Natwest Terms and conditions

[jhamb]

Hi StevePm

 

Thanks for the statement of evidence. I have now included this with my bundle. Do I have to put a copy of the Robinson v Harman which is cited in the statement? I have copies of all the others ie Dunlop etc.

 

Sorry to keep asking so many questions but you seem to know your stuff! Do you know anything about adding charges which account has incurred since claim was put in? I am pasting a copy of my letter going to court and Cobbetts which is going with my bundle. Do you think this ok. I am sending out my bundles tomorrow so just need to tie up a few loose ends then its in the hands of the gods - or judges as they are properly known!!!!

 

Thanks again for your help so far - JayneG

 

Letter to Cobbetts..............

 

 

Name of claimant and address

 

 

 

 

County Court

 

30 May 2007

 

 

Dear Sir

 

Claimant: *******

No. *******

Defendant: NatWest Bank

 

Please find court bundle for hearing on 4 July 2007.

 

PLEASE NOTE:

 

The last statement received from the defendant was 31 January 2007. Despite numerous requests by telephone to the bank and having to pay a further £5 [£10 fee already paid when initially requested bank statements in January 2007] when requesting up to date statements, none have to date been received from the bank. Neither has a letter dated 1st May [and faxed and resent by guaranteed next day delivery on 10 May] been acknowledged or replied to by the bank or Cobbetts Solicitors.

 

The claimant is therefore unsure how many further charges have been incurred on the account. However, the claimant has been advised by phone that a further £140.00 charges have been put on the account up to the end of March [as stated the claimant has been unable to obtain further statements from the defendant and therefore cannot confirm this amount or whether it may be lower or higher than that confirmed by NatWest].

 

The claimant has also had to pay a further £100 allocation fee.

 

Therefore, in addition to the charges and costs already stated on the claim a further £240 to today’s date, less interest, has been incurred by the claimant.

 

IE:

 

Charges to 31 January 2007 £2076.40

Interest to 31 January 2007 £ 251.40

Court fee £ 120.00

Allocation fee £ 100.00

Recorded delivery post £ 13.28

Further charges from 31.12.07 £ 140.00

 

TOTAL CLAIM to date £2701.08

 

No further interest has been added to the above sum since 31 January 2007.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

………………………………

**************

[Skeletor]

I wrote to my local Natwest branch three weeks ago asking for all the relevant terms and conditions for my current account for the last six years. No reply from them as yet but I'll post them here if/when I get them.

[steven4064]

I received the T&Cs from 2002 this morning - will post them when I've scanned them

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

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[bally35]

I know someone who has requested (verbally) a copy of all the T&C from the date their account opened.

The person in head office replied that it would be impossible, since they themselves do not have them since t&c change so regularly.

Now I undertand that for compliance issues, they must retain these (at very least six years).

Also if Banks are unable to provide customers on request for say last six years T&C and they are unable to provide them , then surely it must follow that their argument about the "t&C relating to you account blah blah" falls flat on its rather large behind, since thay are unable to provide them or know what they were throughout the life of an account.

Either they do have them , which means that they are lying and not complying to SAR, hich I feel should now include requests for T&C ( in which case the inforamtion comissioner should get a wee shout) or they dont have them and are not complying with rules regarding the retention of these (hmm info commisioner again), and their "legal" raguments arent worth diddly

[steven4064]

Terms and Conditions for May 2002

 

The pdf version scanned from Current Plus, Current Account & Step Account Terms and Conditions

NWB1795 May 2002 is available here

 

Also here is some text based on the May 2002 T&Cs that you could use in a Statement of Evidence to demonstrate that the 'Fees' are penalties:

 

 

 

On page 4 it says:

 

Terms and Conditions for NatWest personal Current Accounts

 

B All Accounts

….. You must always ensure that you have enough cleared money in your account by 3:30pm on the working weekday before:

you give out cheques

standing orders or direct debits are due to be paid

you withdraw money from a cash machine

you use switch or solo

you request us to make payments by electronic means.

 

If sufficient cleared money is not in your account by 3:30pm on the previous working weekday, then your cheques, standing order, direct debits, cash machine, switch, soloor other transactions may not be paid. …

 

Fees

Full details of our fees, and when they may be applied, are given in ‘A Guide to Personal Current Account Fees’.

 

Page 5 it says:

 

C Overdrawn Account

Overdrafts are only available for current account customers if you … have arranged this first with your Branch….. If you do not have an arrangement, we may charge you an extra fee and interest at our rate for unarranged borrowing according to our published tariff. If your account does not have enough cleared money to cover an amount you want to take out we may:

refuse to let you take the money out; or

close the account

 

The Leaflet “A Guide to Personal Current Account Fees” effectively forms part of these Terms and Conditions and says that in the event that sufficient cleared money is not in the account as described in B above, the result will be a charge.

 

The Claimant contends that these Terms require that, in the proper running of the Account, sufficient funds (including any agreed overdraft facility) must be maintained in the account to cover withdrawals or the result will be a charge. (It should be noted that this Condition applies even in cases over which the customer has no control, eg the paying of a Direct Debit where the payment date and amount are controlled by the payee or even in some circumstances by the bank itself.)

 

Further, the Claimant contends that, although these charges are referred to as “Fees”, the Terms and Conditions are a clear statement that a charge will be imposed if the customer breaks the requirement that sufficient funds be in the account on the previous working day to any withdrawal. The term itself sets out that the charge arises purely on the occurrence of the event and, as such, is a penalty or default charge rather than a fee for operating the account.

