Jimbo_the_Jetset vs Lloyds TSB

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Hello.

Before I start, I think this site is absolutely invaluable. Thanks to everyone out there, especially those who first trod the path the rest of us are following.

 

A brief synopsis of my claim to date before a couple of questions for anyone who has experience of dealing with LLOYDS TSB:

 

06/02/07 Letter sent by ME requesting list of charges under Data Protection Act

 

06/03/07 Second Letter from ME requesting list of charges under Data Protection Act [there had been no reply]

 

06/03/07 Letter from LLOYDS TSB claiming charges were fair and referring me to OFT etc.

 

26/04/07 Statements received from LLOYDS TSB.

 

30/04/07 Letter sent by ME requesting £2158 be returned to me in unfair charges over previous 6 years etc.

 

16/05/07 [LBA] Letter Before Action from ME [threatening legal action unless monies returned within next 14 days

 

23/05/07 Letter from LLOYDS TSB offering 'full and final settlement' of £750 in lieu of charges.

 

29/05/07 £750 'Goodwill gesture' deposited in my account.

 

Q. The £750 deposited in my account arrived the day after I received the letter dated 23/05/07, in other words, before I had time to reject it. I understand that this scenario has faced others before me. So, can anyone with experience tell me, what is the best means of approaching the situation now? Should I go direct to court? If the £750 is not retracted from my account should I account for this in my legal claim i.e., claim £2158-£750 [£1408]?

 

Many thanks

[BARTY]

Hi

Firstly I would send them a letter from here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejection-settlement-offer.html

Then start the Court claim for the amount they owe you less the £750. They won't take it back.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Barty:)

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Thank you Barty. Very helpful.

 

Q2. I am about to begin the court process using the online process. In the letters I have sent to Lloyds TSB to date I have claimed any interest due on unfair charges, but I am led to believe from other posts that at this point in the game it is normal/acceptable to add 8% statutory interest on the charges from the point they were debited [using an online calculator]. Could anyone confirm/disconfirm this? Would my not having requested interest before entering the court process be viewed negatively by the courts?

[GuidoT]

You should not be claiming statutory interest until you file your claim. Easier to use this spreadsheet and not on line calculator:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/Spreadsheets/England/Simple-charges-calc.xls

 

Ensure you are familiar with these:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Hi guys.

Thanks very much for your help so far. I've a couple of further queries.

 

Today [30/05/07] I contacted Lloyds about the 'goodwill payment' of £750. They acknowledged that it does not preclude legal action but stated that they would not be entering further negotiation.

 

So... I begin my legal case [via MCOL] tomorrow.

 

Q1. Should I minus the £750 from the amount I am claiming? I know that Barty above suggests exactly this but to do this seems complicated with regard to the fact that the interest that is calculated on charges [s.69 of CC Act 1984] relates to each specific charge. So, how do I go about demonstrating this in my claim? Would claiming the balance in the claim itself and a line at the bottom of my schedule indicating £750 received [and therefore to be taken off the accumulated amount suffice? Help welcome please!

[GuidoT]

Yes minus the £750.

 

I would just use the £750 to cancel out the most recent charges that eqaute to that sum, that way it has the least impact on your interest sum claimed. Show your calculations so that the £750 does not inadvertantly get deducted again when invariably the matter settles.

 

In case you are not aware and as you will file using MCOL send 2 copies of your schedule of charges, clearly marked with your claim no. and a brief covering letter asking for them to be filed as below:

 

The Court Manager,

Money Claim On Line

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

Dear Sir

 

(Your Name) –v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of penalty charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim.

Yours faithfully

 

Wait until you receive the Notice of Acknowledgement (not the Notice of Issue) from the court and then send a copy to the bank’s solicitors, since they are the ones who will now be dealing with your claim

Your faithfully

 

Dear Sir

 

(Your Name) -v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

 

Please find enclosed a copy of my schedule of charges relating to the above claim.

Yours faithfully

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Thanks GuidoT!

 

I claimed via MCOL today and am about to send of the schedule to be attached to my claim. Just one small query to anyone who may know.

 

Q. Is the Date of Issue referred to the date on which you submit your Money Claim On Line or another date on which the court processes it/begins the process?

[GuidoT]

Date of Issue is not the date you submitted your MCOL, but the date of deemed service, I think 2 days after you submit. It is of no real consequence, but good to see you are being careful.

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Hello everyone

 

Having submitted my claim by MCOL and sent the schedule to the court the following has appeared

'Acknowledged' (15/06/07)

'Defence' (18/06/07) [i wonder if this mean that Lloyds have submitted their defence or only that they intend to defend the case?]

 

Assuming Lloyds are defending...

Could anyone give me a rough and ready sketch of the next few steps? I've seen the new strategy for filling out the AQ questionnaire but, I notice from many posts that many courts are currently dispensing with them.

 

Could anyone tell me how long it normally is before the courts write back to say where the case will be heard etc?

 

Is a pre-hearing/review likely? Would it require the same level of preparation - i.e., court bundle

 

Thanks very much in advance.

 

PS: I understand that 'nudge letters' might be sent to Lloyds in an attempt to get them to settle. Are there any other techniques of achieving this??

[GuidoT]

Lloyds will defend.

