Advice on Partial CCJ on Egg debt

[Moebius]

Hello CAGsters,

 

I am currently repaying an old credit card debt to Egg of about £4000(Their figures).

Bryan Carter solicitors registered a CCJ against me on 5th December for £283 and court costs of £50 even though I was paying them an agreed amount £36.18, I missed 2 payments and by the time I had started them again they were half way through a Court Summons. I wrote to them with payment assuming that would stop the court action. (Big mistake - lesson learnt) The situation is that I have CCJ against me now that I never replied to.

I am paying £50 per month(As per court agreement) at the moment and I need to make 2 more payments to settle the CCJ.

 

I sent a Data Protection Act request letter to Egg on 27th April to find out what charges I have recieved and I hope to put the account in dispute due to unlawful charges when the CCJ is satisfied. Am I allowed to do this even afer a CCJ?

 

Also will it be worth me asking for my CCA agreement, even after a court has ruled?

 

I cannot understand why they only asked for a partial amount.(They give themsleves the option to come back for the rest of the debt)

 

I would like to know what courses of action will be open to me now as this will be the biggest debt left once my other bank charge reclaiming actions are completed.

 

Also as Bryan has ceased trading does that affect my situation in any way?

 

Regards

Moebius

(I am not sure which is more expensive - Marriage or Divorce? Still - If it doesn't kill you......)

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

Try to get the CCJ set aside first - there are various reasons this can be allowed - Google around and find the one most applicable to you;). You should definitely CCA and SAR because smEgg probably won't have an enforceable agreement and will have applied unlawful charges to your account. Also I believe even if they have a CCJ but can't produce a copy of the agreement you can sue them for what you have already paid. PM Laiste she is the expert on this sort of thing.

[meshi]

I have been looking into this matter further quering the leaglity of a partial debt CCJ.

 

I have been informed that it is against the civil procedure rules to keep on bringing you back to court for the same debt, and the judge should dismiss any further claims for debt.

 

I have also been told that it breaches the overiding principles of the rules and also that it is a breach of human rights as you can keep not been tried for the same contract and 1 whole debt more than once.

 

Does laiste or anyone have comment on what Ive been told

 

I have also been infomed that it is a breach of process to keep on sending out more than 1 ccj for the same debt so as to avoid going fast track or paying higher fees.

[Moebius]

Thanks for your reply, that is very interesting.

 

Does anyone else have information on the legality of CCJ's for partial amounts? I understand that Egg usually have compliant CCA forms so any avenue I can use to bargain with for my future repayments will be greatfully appreciated.

 

In Bryan Carters letter to me letter to me they assume that I will keep paying the amount the court agreed beyond the date the judge gave me.

 

I am awaiting statements so that I can see the charges and as soon as I have settled the CCJ I will request the credit agreement.

 

Thanks Meshi and payingonlyencouragesthem

Regards

Moeb

[Moebius]

Summary of Question.

Do any of the experienced guys on here know if I can be taken to court twice for the same debt?

 

Summary of situation. Egg Credit Card £4300k owing.

Bryan Carter agreed to my repayments so i didn't defend or reply to a court action.

The judge registered a ccj of about £280 + court costs and Bryan Carter reserved the right to take me to court again in the future for the rest of the debt in his POC! At this rate I could have 10 ccjs before I get the debt repaid. I have requested my statements which will have some charges and I will request my Credit agreement when this CCJ is satsfied.

 

I have been paying them my agreed payment and topping it up to meet the court order - there is one more payment to make until I have settled the CCJ but I will then still be left with £3900 owing.

 

The particulars of claim state -

The claimant claims £280, such sum being part of a debt due under an agreement number "The Agreement " whereby the defendant agreed to pay the claimant £4300 "The Debt"

 

For the avoidance of doubt in making this claim for a part of the debt the claimant does not wave any rights as to the balance of the debt , which the claimant continues to owe to the claimant under the agreement. The claimant reserves the right to make further claim for such sums of the debt as remain outstanding.

 

My employer does not like it's staff to have ccjs but due to my circumstances "divorce +other stuff" they cut me some slack, however

if I keep getting taken to court I could possibly lose my job.

 

Regards

Moebius (sorry it is so long winded)

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

Meshi is right but if you didn't point this out at any subsequent hearing BC's case would be waived through ie they are counting on your ignorance.

[Moebius]

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

Would anyone happen to have any case law or details or precedents that I can use in future correspondence or court hearings.