Steven

 

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[stevepm]

Steven

 

Thanks for these just what Cobbetts need Oops sorry I mean dont need.

 

StevePM

[Garforth]

Steven,

 

Many thanks - this is very helpful.

 

Have you (or anyone for that matter) incorporated anything like this into their witness statement?

 

It looks mighty appropriate to do so.

 

G

[steven4064]

I did for a GE claim but then they settled before I had to submit my court bundle. I am preparing one for NatWest and I will certainly be putting the above text in (or something based on it) and I shall be doing one based on 2001 business account T&Cs for my own NW claim if it gets that far.

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

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[steven4064]

I have created a simple web site here for the various Nat West T&Cs I have. I have also put a file detailing why the charges are penalties which can be used in a statement of evidence.

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

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[stevepm]

Steven

 

thanks for these just what the cobbie ordered

or not

 

 

StevePM

[jhamb]

HELP! I sent off my bundle on Thursday as my hearing is 4July. I think I have included the incorrect terms and conditions. Is it too late to amend this and send the correct ones. I picked up Terms and Conditions from the site but now realise they were for business account - HELP!!!

[steven4064]

I would ring the court and ask. When are the bundles due in? My court says 3 days before the hearing date, but others have been told 14 days. Either way, you have plenty of time before the 4 July.

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

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[jhamb]

I would ring the court and ask. When are the bundles due in? My court says 3 days before the hearing date, but others have been told 14 days. Either way, you have plenty of time before the 4 July.

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

15 June due in!

 

I think account was opened approx 2001 ish. Can you point me in right direction for these T&C and I will ring the court tomorrow and ask if I can amend the bundle before Friday Cheers JayneG. Cant believe Iv messed up at this late stage - what an idiot!!!

[steven4064]

I've got some May 2002 ones. That's the nearest I've got. You could always write to Cobbetts and ask for the correct ones "under CPR pre-action protocol 4.6©". Haven't you got until about the 20th to get the bundle in?

 

BTW - I have just checked the latest (2006) T&Cs for personal current accounts and business accounts and the bits that relate charges ('operations on the account" and "overdrafts" are esentially identical - the business account one omits "if you are aged over 18" from the overdrafts bit)

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[jhamb]

I've got some May 2002 ones. That's the nearest I've got. You could always write to Cobbetts and ask for the correct ones "under CPR pre-action protocol 4.6©". Haven't you got until about the 20th to get the bundle in?

 

BTW - I have just checked the latest (2006) T&Cs for personal current accounts and business accounts and the bits that relate charges ('operations on the account" and "overdrafts" are esentially identical - the business account one omits "if you are aged over 18" from the overdrafts bit)

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Thanks for that - feel a bit better now but do you think I should still amend and send in the correct T&C? I have been counting 14 "working" days for the bundles to be in which is this Friday 15th? Cheers for your help JayneG

[jhamb]

Hi Steven4064

 

Just an update. Called the court as you suggested and they said no problem just send in letter with replacement T&C and amended index and they will see it gets replaced. I am sending this out tomorrow - together with the same for Cobbetts. In view of the hearing being 4 July - do you suggest I still write to Cobbetts and ask them for T&C under CPR pre-action protocol 4.6© as, in the very unlikely event I received them, there wouldnt be time to put them with the bundle? Thanks again for your help JayneG

[steven4064]

do you suggest I still write to Cobbetts and ask them for T&C under CPR pre-action protocol 4.6© as, in the very unlikely event I received them, there wouldnt be time to put them with the bundle?

 

I would, even if only to keep the pressure on Cobbetts. You don't have to us them particlarly as the chance of Cobbetts producing a bundle and truning up in court is virtually zero. If they did produce a bundle, they may then put the appropriate T&Cs in theirs!!!

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site

[stevepm]

All

on th esubject of CPR 18 on Cobbies I ave not heard anything at this point in time they only have a few days left. If they do not deliver I am going to write to the court and request an early direction to either force them or have the defence thrown out.

 

StevePM

[jec]

Hedgey,

 

Where can I find on this forum t&c's relevant to my case (been with NW for over ten years)?

 

Many thanks in advane

Jec

[steven4064]

Jec

 

Do youhave a court date? If you have a couple of weeks, your best bet is to write to Cobbetts and ask them to provide a coy of the T&Cs applicable at the time you opened your accoun"t pursuant to CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©" You should get tham in a few days.

 

When you get them, please could you copy them to me so I can add them to the link on the post above.

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site

[jec]

Thanks Steven

 

On my natwest thread Hedgey gave me your info letter to do the same. Mailed it last night for delivery Monday morning to Cobbetts.

 

Jec

[DrWu]

Hey guys

 

I have a problem -I opened my account in 1995 and can't fine the terms and conditions. I also need to get my bundle back in a couple of days, so I don't think i've got time to request them.

 

Should I include them? If so, should I put the most current ones, or ones from 2000 ( when i'm claiming from) ?

 

If I do include terms and conditions that aren't the originals, should i mention this in the statement of evidence?

 

Thanks a lot guys.

 

Aaron

[jec]

DrWu

 

I had the same problem as you my account was opened 1992. I wrote to Cobetts and NatWest using the protocol letter steven described above, they won't give me the tand cs back, just ignoring my letters. Lets ask a moderator to advise.

 

Jec

[DrWu]

Moderators please advise!

[Dino404]

Hi. I'm in search of my T&C. My statements show i have a Current Plus account which i would have opened in 2003. Where am i able to find T&C for this? As they are always changing their T&C i'm not sure what would be most relevent for me?

 

Thanks