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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Caroline VS Nationwide


carolineiam
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I cannot wait to sue them ..... they have been really horrible to me when I was in maternity pay not being able to afford the credicard. I had told them that when I finish my maternity leave then I can resume payments in my credit card which was not over the limit. The said 'tough' I said it is only gonna be for 6 months and then I would be back to work. Maternity pay is only 400 a month ! they said tough and they froze my bank account (also with Nationwide) until I pay up the credit card installmen. In the bank account there were my family tax credit benefit and my maternity pay and my child benefit. I explained this to them and they said : tough ! so I had to borrow some money from my brother in order to pay one installment so they lifted the freeze from my account so I could buy baby milk etc. So I opened a different saving account and got all wages / benefits there. I started paying 50 pounds a month to my credit card. Even though I carried on paying they took me to court and got a charge on my property and I had to pay court costs as well :sad: .

 

 

They were horrible and I will enjoy taking my own back on them. :-x :-x

 

 

 

I got my statements for my flex account and waiting for my Nationwide credit card statements on monday.

 

Do you reckon I should do two separate claims or include both flex account and credit card claims in one letter and subsequently in one court claim ( it would be less than 5000)

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caroline

 

For the sake of simplicity, I think it would be best to do two spreadsheets, but to send one 'prelim'/'LBA' etc with the total amount shown.

 

The facts that you relate in your post are truly horrifying.

 

It beggars belief that in 2007 we still see this happening.

 

If you have time, check out the following links ...

 

BBC NEWS | England | Devon | Woman settles Halifax stress case

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/87097-has-anyone-used-ssaa.html

 

The facts of your case have to be worth reporting to the FSA? The BBA (Banking Code)? Trading standards? OFT? Appalling.

 

The decision maker handling your account at the Nationwide has no place in decent society, let alone working for a bank.

 

Really HTH,

T.

"Weasel (n): any person or group that operates in that vast grey area between good ethical behaviour and the sort of activities that might send you to jail".

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absoloutely horrific.......

Proud to be different? Mutual society? Care about members?

They deserve everything they get, dont hold back.

When you have got the money back (and of course if you are up for it) I would be inclined to get in touch with the bbc. Im guessing thats the sort of story they are looking for.

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Hello carolineiam!

 

I realise that U have already set up another account for your income

(...U don't make it clear whether it's still with Nationwide, or another Bank btw??!)

and the rest of this post may now be irrelevant, but it may serve U well in the future.

 

Below are several links to Threads about the "Right of Appropriation" and how just a couple, of many, CAG Members have used it to try to stop their Banks from having 1st call on their meagre income...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/42170-right-appropriation-stop-bank.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/84731-norwich-peterborough-1st-right.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/90699-please-help-me-right.html

 

 

 

With regards Nationwide having obtained a 'Charge' on your home...

U may find that by reading through some of the Threads and/or starting your own Thread in the "General Debt Forum", U will come across others who will be more readily able to advise U

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/

 

Here are some external links to some further helpful advice that U may also find useful...

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 15 Charging Orders In The County Court

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 18 Interest Charges On A Consumer Credit Judgment

 

Removal of CCJ's - Main Menu

 

Removal of CCJ's - Step by step guide to the process

 

Removal of CCJ's - Valid reasons to have your judgements set aside

(No. 9 valid reason to apply for a "Set Aside" may be applicable if unlawful Penalty Charges were part of the Total that the original CCJ was given for??!)

 

 

 

I personally, would keep the Claims on your Flexaccount and your Nationwide Credit Card separate from start to finish, beyond the S.A.R. stage.

If U try to combine the two, Nationwide will no doubt, attempt to get U confused.

Another reason is that Interest is worked out differently on Credit Cards than on Current Accounts.

Finally, problems with any one part of your combined Claim, won't jeopardise or hold up the other part, if U keep them split.

 

Reading through #4 of the following Thread may help U consider your next options @ the Preliminary Letter stage...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/70325-im-new-confused-please.html

 

 

Best of luck!...:)

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Hi all...

 

Nationwide wrote to me saying they LOST they S.A.R letter and do I have any evidence of this. I wrote back sending them a photocopy of the royal mail registered delivery page including a scan of the signature of the guy that received the letter in their data protection department. The letter was authored by a Susan Taylor. I also included a photocopy of the postal order that was CASHED ! Further to that I reminded the that they are not following the law as there has been 93 days since the S.A.R was issued.

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I got another letter saying if they could have a copy of my initial S.A.R. I emailed them the following :

"

Please find attached a copy of the original letter I sent to you, delivered by Royal Mail's next day Special Delivery on xxxx

 

I require a formal Data Protection response to this in reference to my initial application received by Nationwide Building Society 91 days ago.

 

As we discussed on the phone earlier, I require a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my Credit Card Account fromxxxx xxxx up to xxxx You stated that you have requested a copy of all my credit card statements to be forwarded to me, which I should receive by Monday 4th June and I can confirm that I am happy with this.

