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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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advice on legal rights for faulty new car


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Can anyone help me with this issue please? I bought a brand new peugeot 206cc on 1st Mar 2006, it was my 2nd 206cc so straight away I noticed that the roof wasn't fitting properly and the wind noise when driving was really bad. Anyway since then the car has been in the dealer about 15 times and its still not right, the roof now even leaks when you put it through a carwash and its only done 8000 miles. I've been waiting for peugeot to give me the figures for a deal on their new model, the 207cc, which they have done today. However they've only offered me 60% ish of the price I bought the car for last year as a trade in, thats over a 3rd deprecaition in less than a year and although they are offering a £1000 dicount on the new 207cc that means i'd have to pay out a whopping £6500 for a replacement vehicle. I feel sick, I cant believe that i have no come back at all, but they're saying that is a really good offer...HELP!!??

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If the car has been back numerous times for the same fault and they have failed to rectify it then you have given them ample opportunity to try. I would contact your local trading standards and I would also advise the dealer that the car is not fit for purpose and that you are taking the matter up with trading standards and see how they react to that.

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How did you buy the car?

 

Incidentally you have indeed given them more than reasonable opportunities to put this fault right and as they have failed to do so you should now be able to claim either:

 

- Replacement vehicle (like-for-like, same model, mileage etc, if this is possible)

 

or

 

- Rescission of the contract, they take back the car and give you a partial refund allowing for the wear and tear you have had from the vehicle.

 

You wouldn't be entitled to betterment, i.e. a brand new replacement or a replacement of a better specification.

 

I won't advise in full until I know how you paid, as this can make a difference.

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Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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Thanks for the responses so far, I have just spoken to the Hants Trading Standards Dept who have advised me to send their template letter for faulty goods and breach of contract due to unsatisfactory quality under the sale of goods act 1979; which I will prepare and send today/tommorrow.

 

In the meantime I bought the car by trading in a 2 year old version of exactly the same car and I paid the balance in cash, so any further advice related to that will be much appreciated.

 

As for a like for like replacement, I understand that but if they dont have one and I have to go for full and partial refund, how do I assess what is a reasonable reduction for a car 11 months old, with 8300 miles on the clock? It cost between £15-£16k, (need to dig out the paperwork and check exact figure) and they are offering £9.5k which is the book price and I dont think thats reasonable, plus the salesman freely admitted he would sell it on at about £12k. I know thats how the motor trade works but after all this hassle dont think they should be looking to make a further profit out of my custom a year on (a very stressful year!) I'm now thinking I should forget trade-in with them completely and go for a cash settlement.

 

I am so glad I have found some help on this, thanks guys!

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It's a hard one, rescission; ultimately only a judge can decide what constitutes a reasonable refund.

 

From my own point of view I would say that they should not expect to profit from the fact that they have sold you faulty goods. Therefore they should not offer you a partial refund which is any less than what the car is worth to them, if they re-sell it.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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On the issue of replacement like for like, if they cannot find one the same and offer you a newer model then you cannot be expected to pay the difference I believe.

 

Whilst this may be putting you in a better position than you are now that would not be your fault. They have other remedies which include partial refund.

 

Rosie is right about whats fair, but i would argue that book price selling out is your loss, not their buying in price.

 

The damages to you is the cost of having to replace the vehicle like for like at what you would have to pay i believe.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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That's right, if they can't offer you a like-for-like replacement and do offer you a different vehicle, they can't insist that you pay - however if rescission is a cheaper option for them they can insist that this is the course of action to follow and you can't demand a replacement if it's going to be more expensive for them than rescinding the contract, if that makes sense!

 

It would make sense to me to award you damages of whatever it would cost you to replace the car with a theoretically "identical" model.

 

If I were a judge that would indeed be my way of thinking, anyway.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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Izzy Wizz

 

I deliver these motors and this happens more than you would believe. Dont let them tell you that they cant source a particular make or model and dont put your hand in your pocket. I know of 3 cases where dealers have replaced Coup Cab cars thru dodgy roofs. Dealers will fob you off all the time because most people give in, but hang on in there and get a new car replacement from them. (After 1st march so you get the new plate!)

If you can read this, thank a teacher.

If you can read it in english thank a soldier.

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Izzy don't want to be a wet blanket but whilst you are certainly entitled to compensation for your loss of amenity when it was being repaired numerous times I don't think you will be entitled to a refund.

 

The problem is 1st that you kept the car too long You gave them too many opportunities to put it right causing time to pass.

