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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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us v the Abbey for £7,500***WON***


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Ok in a nutshell we followed all the procedures, last letter back from Abbey said they needed more time - 8 weeks! - to investigate our "complaint." (Thats after the initial four weeks they always tell you it will take.) We wrote back telling them they had 14 days to pay up or we would go to court (following the template letter, and offering to accept a slightly lower amount, without prejudice.) The 14 days was up yesterday, but we have heard nothing. Is this going to be a tough one, considering the amount involved? Do you think they are going to throw everything they can at us to stop the claim? We are so worried about going to court, that one false move or incomplete paperwork will mean we lose the £250 court fee and any hope of the £7,500, which plus statutory interest is over £9,000. We are going to buy the lawpack and the book on small claims, but any reassurance or guidance from anyone here would really be appreciated.

 

Thanks all from very worried, and probably soon to be, ex-customers of Abbey

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Hi ohoh,

 

Join the queue, I've just sent off my court bundle to them and claiming about £8.5K, there was a winner on here last week who accepted £9.1K, so it's not an unusual amount your claiming

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................................................

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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Thanks for the reassurances - it has helped me calm down a bit, but still dithering!

So do I wait for them to reply or do I just go ahead with court, considering they are outside of the 14 days? Then do I tell them I've started proceedings or not? I've read so much about what to do but find it really scary in practise!

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Guest amethystdragon

Go ahead with the court proceedings - They won't come back to you - they are hoping you just fade away into the woodwork because you are so frightened about going to court - they are doing the same to all of us - Write your particulars of claim out and post it on here for people to doublecheck - we've all been there and we can help you along the way - I'm a little further on than you - I've just received the defences from Abbey for both the accounts I'm pursuing and I'm now waiting for the AQ forms

 

Good luck and stay strong - My friend has just won nearly £4K today against First Direct because they forgot to submit the defence!!!! - you can do it

 

Oh and don't contact Abbey about starting the court case - save your postage - they will find out soon enough when they get the claim from the court!!!!

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Guest amethystdragon

Oh and by the way you need to use the N1 procedure for this amount of money not MCOL - Take a look in the library for all the templates

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Oh and by the way you need to use the N1 procedure for this amount of money not MCOL - Take a look in the library for all the templates

 

Wow, thanks - did wonder about MCOL because of size of claim, but couldn't find any info on alternate ways till now. Printed off form to work out what to put on it, found exactly what I needed to write from another post, so thank you thank you thank you!

 

Do I have to take the forms to my local court personally to be processed when they are done then? And also, I created a Schedule of Charges initially to send to Abbey showing the 8% interest also, but I didn't put what each charge is for. Do I need to that, and is that Schedule sufficient for the court claim, or do i need to include all the bank statements as well? Sorry for being thick but like everyone I have only one chance to get it right.

 

Last thing (!) - the Schedule I did has the interest calculation as at 11th May, the day I was sending it to Abbey. Do I need to recalculate it all (help, it took me a whole day to do!), to the date of submission to the Court, or will that be done automatically?

 

Seriously appreciate any help.

 

Thanks so much x

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Guest amethystdragon

Are you not using the spreadsheet from the library for your schedule of charges? - if not why not? it makes life so much easier as you go through the process as you only have to update one field and it automatically calculates the interest for you

 

CAG Spreadsheets

 

The link above should take you to all the templates in the library - The schedule of charges needs to have some sort of description - I just used Unpaid Direct Debit, Unpaid Standing Order, Returned Cheque etc - which appears to be sufficient

 

When you submit your N1 - you need to include the schedule of charges with the interest updated to the date you take it into court - don't include your statements at this point - that goes in your court bundle which is later in the process.

 

I would also put your particulars of claim on a seperate sheet as well as they tend to be longer than the space given on the N1 form - Then on the form itself just put "Particulars of Claim Attached" or something similar

 

Also don't forget - this documentation needs to be in triplicate - One for you, one for the court and one for Abbey - The court seal is put onto all of them and returned to you

 

HTH

 

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Thanks AmeythystDragon - now I need to pick your brains a bit more!

 

I am very new to this site, and originally used the calculator from MoneySavingsExpert.com to compile my spreadsheet, but it will be easy to transfer the data from mine to this one.

 

On the post I read re the N1 claim form, it said to leave the "value" box on page 1 blank - is that correct?