 

I do not doubt either of you (Your knowledge is priceless to me) but I want to arm myself with as much as I can to fight any future legal action.

 

When I know how much my charges are this information will help me battle to get my charges knocked off my total.

 

Thanks so much to both Meshi and payingonlyencouragesthem.

 

One further thought is does this apply to just the DCA Bryan Carter or could Egg as the debt owner apply via another company?

[meshi]

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

Would anyone happen to have any case law or details or precedents that I can use in future correspondence or court hearings.

 

I do not doubt either of you (Your knowledge is priceless to me) but I want to arm myself with as much as I can to fight any future legal action.

 

When I know how much my charges are this information will help me battle to get my charges knocked off my total.

 

Thanks so much to both Meshi and payingonlyencouragesthem.

 

One further thought is does this apply to just the DCA Bryan Carter or could Egg as the debt owner apply via another company?

 

I think it comes under the civil procedure rules under part 1 overriding objectives and 3.4. im not sure but my adviser was good. Only the creditor can take you to court and once its heard then that's it. Bryan carter has mucked up big time only claiming a part debt. If he tries to take it to court again point out that the matter has already gone before the court.

I was also informed under common law and the human rights act that you can only be tried by a court of law once for something.

 

here is a link for some light reading

 

CPR - Parts and Practice Directions

[meshi]

Meshi is right but if you didn't point this out at any subsequent hearing BC's case would be waived through ie they are counting on your ignorance.

 

yes thats what the adviser said to me.

[meshi]

Summary of Question.

Do any of the experienced guys on here know if I can be taken to court twice for the same debt?

 

Summary of situation. Egg Credit Card £4300k owing.

Bryan Carter agreed to my repayments so i didn't defend or reply to a court action.

The judge registered a ccj of about £280 + court costs and Bryan Carter reserved the right to take me to court again in the future for the rest of the debt in his POC! At this rate I could have 10 ccjs before I get the debt repaid. I have requested my statements which will have some charges and I will request my Credit agreement when this CCJ is satsfied.

 

I have been paying them my agreed payment and topping it up to meet the court order - there is one more payment to make until I have settled the CCJ but I will then still be left with £3900 owing.

 

The particulars of claim state -

The claimant claims £280, such sum being part of a debt due under an agreement number "The Agreement " whereby the defendant agreed to pay the claimant £4300 "The Debt"

 

For the avoidance of doubt in making this claim for a part of the debt the claimant does not wave any rights as to the balance of the debt , which the claimant continues to owe to the claimant under the agreement. The claimant reserves the right to make further claim for such sums of the debt as remain outstanding.

 

My employer does not like it's staff to have ccjs but due to my circumstances "divorce +other stuff" they cut me some slack, however

if I keep getting taken to court I could possibly lose my job.

 

Regards

Moebius (sorry it is so long winded)

 

bryan carter done the same thing to me representing the royal bank of scotland.

 

I have sent in my defence.

 

Either way whether I win or lose he is in for the high jump. This guy thinks he can do what he likes. and hes a solicitor as well.

[Moebius]

That's great Meshi thanks for your reply.

 

Good luck with your case and please let us know how you get on.

 

I'm sure all of us on here are wishing you the best of luck.(I Certainly am!)

 

Moebus

 

P.s what sort of adviser do you have?

[Moebius]

Hi,

 

I'm hoping someone can give me an idea of where to go from here.

 

I have an egg credit card where I owe around £4k, they have just sent me a proper looking Credit Agreement although there are no terms and conditions. Does that make it invalid?

 

They have charged me £460 in late / overlimit and unpaid DD fess and there are Credit Card Repayment Protector charges amounting to £475.59.

How do I go about challenging these?

 

I have paid £300 back satisfying a CCJ that the solicitors brought against me for part of the debt.

I understand that they cannot take me to court again for this debt.

 

What sould I do now? Or at least what should I do next.

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

Tell them that you have already settled the matter in court and don't wish to correspond any further on the matter. If they try to take you back to court PM me and I'll post a viable response on the forum.

[rory32]

Would anyone happen to have any case law or details or precedents that I can use in future correspondence or court hearings.

 

 

Bhamjee v Forsdick [2003] EWCA Civ 799

 

Grepe v Loam

 

You may also wish to read the following:

http://www.ffw.com/documents/publications/Dispute_resolution/employerslaw_nov2003_gibson.pdf

 

Page 4 is of particular interest.