 

2nd most new cars devalue to the tune of 1/3 as soon as they leave the showroom so the offer they have made might not be so bad. However now that you have involved TS I should press for more

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Izzy don't want to be a wet blanket but whilst you are certainly entitled to compensation for your loss of amenity when it was being repaired numerous times I don't think you will be entitled to a refund. I disagree at least in the sense that the OP is entitled to a like for like replacement.

 

The problem is 1st that you kept the car too long You gave them too many opportunities to put it right causing time to pass. I disagree the problem of the roof was that it was ill fitting, now a leak has developed. This means that the car is not fit for purpose. I have heard similar comments before and I think you are refeering to acceptance/rejection of the goods. im not certain if a new problem arises then its relevant. if the leaky roof isnt a 'new' problem you may have a point. be interested to see what Rosie thinks.

 

2nd most new cars devalue to the tune of 1/3 as soon as they leave the showroom so the offer they have made might not be so bad. If they are attempting to settle then they need to offer a like for like reaplcement, although not one with an ill fitting leaky roof.

However now that you have involved TS I should press for more

 

JMHO

 

glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Glenn I agree the car was not fit for purpose & didn't say they wouldn't be entitled to a like for like but they wouldn't be entitled to a full refund not after this length of time

 

Also I think the original fault referred to was a badly fitting roof which has now started to leak which can hardly be described as a new! problem. They may be entitled to claim additional compensation for the loss of use but I think they will have difficulty claiming more that 1/3rd for the car alone which is what is being offered

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Glenn I agree the car was not fit for purpose & didn't say they wouldn't be entitled to a like for like but they wouldn't be entitled to a full refund not after this length of time Ok but i thought we had got past that and the OP understood it was a like for like not full refund, perhpas i misunderstood somewhere.

 

Also I think the original fault referred to was a badly fitting roof which has now started to leak which can hardly be described as a new! problem. LOL well i guess its about degrees, the original complaint as i understood it was that the roof was noisy, now it leaks, we can argue the toss but its further degradation of the problem and imho changes the position.They may be entitled to claim additional compensation for the loss of use but I think they will have difficulty claiming more that 1/3rd for the car alone which is what is being offered

 

LOL we can agree to differ then i suppose but theres no harm done it wouldnt be any fun if we all agreed all the time would it.

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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I think we did already discuss that the OP can't reject for a full refund; the advice given was that as they had had a reasonable opportunity to repair the faulty roof and had failed to do so to a satisfactory standard, the options were now either a like-for-like replacement, or if such a car cannot be sourced, then rescisson of the contract which would be a refund to equal the cost of a like for like replacement.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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Yes, I think I'm with Rosie on this one. TS have advised me that I am entitled to a like for like replacement which the garage are trying to source. Apparantly if they cannot do that then I can reject the car and claim a 'full or partial refund' as I have given them ample opportunity to fix the problems. I'm not expecting a full refund but I will be expecting enough to purcahse a like for like replacement. i.e. I have asked for the retaill price for my car not the 'trade-in' price. I'll let you know how I get on when i hear more.

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Izzy then your missing the point. I'm NOT saying your not entitled to a 'like for like' what I am saying is that if the garage have offered you a replacement 1/3 less than you originaly paid then that IS 'like for like'

 

When you drove your new car out of the showroom it devalued by 1/3 so even if it was fault free it is now still only worth 2/3rd's of it's original purchase price

 

However if you didn't have use of a courtesy car from the dealer you may be able to claim for loss of use at about £10 per day or any other costs you may have incurred

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Mr FP

 

I think you are missing the point. Firstly this is not uncommon with Coup Cab type cars. As stated the car was bought new so izzzy needs to be hanging out for a new car replacement. I aint no legal eagle, i just deliver the things. What i can say is that your way of the mark with your monetary workings. Izzys car will go to another part of the country,(prob south coast as it has best coupe cab sales and prices) get fixed and be flogged at a grand less than new being 1 year old. Peugeot will take the hit on replacing the car not the dealer.

If it was a washing machine you would be saying take it back to the store and get it replaced, i dont see a difference.

In my view Izzy will get a "deal" out of the dealer. I was actually speaking today to a salesman who last year had replaced a 2yr old motor for a new car as they had had a recurruring fault for 18 months.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.

If you can read it in english thank a soldier.

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Mr FP

 

I think you are missing the point. Firstly this is not uncommon with Coup Cab type cars. As stated the car was bought new so izzzy needs to be hanging out for a new car replacement. I aint no legal eagle, i just deliver the things. What i can say is that your way of the mark with your monetary workings. Izzys car will go to another part of the country,(prob south coast as it has best coupe cab sales and prices) get fixed and be flogged at a grand less than new being 1 year old. Peugeot will take the hit on replacing the car not the dealer.