 

The Particulars of Claim I cribbed from said post are as follows:

 

1. The Claimant has an account - a/c no xxxx - ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around (date).

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant has debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect ofany breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or relate to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which excercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of The Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations (1999), The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, and common law.

5. Accordingly, the Claimant claims:

a) the return of all amounts debited in respect of the afore-mentioned charges in the sum of £xxxx, and any interest charged thereon;

b) court costs;

c) interest pursuant to Section 69 of The County Courts Act, as set out on the attached Schedule of Charges, or at such rate and for such periods as the Court deems just.

 

Is this sufficient/acceptable?

 

Thanks again - I really ought to pay you a commission!

 

Regards

 

Jo :D

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on page 1 it says

VALUE (type nothing her

CHARGES.(total of what they have charged you)

OVERDRAFT INTREST(this is what they have charged you in od charges. iv found most people have left this as is diff to calculate)

INTREST UNDER S69 (this is were you put total of 8% int)

COURT FEE (150.00 if below 5k 250.00 above check court cost)

TOTAL (charges+ od interest+ court fee+8% int)

hope this was what you were after

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Thanks badboy - yes I was wondering about leaving "value" box blank. On the N1 form it doesnt ask about overdraft interest, but to be honest it doesnt amount to much and is too difficult for me extract the correct figures, but I am quite happy going after the "Shabbey" for 7.5 k plus statutory interest - total figure £9,500 - that will do!

 

Thanks so much for your help, and good luck to you

 

Jo xxx

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Oh my goodness! Have just checked account online, and there are 15 "miscellaneous fee refunds" credited today, totalling a paltry £430. They have given me no notification of this, and seeing as my claim is for £7500, I am pretty damn angry!

 

What should my next course of action be? Should I query it with them, or still go ahead with court claim?

 

Please help - I would have rathered they had done nothing than this!

 

Any help much appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Jo x

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Hi Jo,

 

I would keep that seperate as you can always claim them after you have sucessfully beaten Abbey the once!

 

You could contact the court and ask about putting in a revised schedule of charges. However this costs money and can confuse and delay your original claim.

 

By all means though give Abbey a call and ask them what they are for!

 

Best wishes

 

Leecabs :)

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Thanks for that Leecabs.

 

But I am still in the process of asembling everything for the court claim - haven't actually filed yet, so do I deduct these charges from the claim? And if I do, I don't even know which ones they are refunding, which makes the interest calculation difficult, if not impossible (I could take them from 2001, say, and they could say they were from 2004), meaning I lose out on the interest for the oldest ones, if you se what I mean.

 

My head is spinning and I really am stuck. I think I will call the Abbey telephone banking and see if I can get some sense out of them. (not hopeful!)

 

In the meantime, if anyone else has had, and resolved, a similar problem I would love to hear about it, so I can stop doing the "headless chicken" thing!

 

Thanks all

 

Jo x

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Im sorry I got a bit confused didnt realise you meant refunds durr!

 

Sorry was having a blonde moment well I would proceed with your claim with your original schedule of charges!

 

You need to send a rejection letter stating that you can only accept this money as part of your full claim. Read the below section on rejecting offers:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejecting-offers.html

 

Sorry if I confused you, just keep at them!

 

Leecabs:o

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Ok, so telephone bankinhg have no idea what these refunds are for - what a surprise!

 

Quote: "there is probably a letter in the post to you regarding them. If not you will have to write to Banking Services and ask for an explanation."

 

Probably a letter in the post? Have to ask for an explanation??!!?

 

I am getting angrier by the minute - these "refunds" constitute just over 5% of the total claim - I call that an insult! And where do they get off just putting it in my account without informing me? I cant accept/reject something I haven't even been officially offered.

 

If I touch this pittance, does that constitute acceptance by default?

 

PLEASE HELP! I feel as though they have me cornered, and I really would appreciate any advice on this.

 

Thanks

 

Jo x

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Hi again Jo,

 

I would fire off a pre-emptive rejection letter for the total amount of these refunds by special delivery.

 

Not sure if you touch the money whether that is deemed as acceptance, as long as you dont touch until your rejection letter has been recieved by Abbey I think you should be ok.

 

Its annoying but I would imagine you will get a letter from Abbey regarding this by tomorrow or Monday by the latest.

