DVLA - SORN fine

[danny_kiernan]

I had a similar problem, the scrap merchants are supposed to alert the DVLA too, but they didn't. I quite happily appeared in court twice and the county court judge ruled in my favour. The moral is - don't be afraid of the court system, the DVLA are just out to make money, and also be prepared - heres my defence:

 

The DVLA has issued me with a “penalty” for allegedly not registering my vehicle as SORN.

Notwithstanding the fact that I advised the DVLA of the vehicles status, being taken by a salvage company for monies owed, but by virtue of the fact that the DVLA method of trial is a computer database and the postal system, I consider that the DVLA is acting Ultra Vires by attempting to extort monies from me without due legal process, as is my right under article 6 of the human rights convention and under the Bill of rights 1689. The DVLA is not a Court of Law nor is it a competent authority for the following reasons:

 

Article 6 of the given European Convention on Human Rights provides that -

"In the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. Judgment shall be pronounced publicly but the press and public may be excluded from all or part of the trial in the interests of morals, public order or national security in a democratic society, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require, or to the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice."

 

The said appeals service offered by the said DVLA is not established in accordance with law, as required by the said Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights -

 

in that:

 

The basic laws of the United Kingdom as provided within the Common Law of the Kingdom of England with the Principality of Wales and the province of Northern Ireland, and as further enacted by the Crown and Parliament of the United Kingdom to the purpose of establishing and preserving the Civil Liberties of all people living within the territories of the United Kingdom –

 

which Common Law may not be repealed and which Statute Law remains un-repealed -

 

have been and are now being violated by the provisions of such enactment as now claims to provide lawful authority for the existence and conduct of the DVLA, but which fails to provide any such lawful authority, because of the given violations to Constitutional Laws and Provisions which retain the force of law.

 

In evidence of the submission given, a full reference is made to the text of the Common Law Charter of King Henry III, dated 1225 (the existence of which Charter is now evidenced by the text of the 1297 enactment of King Edward I and his parliament), and a further full reference is made to the several texts of the Declaration & Bill of Rights (variously dated February & December of 1689) –

 

which latter documents now serve to define and restrict the powers of the Crown in Parliament, to the purpose of preserving Peaceful Government under the Rule of Law,

 

Article 234 (formerly Article 177), of the Treaty establishing the legal entity that is now known as the European Union now provides -

 

 

• that the European Court of Justice shall have jurisdiction to
  give preliminary rulings concerning -
   
  (a) the interpretation of the Treaty;
   
  (b) the validity and interpretation of acts (entered into) by the
  institutions of the Community and/or by the European Bank;
   
  © the interpretation of the statutes of bodies established by an
  act of the Council, where those statutes so provide.

• Where such a question is raised before any court or tribunal
  of a Member State, that court or tribunal may, if it considers
  that a decision on the question is necessary to enable it to
  give judgment, request the Court of Justice to give a ruling
  thereon.

• Where any such question is raised in a case pending before
  a court or tribunal of a Member State against whose decis-
  ions there is no judicial remedy under national law, that court
  or tribunal shall bring the matter before the Court of Justice.

Magna Carta of 1225, confirmed by the Statute of 1297.

"We will not pass upon him, nor [condemn him], but by lawful judgment of his peers, or by the Law of the Land."

 

I contend that the clear option as to method of trial is an option that belongs to me as my property, and that title to this property is confirmed by the Confirmation of Liberties given in Magna Carta-

 

"We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties underwritten, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever"

 

I also contend that the substantive law relevant to this hearing is further declared by the provisions of the Declaration of Rights and further secured by the Bill of Rights subsequently enacted -

 

"That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void"

As such, I do not recognise the DVLA’s authority to issue penalties/fines nor have I had a trial within a competent criminal Court to find guilt under a section 31A offence of not procuring a vehicle licence. Should the DVLA insist on pursuing this unlawful course of action, then I request that you refer the matter to the European Court of Justice under article 234.

Hope that helps you out, it sorted out the case in my favour.

Danny

[danny_kiernan]

Nearly forgot, do a counter claim for time wasted - I got nearly £2k, which is an added bonus to seeing the DVLA rubbished in court.