[Moebius]

Thankyou to Rory32 and payingonlyencourages them.

 

My understanding is that if they try and take me to court again the fact that they would be doing this for a second time on the same debt means I could get the judge to throw the claim out. Is that correct?

 

However if I take this stance they are still going to process credit information about me and chase me for the money.

 

Should I still be offering a monthly repayment to try and ultimately get rid of the debt and clean up my credit record?

 

Thanks again for you knowledge and help.

[Moebius]

See above post please. (Cheeky little bump to try and get an answer)

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

Thankyou to Rory32 and payingonlyencourages them.

 

My understanding is that if they try and take me to court again the fact that they would be doing this for a second time on the same debt means I could get the judge to throw the claim out. Is that correct?

 

However if I take this stance they are still going to process credit information about me and chase me for the money.

 

Should I still be offering a monthly repayment to try and ultimately get rid of the debt and clean up my credit record?

 

Thanks again for you knowledge and help.

 

Wouldn't bother with payments - it didn't help last time.Just wait and see if they try to take you to court again - when it gets thrown out it will come off your credit report.

[Moebius]

Bryan Carter supplied a copy of my Egg Card agreement - 2 scanned pages with signature on 1 page their signature on the day before mine!

No T&Cs which I believe makes it unenforceable unless through a court. And they can't take me to court again for a second time for the same debt?(They took me to court previously for 10% which is now satisfied - I am awaiting reply from court to confirm)

 

I have just recieved a letter from Bryan Carter and Co saying that I have failed to honour my £50 per month payment.

 

Any suggestions on the best tactic to use now? Should I say no T&C's sent so you have not complied with section 78, you can't take me to court so what are you going to do? Or should I play my cards closer to my chest and just say account in dispute due to no T&C's? (As they cannot take me to court again I guess they will go Ape at me. Possibly taking me to court anyway hoping I will not contest.)

 

I aim to send letter guaranteed post tomorrow and want to check I am doing the right thing before I send it.

 

What I would be happy to achieve is for them to reduce my balance by the charges, PPI and interest and accept a reasonable monthly payment.

 

A 2ND CCJ could be disastrous for my job and I am a little nervous of how I would fight them in court.

 

Regards

Moebius

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

s35 of the County Courts Act 1984 states

“

It shall not be lawful for any plaintiff to divide any cause of action for the purpose of bringing two or more actions in one or more of the county courts.”

 

Quote this piece of law to them and tell them to bog off. Don't give them any more money.

[Moebius]

Great,

 

Ok I will send them a letter quoting that piece of law.

 

Dears Sir / Madam,

acc ----------

 

I write in response to you letter dated -----

 

You have already taken me to court for this debt and you have written to me to acknowledge that I have satisfied this through the court.

 

I draw your attention to the s35 of the county courts act - 1984

 

It shall not be lawful for any plaintiff to divide any cause of action for the purpose of bringing two or more actions in one or more of the county courts.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now a question for you -

 

Any ideas how I should word the end of the letter? I would like to know what their future plans are now? And what will happen to these entries on my credit file?

 

Thanks POET

Regards

Moebius

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

Great,

 

Ok I will send them a letter quoting that piece of law.

 

Dears Sir / Madam,

acc ----------

 

I write in response to you letter dated -----

 

You have already taken me to court for this debt and you have written to me to acknowledge that I have satisfied this through the court.

 

I draw your attention to the s35 of the county courts act - 1984

 

It shall not be lawful for any plaintiff to divide any cause of action for the purpose of bringing two or more actions in one or more of the county courts.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now a question for you -

 

Any ideas how I should word the end of the letter? I would like to know what their future plans are now? And what will happen to these entries on my credit file?

 

Thanks POET

Regards

Moebius

 

"This being the case I regard the matter as closed. Please confirm that you have reset the balance on this account to zero and marked any entries on my credit file as satisfied."

 

I doubt you will have much luck getting the credit file amended but this should get the message through.

[Moebius]

Hello again,

 

just had a response saying that they want me to call them.

 

I don't want to speak to them on the phone, so I will send them yet another letter to explain.

 

They have put my account on hold for 10 days.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I wouldn't bother to explain. Just inform them that you have already set out your position quite clearly, and that you will only deal with the matter in writing.

[Moebius]

Thanks.

 

Yeah, no way I want to get involved in a phone argument with them.

 

I will send a letter Recorded delivery tomorrow.