 

Once you receive a notice that you AQ is being dispensed with and your claim is transferred you should send the New Strategy Order, see here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80091-your-court-dispensing-allocation.html?highlight=dispensed+AQ

 

You should hear from the court in around 6 weeks, but this can vary considerably contingent on how busy the court is.

 

At an estimate preliminary hearings occur in about 20% of cases, see here regarding the different level of preparation:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

 

Nudge letters will do no harm, but a waste of time, Lloyds will settle in their own time.

 

It is difficult to predict what is going to happen as it depends on the court you are transferred to. You will be transferred to your local court, which one is that?

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Thanks again GuidoT!

 

My local court will be Swansea [or the nearest one to it].

[Layla_ck]

Just subscribing! Good Luck!!

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Hello everybody,

 

After a spell of exams - when I'd almost completely forgotten about my case - the following has now finally happened:

 

27/06/07 Notice of Transfer of Proceedings following Lloyds Defence [AQ dispensed with]

 

Lloyds defence consists of 10 points.

i) Reference in point 3 is made to a leaflet whereby the terms of Lloyds charging for the service provided etc are laid out. Is this leaflet the T&C?

ii) Ref point 4: there is no breach of contract therefore the charge is not a penalty etc.

iii) Point 10: "The defendant has paid the claimant the sum of £750 as a gesture of goodwill. The particulars of claim do not disclose whether the sum already claimed has been taken into account by the claimant" - I have illustrated this payment [and its effect on calculations] in the schedule I sent to both court and bank. Are SC&M playing silly b*ggers?

 

17/07/07 Notice of Allocation or Listing Hearing - scheduled 10/08/07.

 

I've seen some notes about the level of preparation required [thanks GuidoT!] and am glad I don't need the full court bundle, but I have a couple of further questions if anyone is able to answer.

 

1) Should I send the Draft Order for Directions as per this site in advance of the allocation hearing? [note: I haven't sent one as yet - have I left it too late?]

 

2) Do I need to pay anything to the court in advance of this hearing?

 

3) What is usually decided at an allocation hearing? Do Lloyds usually settle in advance of them? Can I get a ruling in my favour at the hearing?

 

Is there anyone out there who has gone through the process who might be able to give me a word or two of advice?

 

Any advice very welcome.

[GuidoT]

Defence sounds like usual nonsense.

 

1) See the first link as my post 10 above.

 

2) Yes usually, but phone your court to check.

 

3) At an allocation hearing what is decided is which track to allocate the claim to. When Lloyds settle is a bit random, but they usually settle prior to hearings, including allocation. Again read the second link in post 10 above.

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Thanks again GuidoT,

 

27/07/07 Draft Order directions sent

 

I guess its a bit late now for the Draft Order to influence the case before the allocation hearing - but I guess if I was able to persuade the judge to order them at this hearing then it might speed things along.

 

Have sent a copy to SC&M along with a nudge to remind them that they are in court on 10 August!

 

I will print out all the material advised for prelinminary hearings.

 

Q. Do I need to send the court and SC&M a copy of everything I will have with me [and may rely on] at the hearing as you would with the court bundle?

 

Q. If Lloyds don't show - anyone know the likely way the case will progress?

[GuidoT]

Yes copy in SCM.

 

If Lloyds are a no show it is likely the case will just proceed.

 

Be prepared for a potential stay though in view of this:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/107584-oft-test-case-what.html

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Thanks,

 

If the court orders a stay at my allocation hearing, will it be possible to challenge it [strike out] or will everything be in stasis until that case is decided or otherwise?

 

I am a little confused by the fact that the banks - who have avoided going to court for so long - now appear to want the test case.

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

So...just to check. Are my main objectives at this allocation hearing;

 

1) to have the case assigned to the small claims or fast track system?

2) to have the Draft Order for directions enforced?

 

Is there anything else I might aim to achieve in court at this stage?

 

And.. would I be able to challenge a stay [set aside] if Lloyds ask for one?

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Sorry if I seem to be going in circles here -

But could anyone give me the low down on how to behave in court during an allocation hearing and what I should be trying to persuade the judge exactly?

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Hello..... .......... .........

er, anyone?

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

31/07/07 - Conversation with SC&M. I asked them what their intentions were prior to my allocation hearing on 10/08/07 and if they'd like to settle. They told me that in light of the test case they would be suspending the claim.

[ps: they were very straightforward and polite to my surprise].

 

They didn't exactly confirm that they would be aplying for a stay and I will still go to the hearing etc, but perhaps this can be assumed.

 

So...

Q1. Does anyone have any good material re: challenging a stay in this situation? As others on this site have noted, there have been many stays applied for in the past based on potential test cases that have come to nothing? Can I use this in an argument before the judge? Does the fact this appears to be a much bigger case make the critical difference?

 

Q2. How long does a stay [if granted] last? Is there a set number of months, with renewals, or could it be just as long as the test case lasts for example?

 

Q3. Has anybody successfully challenged a stay from the bank made on similar grounds in the past?

 

Any help with these and the above queries GREATLY appreciated.

[GuidoT]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html#post1046820

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

I'm in your debt again GuidoT!

 

By the way - anyone got an allocation hearing

Swansea the 10th August?

[Jimbo_the_Jetset]

Hello

 

Anyone know how to claim costs and if it is appropriate to add it to your claim at the allocation hearing stage?

[GuidoT]

If you claim costs, this is done when your claim is concluded, see here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/65921-application-costs-updated.html