Willowb v RBS MINT CCA

[Guest willowb]

Hi peeps,

 

Here goes.....

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

I am presently striving to organise my personal information and can find no reference to the above agreement that I am presently paying money into. I require you to supply the following documentation:

 

Firstly, you must supply me with true copies of the agreements you refer to in these matters. This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to supply account statements. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee for the account.

 

I also require that you supply signed true copies of the deeds of assignment of the above referenced agreements.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that may be issued.

 

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

 

I'll let you know!

 

Wxxx

[Guest willowb]

They were in default on the 14th, they have until the 14th of March...tick tock.

 

Wxxx

[The Lantana]

Good luck Willowb. My CCA request was delivered to them yesterday. As you say 'Tick Tock'.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[Guest willowb]

You too hunny and thank you for subscribing, do you want to link your thread to me so that we can support eachother?

 

Wxxx

[FANTASY CHARGES]

You too hunny and thank you for subscribing, do you want to link your thread to me so that we can support eachother?

 

Wxxx

 

from what i've heard you will get a copy of the application form and a complements slip for the cca . full stop. no letter!

 

there will be no reference at all to the "executed agreement"

[The Lantana]

Lets not count our chickens!

[Guest willowb]

from what i've heard you will get a copy of the application form and a complements slip for the cca . full stop. no letter!

 

there will be no reference at all to the "executed agreement"

 

Hello peeps:)

 

Well, yes I received a copy of the agreement:( and a letter...

 

 

How can they say it will be £3 a statemtent? I wasn't asking for statements:confused: they are supposed to supply copies of running balances etc aren't they? d'oh (I do have statements as I did an SAR months ago, there was only one charge on it so I didn't pursue a claim)

 

Anyway, they still haven't sent me any terms and conditions either.

 

Seems I'm in the same boat here as I am with Abbey....hummmm:?:

 

Wxxx

[The Lantana]

That's interesting. I'll let you know what I get, when I get it.

 

I've been doing some research today. Ultimately the Secretary of State (SoS) has the power to make regulations (s180) as to what constitutes a copy (s189) under the act, and by complying with the regulations creditors comply with the act.

 

I haven't yet got a copy of the regs, but I'd be very surprised if your response fulfills their obligations.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Hello peeps:)

 

Well, yes I received a copy of the agreement:( and a letter...

 

 

How can they say it will be £3 a statemtent? I wasn't asking for statements:confused: they are supposed to supply copies of running balances etc aren't they? d'oh (I do have statements as I did an SAR months ago, there was only one charge on it so I didn't pursue a claim)

 

Anyway, they still haven't sent me any terms and conditions either.

 

Seems I'm in the same boat here as I am with Abbey....hummmm:?:

 

Wxxx

SINCE THEY are overworked they are not going to check things you have done or asked for earlier --- i think they have say 8 or 9 paragraphs of text stored -- they press "b" and say the second paragraph appears in the letter ---- quite often these letters from companies refer to matters you have not raised

 

the terms and conditions you get will of course be the "up to date ones""

 

then you write back asking for the ones when you actually opened the account

 

what year did you open the account ??

 

 

pm me if you like

 

 

sorry what do you mean by agreement ?

[Guest willowb]

Hi FC, I meant a copy of the signed 'original agreement'.

 

Can you link your thread so that I can have a look?

 

Thing is, I'm not convinced that a Judge would not enforce a debt because of their non-compliance over the full CCA requirements, the non production of the agreement, yes, but everything else? I'm not sure...

 

Wxxx

[Movingon]

The agreement is proof that the debt exists; however it is not proof of the amount outstanding. If you have been receiving statements on the account then refer to those; otherwise take the cheaper option: S AR for more than 3 statements you're missing, and copy statements at £3 a pop for 3 or less statements missing. Also, ask them to explain why they have not been sending you statements.

[Guest willowb]

Hi SL, good to see you:) I have a complete set of statements as I did an SAR some months ago, the on-going statements are sent to our DMC.

 

I've been reading your PM FC, thank you ever so much....

 

Quote Tamadus

Its my feeling an application shouldn't be considered as a regulated agreement under the CCA. I am certain (but cannot immediately find the detailed description of the form a regulated agreement should take) that the heading on the agreement should clearly state 'Credit Agreement' (or words to that effect).

What they sent me is a copy of the application form and I got my hopes up BUT it says underneath in very small writing 'regulated by the consumer credit act 1974'....bummer!