As I mentioned, I am not interested how you meet your obligations, (contacting credit card services, etc) just that you do. I'm stunned at how my original letter can go completely astray in your department yet the postal order enclosed with it is banked the very same day!

 

Nevertheless, your sincere personal assistance has been noted and very much appreciated.

 

Yours sincerely

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I Waited and waited and nothing has happened .... not delivering what they promised. I received a call saying that I should give them another coupled of days. So I emailed again

 

"

In our previous correspodence in regards to your outstanding

non-compliance in regards to my subject access request received by your

department on the xxxx 07 you reassured me that I would have a

reply by Monday the 4th of June 07. Unfortunately this hasn't happened

yet as I have not received the aforementioned credit card statements.

Frankly my patience is wearing thin. The next stage will be

either a formal complaint to the FO, the ICO or the county court which

has the power to force you to comply with my request as well as award

damages. It is clear to me that reasonable time has been given

to you. Nevertheless, due to yourself promising that Nationwide will

comply with my request I am willing to wait for an extra 4 days.

Thus I will expect that until the 7th of June I will receive the

information you now unlawfully withhold. Thank you

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They called me again saying that they can trace statements for 2 whole years ! I said that this is rediculous and as I have defaulted on the credit card and they took a charge on my property for the alleged debt they must have them statements or instantly they should wipe off the debt I incurred in the said years. They said they will investigate further.

 

Hey I got an email reply :

 

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I have been advised that all available statements will be despatched to

you on 06.06.07.

 

Once again please accept my apologies for the delay you have

experienced

in receiving your information.

 

Kind regards "

 

 

to this I replied :

 

'Thank you for your prompt reply. I will expect that you will comply with my S.A.R and provide me statements relating to the period of time I specified. I find it difficult to understand what is it that you mean by stating that 'all available statements will be dispatched" Surely all statements of my credit card account should be available regardless.

 

I hope that Nationwide will comply fully with my S.A.R and provide the information I requested for the time period I requested. If the information I receive does not cover the whole time period requested in the S.A.R you received on the 20th of feb 07 then I will have no other option but to issue a formal complaint to the FO and the ICO or pursue a claim to the county court which has the power to force you to comply with my request as well as award damages. '

 

 

 

 

How do you guys think I am doing so far ? Do you think they are trying to be funny with this .... they are so polite in the phone and they did admit they delayed the claim and that it was their fault. :confused:

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Hi carolineiam!

 

One of the reasons why Claimants are adviced NOT to contact Banks other than via written correspondance is cos the Bank will attempt to bamboozle them over the phone + the Claimant has no 'hard' evidence to produce in court of whatever the Bank verbally promises and fails to deliver on.

 

If Nationwide have failed to comply with your initial S.A.R. after the 40 days are up, the course of action is simple.

Don't let them further 'slow time' U...act positively + assertively.

 

They have committed an 'Offence' + they KNOW that they have!!!

U really NEED to read the following links...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6971-data-protection-act-non.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/helpful-external-links/7054-data-protection-act-taking.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/statutes-library/91-data-protection-act-1998-a.html

 

Please don't let them draw U into further needless correspondance/conversation.

Take the 'bull by the horns'...Tigger!

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Hey Caroline

I read your story with interest, I too had a similar "incident" with NW whereby I was made redundant, I was overdrawn on my flex account and they wanted me to pay the overdraft up in full, because I couldnt, they froze my whole months salary and threatened to put a charge on my house. I went to the CAB, they put the phone down on them twice - so I too have taken great pleasure in getting my own back on them. I am further along than yourself, I submitted my N1 form to court with a copy of my charges (over £1000 worth) and they failed to lodge a defence as of yesterday, so today I have posted my request for a court judgement. Fingers crossed that this goes in my favour! I didnt have the same issue as you trying to obtain the list of charges, sounds to me like just another delay tactic they are using to try and put people off - do not be deterred! Everyone on this website are fantastic, i couldnt have got this far without them. I will watch your case with interest. GOOD LUCK

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Hey Caroline

I read your story with interest, I too had a similar "incident" with NW whereby I was made redundant, I was overdrawn on my flex account and they wanted me to pay the overdraft up in full, because I couldnt, they froze my whole months salary and threatened to put a charge on my house. I went to the CAB, they put the phone down on them twice - so I too have taken great pleasure in getting my own back on them. I am further along than yourself, I submitted my N1 form to court with a copy of my charges (over £1000 worth) and they failed to lodge a defence as of yesterday, so today I have posted my request for a court judgement. Fingers crossed that this goes in my favour! I didnt have the same issue as you trying to obtain the list of charges, sounds to me like just another delay tactic they are using to try and put people off - do not be deterred! Everyone on this website are fantastic, i couldnt have got this far without them. I will watch your case with interest. GOOD LUCK

 

 

Thanks for this claire .... I will need your help in future .

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Hi Claire, apparently I would have been better off waiting and giving NW another 7 days to file a defence - unfortunately that advice was too late for me but worth keeping in mind for yourself. It would seem to be another delay tactic the banks are using because even if a judge has ruled in my favour, they can then apply for the judgement to be set aside- giving them a period of time to file a defence - delaying my claim even longer. Will let you know how it goes.