 

I don't guarantee this works for everyone btw, but it worked for me

[danny_kiernan]

Sorry Jenna1 - but that is rubbish, ring up a couple of county courts and they have a massive list of DVLA cases, if you call the bulk processing centre, the last one was registered today.

 

If, as you say bailiffs are coming out, well they can f**k off as there is no court order and, as it says on the registration certificate: A 'fine' will be issued. Not a supplementary charge, as it states in the road traffic act. If the supplementary charge was the case, an invoice would come out to the person with a vehicle. Then a county court case. The government cannot send out bailiffs on a whim - if they could, we would all have blown up the houses of parliament and had a revolution.

 

Jenna1 you are mistaken

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

To RugbyPete,

 

If you want to pay the fine, that is cool - you have got 50% off.

 

Personally I would refuse it and go to court as I did before, but I am a stubborn SOB and did it on principle.

 

Hope that helps

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

I didn't mean to be offensive Jenna1, but the DVLA are still registering SORN cases in Northampton

[danny_kiernan]

Hiya - have you tried my template letter with them?

 

The DVLA has issued me with a “penalty” for allegedly not registering my vehicle as SORN.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that I advised the DVLA of the vehicles status, being taken by a salvage company for monies owed, but by virtue of the fact that the DVLA method of trial is a computer database and the postal system, I consider that the DVLA is acting Ultra Vires by attempting to extort monies from me without due legal process, as is my right under article 6 of the human rights convention and under the Bill of rights 1689. The DVLA is not a Court of Law nor is it a competent authority for the following reasons:

 

Article 6 of the given European Convention on Human Rights provides that -

 

"In the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. Judgment shall be pronounced publicly but the press and public may be excluded from all or part of the trial in the interests of morals, public order or national security in a democratic society, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require, or to the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice."

 

The said appeals service offered by the said DVLA is not established in accordance with law, as required by the said Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights -

 

in that:

 

The basic laws of the United Kingdom as provided within the Common Law of the Kingdom of England with the Principality of Wales and the province of Northern Ireland, and as further enacted by the Crown and Parliament of the United Kingdom to the purpose of establishing and preserving the Civil Liberties of all people living within the territories of the United Kingdom –

 

which Common Law may not be repealed and which Statute Law remains un-repealed -

 

have been and are now being violated by the provisions of such enactment as now claims to provide lawful authority for the existence and conduct of the DVLA, but which fails to provide any such lawful authority, because of the given violations to Constitutional Laws and Provisions which retain the force of law.

 

In evidence of the submission given, a full reference is made to the text of the Common Law Charter of King Henry III, dated 1225 (the existence of which Charter is now evidenced by the text of the 1297 enactment of King Edward I and his parliament), and a further full reference is made to the several texts of the Declaration & Bill of Rights (variously dated February & December of 1689) –

 

which latter documents now serve to define and restrict the powers of the Crown in Parliament, to the purpose of preserving Peaceful Government under the Rule of Law,

 

Article 234 (formerly Article 177), of the Treaty establishing the legal entity that is now known as the European Union now provides -

 

 

• that the European Court of Justice shall have jurisdiction to
  give preliminary rulings concerning -
   
  (a) the interpretation of the Treaty;
   
  (b) the validity and interpretation of acts (entered into) by the
  institutions of the Community and/or by the European Bank;
   
  © the interpretation of the statutes of bodies established by an
  act of the Council, where those statutes so provide.

• Where such a question is raised before any court or tribunal
  of a Member State, that court or tribunal may, if it considers
  that a decision on the question is necessary to enable it to
  give judgment, request the Court of Justice to give a ruling
  thereon.

• Where any such question is raised in a case pending before
  a court or tribunal of a Member State against whose decis-
  ions there is no judicial remedy under national law, that court
  or tribunal shall bring the matter before the Court of Justice.

Magna Carta of 1225, confirmed by the Statute of 1297.

"We will not pass upon him, nor [condemn him], but by lawful judgment of his peers, or by the Law of the Land."

