempted to follow suit?

[hilaryfrances]

well let them try it with ME then!!!! see my post question to mods, I will soon have around £70,000 in my A & L savings account (not my money alas) It will be interesting to see if they insist my current account is closed. I am going to take your mods advice and open another current account just in case. THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST BULLIES

[BankFodder]

Can this principle be extended to other institutions, by suggesting that since the A&L apparently do it as a matter of course, and have publicly announced it, other banks may be tempted to follow suit?

You could apply for an injunction to prevent account closure by any one of the banks. However injunctions on not granted lightly and you would have to produce evidence that it was a likely event in your case. This means that you would normally have to wait for notice of your account closure and then seek the injunction.

Alliance & Leicester and nationwide have been very helpful because by making a public announcement I am fairly certain that a judge would accept this as evidence of the fact that your account was likely to be closed and that you needed a protective injunction.

I think that the effect of an injunction to prevent account closure would be devastating on the bank. I do not think that they would dare question it as this would result in the need for them to reveal all of the information which so far they are trying to hide in respect of penalty charges.

I really do think that A&L have shot themselves in the foot here. I think that their announcement was most ill advised that I don't see how they can retract from it. I think that they have to sit tight and hope nobody will seek injunctions.

We have to try and encourage as many people as possible to seek injunctions because it is only with this kind of pressure that there might be a fundamental change in the penalty charging system. If only one bank announces an end to it, all the others will follow suit. Penalty charges are so unpopular that any bank which announced the in of this unlawful regime would automatically increase its customer base quite substantially and quite rapidly

[meagain]

So, in summary, for banks other than A&L and NW, what sort of circumstances should people be looking at before even considering an injunction, other than a letter threatening closure? Are there any situations in which people with other banks would be particularly vulnerable or generally more likely to have their accounts closed?

 

(Sorry to be going on, but on the upside you'll probably get some good material for a FAQ )

[shellshocked]

I would assume the poorer you are the more likely they will close your account or use it as a threat.

[BankFodder]

I don't think it makes a lot of difference to their decision to close your account. Alliance & Leicester have said that they will do it to everybody. They have to do this. They will know that we will report every closure and every nonclosure on this forum.

The real question is how serious is this for you. The answer, of course, will be that the poorer you are and the bigger your overdraft then the less you will be able to stand this attack by the bank.

Once again we have an institution which historically has been marked by integrity, decency and as an institutional pillar of the community upon which all could depend but which has now turned into a jackal preying on the most vulnerable, racketeering and scavenging oblivious to the damage and disgust which it causes amongst the rest of the community.

The most shocking thing is that at some level there must be policymakers who are fully aware of what they are doing -- the rest of the people that we all deal with on a day-to-day basis are simply pawns following orders.

[david.m]

i just want to bump this thread and ask if anyone so far has done this with A&L

 

iv been reading the board for a few weeks and this is the first time i realised it existed ( i did search on A&L but nothing and now it should LOL)

[paulw]

Luckily I have a savings account with Lloyds but there is no standing order or debit facility. I fear I will have to close it to get all my money from work in a few days. I am not using the alliance account anymore because they stopped my debit card without warning a week ago and, i suspect, my cheque book. However they didn't stop me using my £1000 overdraft to pay the Inland Revenue early online (phew). I wonder if they will still close my account as stated on 26th October whilst I am still making use of that facility. Oh well, i don't mind a CCJ just to win this one. Luckily I have a spanish bank account and they have offered me a card.

[Guest Battleaxe]

If A & L close our account I am prepared to challenge them on this. I will need help how to go about this challenge.

 

I am also prepard to make a complaint about theft, because they took these charges out of our account without our permission and the charges are unlawful.

[younganfree]

 

I am also prepard to make a complaint about theft, because they took these charges out of our account without our permission and the charges are unlawful.

While the charges are unlawful, Battleaxe, we all (albeit unwittingly) agreed to the terms and conditions when we signed up. A fact which A&L take every opportunity to remind us!

 

Therefore, Battleaxe, I'm afraid to say I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on if you tried to claim that the charges were taken "without permission".

 

A further word of friendly advice, if I may, you also need to be careful about using the word "theft", as it could be considered libellous.