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Hi Caroline, I have been trying to get back my charges from NW since January and ended up following advice on this forum. I had filled out my court claim and just wanted to check everything was o.k before filing it when I came across a thread 'another win-cuddles v nationwide'. He had got fed up with the standard bog off letters and went to the Financial Ombudsman Service. He got a very quick response from the Nationwide and other people posting on his thread are trying the same thing. I immediately stopped my court claim and went the FOS way yesterday saving myself the £120 court costs and apparently every time the FOS send a letter of complaint on someones behalf NW get a £500 fine. Take a look at his thread. You may wish to consider this route; save yourself the court fees; save yourself the anxiety and hopefully get the same results. Good luck.;)

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  • 3 weeks later...

8 days after posting the prelim letters for ntwide credit card and my flex account I received a reply for the ntwide credit card.

 

 

It stated that they will only pay the difference on any charges over the 12 pound limit. They quoted the OFT saying that 12 pounds are fair. They also said that they would return this balance to my account even though the credit card is closed due to me defaulting on it !

 

 

I am still waiting for a responce for the flexaccount.

 

 

I quickly drafted a letter for my responce.

 

Shall I posted now or wait for the 14 days to fully expire ?

 

 

LETTER BEFORE COURT ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Regarding: Nationwide Credit Card Services: Gold card number: xxxxxxxxxx.

 

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to positively respond to my letter of the xxxxxx. Furthermore may I add that the OFT recommendation is not legally binding and that I am very much aware that you have been refunding the full amount to other disgruntled customers of yours as it is clearly shown with the amount of cases you have settled in full and unconditionally so far.

 

Due to recent media coverage on credit card charges and my enquiries to legal professionals as well as a number of financial recovery companies specialising in this field, I now believe that you, Nationwide Building Society have been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in her obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. I now believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999.

In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

Furthermore if you fail to comply with this letter, I request without further notice a breakdown and proof of all costs involved, in regards to your actual or liquidated losses involved in any breach of contract to which these charges relate with yourselves, and that these charges reflect your true costs in relation to the said charges, and are proportionate to the charges levied on my account as defined in Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e). I also hereby request a detailed report of which clause in your terms and conditions each charge has been applied against and you are also reminded of my request that you forward a copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©, and your continued failure to provide them will be brought to the attention of the court, should it be necessary to commence a county court action.

 

Therefore I require you to refund me a total of £3000, representing the total, unlawful amount which you have levied from the aforementioned credit card account during the period xxxxxxxxxxxx.For your convenience I am again attaching a spreadsheet with the charges, I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the xxxxxxxxxx

I hereby give you a further 14 days to reply accepting my request and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment, preferably in the form of a cheque, for the full requested amount. For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within 14 days, I will commence my claim in my local county court without further warning. This action will inevitably involve you in additional costs (court fees, your solicitors fees, claimed statutory interest etc).

I will expect that the monies will not be placed back in my credit card account as it is now closed and as I will be exercising my first right of appropriation for these funds. If you are uncertain of what this means then please contact your legal team.

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Wait for the 14 days to expire - then send LBA ;)

Can't find what you're looking for? Please have a look at Michael Browne's

A-Z Guide

*** PLEASE NOTE ***

I do not answer queries via PM. If you send me a PM, please include a link to your thread - any advice I am able to offer will be on your thread.

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If U gave them 14 days...WAIT 14 days!!

 

 

But why... they have allready replied ! ? I can see why I should wait 14 days after the lba as i said that i will take them to court . but the prelim states that ' ...you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect'' they have not responded positevely within this time period and thus i will give them a letter before action giving them a further 24 days in which to reflect.

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If you have given 14 days for your bank to refund your charges the courts may state that you are being unreasonable by commuting the given period by starting action before the period has elapsed. Remember you are the one that is trying to demonstarate that you are acting in good faith.

 

If you do not keep to your word if give nationwides solicitors grounds to procrastinate and delay in repaying your charges. Just read some of our threads. Nationwide are one of the worst Institutions for acting unreasonably.

 

Be patient and follow the guidance and you will win through.

 

All the best

 

DP1

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Hi carolineiam!

 

Don't wait 14 days then + see what happens!

But as DARLOPONTY1 has said, it doesn't pay to rush these things.

 

CPR 1 explains further...

PART 1 - OVERRIDING OBJECTIVE

 

Do U REALLY want to risk your Claim being Stayed, or even Struck Out!!!

...Just cos U didn't want to wait a couple more days??!

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Hi carolineiam!

 

Don't wait 14 days then + see what happens!

But as DARLOPONTY1 has said, it doesn't pay to rush these things.

 

CPR 1 explains further...

PART 1 - OVERRIDING OBJECTIVE

 

Do U REALLY want to risk your Claim being Stayed, or even Struck Out!!!

...Just cos U didn't want to wait a couple more days??!

 

 

fair enough thanx for this advice and your patience ... in the 14 days shall I include weekends or do i just count 14 working days ! ?

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