 

I contend that the clear option as to method of trial is an option that belongs to me as my property, and that title to this property is confirmed by the Confirmation of Liberties given in Magna Carta-

 

"We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties underwritten, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever"

 

I also contend that the substantive law relevant to this hearing is further declared by the provisions of the Declaration of Rights and further secured by the Bill of Rights subsequently enacted -

 

"That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void"

As such, I do not recognise the DVLA’s authority to issue penalties/fines nor have I had a trial within a competent criminal Court to find guilt under a section 31A offence of not procuring a vehicle licence. Should the DVLA insist on pursuing this unlawful course of action, then I request that you refer the matter to the European Court of Justice under article 234.

 

It works for most people

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

Josie 8 thats the UPU agreement, where the UK have a proviso that the post becomes the recipients as soon as it has been posted, unlike every other country, where the post remains the senders till it gets there.

 

So you are right, legally

[danny_kiernan]

Pete, Well I sent it to the DVLA and used it in court - so probably best to send a copy to both, I am not sure though as I have never sent a letter to an MP before personally.

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

lol - my fee is more than the fine, the best thing for you to do is pop into the local library and read up on the laws I mentioned. Just looking online doesn't work as there is a lot of information there which isn't totally accurate. I have a subscription to the Law Society to read cases which have occurred, but it is expensive - so I would advise against joining as when you win against the DVLA (not if but when), they won't reimburse those costs.

 

Trust me, a day looking through the law in a library is an eye-opener and will probably help you in any future legal disputes. It is a bit hard to find the exact information you need from the library, but is worth the search.

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

You can SORN your car on line and you don't need the tax reminder.

 

Go to: DVLA Online Vehicle Licensing | Home

 

Enter the document ref number on your V5C and the registration number.

 

The SORN is immediate and you have an e-mail to confirm it. It takes up to 4 weeks for the written confirmation to be sent.

 

Yes Boris you can, depends if the DVLA database is working or not though - or they lose your details due to human error (which weirdly becomes your error)

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

very true boris

[danny_kiernan]

Hi Shabz,

 

Sorry for my late reply - I've been on holiday this week on the not-so sunny lincolnshire coast, freezing our butts off at night (brrrrrrr).

 

Glad to be back home, in the warm now

 

The answer to your question is yes, you can use the template letter, I put up in your case as it states that the DVLA is not a court of law and cannot make judgements, fining people.

 

Also, if you have sent off the SORN declaration, then you can quote the UPU act, if they deny receiving it (lost in post).

 

If you have any questions, please let me know - I am happy to help.

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

Hi all,

 

This case sounds very familliar as my partner and i was going threw this. Last july we decided to purches a car of a neighbour we then decided to not buy it and he sold it on to someone else. we signed the document to say we no longer had the vehicle and despite sending them a letter every month they managed to lose the document and the letters took us to court and the case got thrown out. took a year to sort out but it was done. They have not refiled, as they can do, but what they failed to do was there job. I found out that they should have put an stop on the vechile out so that the owner can be questioned over ownership of the car. Needless to say we had to do that and we also had to inform the police that the car was missing and a rough idea of where the owner lived. well good luck with this matter and keep us informed.

 

Cool Fairy Godmother - another person who takes on the DVLA

Well done

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

A person after my own heart GodMother

 

I would love to see how much the DVLA spends on lawyers, taking us all to court, surely that is wrong using our money to take other people to court.

 

The same is true of the BBC, to pay their massive fine, for dodgy phone competitions - they took the money out of licence payers money.

 

This government needs a shakeup. They no longer have their constituants interests at heart - merely their own money making schemes.

[danny_kiernan]

Good Luck Shabz - I think they will scrap the fee

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

So, they've sent me the letter - now what? Sit it out or send something else??

Or write to my MP?

 

What about submitting proof of scrapped car?

annoying thing is I cant remember who scrapped my vehicle, it was a case of ringing someone int he back of my local rag and they came and took away for free

 

Hi Pete,

 

Unfortunately, it's now a waiting game, they will either try to take you to county court , or they won't.

 

The last letter you received was basically them trying to intimidate you again, stick to your guns

 

Kind Regards

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

Sorry about this,

But since my court judgement (which I won) the DVLA has been factoring out SORN fines to a company called Capita - the same company that the TV licencing use. 1 of the directors has a distinctly scary past, I don't have any details on the other directors.