[meagain]

It's more accurate to say the excess of the charges was taken without entitlement (i.e. it's not yours and you're not supposed to have it either). You'd have to look up the precise definition in the Theft Act, but I believe it is only "deliberately and with the intent to permanently deprive" - it's pretty safe to say that phrase matches reality. There is the issue of whether or not the banks know that what they're doing is unlawful and potentially illegal - my opinion is that it's unconscionable to think that they don't.

[Guest Battleaxe]

I will be careful how things are worded, when I take A & L on for unlawful use of my funds. As far as I am concerned they did take the funds deliberately and with intent to permanently deprive me if such funds

 

I have found a legal eagle who will help me with the wording. I have yet to get past first base, so will keep the forum posted when I get to this stage.

 

Thank you for your advice, I am very careful not to be libellous, especially after using the phrase 'swag bag'. Where I come from it means something completely different , to how it is used over here and I won my point on that one when a complaint was made. The NHS is so PC.

[Jeff2000]

I would be quite willing to take out an injunction against the closure of my A&L current account. I have deliberately held back filing my claim until I had more information on this subject.

 

So if anybody can point me in the right direction or explain how to word my claim and injunction, then I would be very grateful.

 

I am basically resdy to go! If anybody requires further information, then just ask!

 

Thank to all in advance!

 

Jeff2000.

[Jeff2000]

Anybody!!?

[un1boy]

Best thing is to email BankFodder - you will have to prove though that you rely on this account and it will effect your life dramatically if they clsoed it!

[blackcatchillers]

Does this action apply to c cards held with A & L ?. Im thinking in terms of the following.

Data request sent---letter comes back saying "Heres the data you asked for,oh by the way we are closing your account,pay up in full please buddy before xx-xx-06 or its legal action time".Any thoughts?

[david.m]

bump

[un1boy]

Does this action apply to c cards held with A & L ?. Im thinking in terms of the following.

Data request sent---letter comes back saying "Heres the data you asked for,oh by the way we are closing your account,pay up in full please buddy before xx-xx-06 or its legal action time".Any thoughts?

 

I would assume that classes as retalitory action and the court doesn't like that!!

 

ASk them what the reasons for them calling the debt is in, so you've got in in writing; the FSA and banking code don't allow them to witdraw facilities just for making a request/complaint.

 

I can't see why they would be calling it in to be honest!!

[Guest Battleaxe]

Deep breath, I enclosed the briefing note form the FSA regarding resolution and complaints with my claim for payment. I am only giving them 14 days to reply since I have been consistently complaining about our account in writing since July. I have gone back on correspondence in the time we have had this particular account and the theme is the same, unfair charges. They know what I am intending to do and if they even write stating they are closing our account and withdrawing OD facilities, I am going to be like a shot with an Injunction, so much has been written about relatiatory action in closing accounts, I am sure our money saving expert Martin would be interested in someone taking on Goliath.

 

Sometimes it is we little old ladies (is this me?) who are brave enough to take this action. What have we got to lose? One bank account with O/D facilities if needed and a credit card or two.

 

As me old Dad says, might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb. Someone has to do it; if we all start to do it, these bullies will not have the upper hand, just because we are too timid to push the boundaries. Sore loosers hit back with punitive actions and isn't this what the banks are doing to us if we continue to let them?

[meagain]

You want to double-check your actual T&Cs. Some banks state it is purely discretionary, whereas others state it is a variation to your contract. If it is a variation to your contract, then you may be able to have the bank restrained from withdrawing that too. (Not an expert opinion).

[skudbuket]

Hi Guys, no way will an injunction be issued to prevent account closure, I have returned from court today after attempting to do this and have failed, and have also been stuck with a costs bill which if not paid off in time sticks you on the County Court Judgement list.

The piece of law that the Barrister for A and L quoted was a Times Law Report dated 1923, Prosperity Ltd vs Lloyds Bank Ltd, whereupon an Injunction cannot be used to prevent account closure.The only satisfaction got out of this was that the costs bill was cut in half and their barrister had taken 6 hours to drive to Sussex, Im rather miffed but did not really expect to win as the Judge had made it quite plain at the first hearing that their was no law in the land that forces someone to do business with another if they dont wish, and that suitable notice is given for account closure.

No victory but at least a bit of grief for the crappy bank, who very kindly have offered to open a basic account for me................

[un1boy]

Oh skudbucket I am sorry to hear that you ended up with the costs!

 

Ah well, at least you annoyed them some, eh?!