 

Bottom line for now I would leave a minimum of the total amount of refunds (£430) in the account, just until Shabbeys intentions have been made clear.

 

Has anyone else got some advice for Jo regarding this situation please?

 

All the best

 

Leecabs:)

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Hi OHOH

 

I wouldn't worry about which charges the refunds are relating to. Just take the refunded amount off the total rather than try to cancel out exact charges.

 

Abbey did the same to me and I just thanked them for the Goodwill gesture but explained that this was in NO WAY Full or Final settlement and carried onto MCOL. If you have already started your claim I would just write to the court and ask them to attach an amended sheet of charges to your claim with the explaination that Abbey have credited your account as a Gesture of Goodwill without prior agreement with yourself.

 

Wouldn't amend the actual charges list just stick another line on the bottom to show the credited amount and then on the next line the new amount now being claimed.

 

Hope this helps.

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Right, I have just spoken to Josh in the Abbey Complaints Dept., to be told that £430 is a GoGW which they think is a fair amount! £430 out of £7,500? I don't think so!

 

But I kept very calm and just politely asked why I had not been informed they were doing this, and why I could not decline the offer BEFORE the money was put in the bank?

 

Apparently there should be a letter to me about it, but they think it is a "nice way" to do things, oh and by the way, quote "the money is yours now whatever you decide to do!" Whoop dee dooo!

 

"Are you declining this offer then?" Josh asks. (Well what the hell do you think!) "I am afraid so" I politely reply. "OK then, we will have to move your claim onto Stage 2." Put on hold for 5 minutes. "Hi there, ok I have moved you onto Stage 2, and you will hear from us in the next 5 working days."

 

So what now? If I file at court before I have received their "Stage 2" letter, whatever that might be, do I compromise the situation by not allowing them time to write to me, or what?

 

Does anyone know what Stage 2 actually is? He wouldn't go into to details, just said I would have to wait for the letter.

 

Help/Advice/Anything PLEASE!!!!

 

Thanks

 

Jo x

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Thanks Leecabs and feater - was writing my latest post while you were replying to me!

 

Cheers for the advice and reassurance.

 

Jo x

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Have you sent a the Prelim letter and your Letter Before Action (Steps 2 to 4) yet? Ignore there stages and stick to the ones listed in the below step by step link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

 

Dont forget to get that rejection letter fired off asap.

 

Go get them!

 

Leecabs:D

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Yep I have followed all the procedures - last letter on 15th May was LBA, giving them till 29th to cough up or else!

 

Just compiling letter now - will go Special Delivery 3pm this afternoon to be delivered before 1pm tomorrow. Tempted to be rude and tell them where to stick their £430 (!) but of course I won't be :D

 

Jo x

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This could almost be funny:

 

Postman was really late today, but when he came there were TWO letters from Abbey.

 

One is dated 4th June, and is from the Banking Specialist Team - standard letter saying their charges are correct etc etc and offering me £480 as a goodwill gesture (this includes £50 of charges for last month where I went £4 over the overdraft, that they have magnanimously cancelled!)

Also says case is closed in essence, unless we respond within the next eight weeks.

 

The other letter is dated 5th June, and is from Complaints Dept., and it says that although it has been 8 weeks since we first contacted Abbey, the investigation is still on-going and they are unable to give a full response just now!

 

Case of right hand/left hand me thinks!

 

Anyway, I have sent a response today by Special Delivery, quoting the two letters and asking them to clarify what exactly is going on.

I also wrote:

 

However, notwithstanding our confusion, we hereby decline this offer as full settlement of our claim, but, as the interest we are entitled to claim if the case goes to court is accruing daily, we are prepared to make a final offer of settlement, namely:

 

"Standard without prejudice paragraph for the original lower figure we offered to accept, less the £480."

 

For the avoidance of doubt, should we not receive £6,375 within 14 days of the date of this letter, we shall commence proceedings through the County Court without further warning.

 

Don't suppose this will provoke any reaction, but hopefully will look good in Court, if it goes that far, that their letters contradict each other, and also that we tried again to settle before court proceedings.

 

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.

 

Jo x

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You go Jo!

 

Hey least you got a bit back I havent had so much as an offer of £1 let alone £480 yet!

To be honestI hope Abbey just sleep walk through my claim and forget to acknowledge and then forget to defend (Fingers Crossed)

 

Take care :)

 

Leecabs

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