If it was a washing machine you would be saying take it back to the store and get it replaced, i dont see a difference.

In my view Izzy will get a "deal" out of the dealer. I was actually speaking today to a salesman who last year had replaced a 2yr old motor for a new car as they had had a recurruring fault for 18 months.

 

She may well be able to get a "deal" but legally she would only be entitled to a like-for-like replacement or a partial refund to cover purchasing a like-for-like replacement. Rescission of the contract (getting a refund after the initial rejection period, which is only a matter of weeks in most cases) is a partial refund to allow for any wear and tear that she may have enjoyed from the product, so that's what the letter of the law would cover.

 

I think we already established that anyway :)

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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She may well be able to get a "deal" but legally she would only be entitled to a like-for-like replacement or a partial refund to cover purchasing a like-for-like replacement. Rescission of the contract (getting a refund after the initial rejection period, which is only a matter of weeks in most cases) is a partial refund to allow for any wear and tear that she may have enjoyed from the product, so that's what the letter of the law would cover.

 

I think we already established that anyway :)

 

Hi Rosie

I was at a Pug Garages so i posed a few "what if" type questions to the sales manager. As i said i aint no legal eagle and this bloke wasn't either, he said they have guidelines from above to adhere to. I'm guessing some where up the food chain there is a legal type person who sets the guidelines.

Basically they he says that if a punter buys a new car and it develops a fault then under warranty it has to be fixed. The dealer will do this on a major fault (Izzys is a major fault) 3 times. If it goes again it then goes of to HQ where a top man technition has a butchers at it. If after that it it goes again then it would need replacing for a NEW car as the new car sold was unfit for purpose. The only real time guideline that they look at is the reporting of the first fault in the cars first year. They also say that if the car has some kind of finance on it then the customer is in a better position because the fin house bears some responsibility too??

I guess this is more of a shop floor explanation as opose to board room level but sometimes they work.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.

If you can read it in english thank a soldier.

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your missing the point oz

 

what 'might' be obtained from the garage isn't the same as saying what izzy's legal rights are. What the garage do over & above their legal obligations is upto them. If izzy obtian's a new car then great we are only advising on their legal rights & the dealers obligations

 

As for the rest of you scenario I can only comment that you haven't been around car manufactures for very long if you think that is the norm

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Hi All

 

Thanks for your contributions, very interesting what you're saying Oz. I had a letter from Peugeot Dealer yesterday saying they would look for like for like but can't guarantee there wouldnt be similar probelms (doesnt say much for their opinions of 206ccs does it!) They also said they were having trouble finding one (yeah ok). Anyway they've offerd me £11,500 but only if I part ex and they're still asking for £6.5k balance for a new 207cc (206cc is now defunct). I've said no I want like for like or £11.5 cash. I'd probably consider the trade in if they came down to around a £2k difference and given what you've said Ox, I will certainly not be tempted with anything less! I've given them 7 days to choose an option or I will engage legal rep, so again given what Oz is saying this is an option that if they force me down I'll go for it. I'm fed up with being treated like I'm stupid by salesmen because I'm a woman and yes I am blonde!!

 

By the way they did offer a couple of weeks ago to send it back to Peugeot and I said no, I've given them enough attempts to fix it (TS agree)! This week the creaking is back from the roof latch so I have a car one year old exactly that creaks, leaks and lets the wind rush in my ears!! NOT HAPPY!

 

Thanks guys, will keep you posted!

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Hi Guys, well Peugeot have agreed to find me a like for like replacement by 31st mar. Hoorah! They say if they are unable to source this then they will give me a refund equivalent to the trade price. Now obviously if they only give me the trade price for the car I woudn't be able to buy another car of an equivalent standard as I would be paying the retail price. Essentially if I bought the equivalent to my car from an independant garage (not a Peugeot dealer) I would pay around £11.5 k but they are offering me a trade price of £9.5k. Anyone know where I stand on this? I feel I should be able to claim the retail price for a new car otherwise I'm losing out as I wouldnt be able to get a car of equivalent age and standard as mine for £9.5k. I'm willing to push the issue and get some legal representation if I have a case for this. Rosie, your advice would be much appreciated please.

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If it comes to it, it is my opinion that they should refund you the retail price so you are able to purchase a like-for-like replacement.

 

Otherwise you are losing out by their failure to provide you with a like-for-like replacement, and that is not right - your rights should be comparable regardless of what remedy you accept.

 

I would advise that it is reasonable to expect them to pay you the retail price, and although I am not a judge I would be amazed if any judge found otherwise.

Please note I'm not insured in this capacity, so if you need to, do get official legal advice.

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