 

Wxxx

[Guest willowb]

what year did you open the account ??

1998

 

Wxxx

[Movingon]

Hi SL, good to see you:) I have a complete set of statements as I did an SAR some months ago, the on-going statements are sent to our DMC.

 

I've been reading your PM FC, thank you ever so much....

 

Quote Tamadus

 

What they sent me is a copy of the application form and I got my hopes up BUT it says underneath in very small writing 'regulated by the consumer credit act 1974'....bummer!

 

Wxxx

 

I'm not sure about this; I thought that the heading of a CCA had to be something like:

 

Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended)

 

I don't think I've ever seen one that isn't?

[Guest willowb]

Oh and one more thing, there isn't a 'creditor' signature.

 

In the bottom left hand corner is this....

 

which isn't in a proper 'signature box', and it just looks like a scribble to me....is this acceptable?

 

Wxxx

Gonna have to give up for now, got a stinking virus off pixie No2:(

Nite niteX

[Movingon]

I know for a fact that it must say, somewhere near the signature:

 

"This is a Credit Agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended). Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms."

 

And no - a "Properly Executed" agreement contains the signatures of BOTH PARTIES. That is not the bottom of a "Properly Executed" CCA and it doesn't appear to be a CCA at all because the ritual phrases are not present.

[Guest willowb]

Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Yes Tom that's what it says in it's entirety, sorry!

 

Wxxx

[Guest willowb]

(as amended).

It doesn't say that and it doesn't have a 'proper' box for the creditor's signature...is this looking hopeful for me?

 

Wxxx

[diskmandave]

Hi all,

 

Great thread, doing Mint (Advanta) myself at the mo'. I got a reply back in lightning time (didn't even default), but as described earlier in the thread what they've sent is a copy of the original application. The letter even says, "Please find enclosed a copy of your application for the account". No terms & conditions either. It's also strange that the recieved stamp at the top left and stamp at the bottom right are almost 3 full months apart.

 

 

Watching this thread with interest.

 

Regards, Dave.

[humbleman]

I CCA'd about 4 weeks ago, not heard anything from them at all

[Movingon]

Ahh - Willow if that's what you have, like diskmandave, I think it is a proper agreement; and if it contains your signature and like his a stamp and signature of the company representative, then it is a "Properly Executed" one.

 

If it contains NO signatures, or only ONE, then **it is not properly executed and will NOT stand up to court scrutiny**

 

I'm NOT SURE if the company signatory has to identify themselves with a name etc, or if they have to be authorised to sign. The "as amended" is really neither here nor there I'm afraid.

[The Lantana]

Mine's due tomorrow morning (initial 12 days). I'll update if/when I get it.

 

Regards

 

 

Lantana

[humbleman]

I got a reply from them this morning and have started my own thread (to avoid hijacking this thread)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/71723-last-mint-reply-cca.html

[Guest willowb]

I CCA'd about 4 weeks ago, not heard anything from them at all

Fingers crossed:)

 

Hi all,

 

Great thread, doing Mint (Advanta) myself at the mo'. I got a reply back in lightning time (didn't even default), but as described earlier in the thread what they've sent is a copy of the original application. The letter even says, "Please find enclosed a copy of your application for the account". No terms & conditions either. It's also strange that the recieved stamp at the top left and stamp at the bottom right are almost 3 full months apart.

 

 

Watching this thread with interest.

 

Regards, Dave.

Hi Dave, thank you for posting that, yes I see the little stamp with the sig on mine now...although it is mostly obscured by a thick black line, it is still half visable. The other thing I noticed is that there is no 'total credit' box, there are credit transfer amounts but no 'total sum of credit'....straws and clutching I know!!! lol anyway, they still haven't complied completely with the CCA request, there are no Ts and Cs or running balances, arrears, charges etc.....

 

Ahh - Willow if that's what you have, like diskmandave, I think it is a proper agreement; .

I know but I wonder if it is still enforceable? without providing anything else are they still breaking the Law? does it say anywhere, which part of the data is most important to supply? If they just provide the Ts and Cs it's unenforceable but if they just provide the agreement then it is? technicality I know....oh hum

 

Wxxx

[The Lantana]

Okay, strictly speaking, if they only sent you the agreement then they haven't complied with your s78 request - see the parts of s78 I've underlined below. You could write back, highlighting the outstanding information, and insist on their full compliance if you feel agrieved.

 

I can't say if this is a valid agreement or not, I'm just not that clued up yet.

 

Mint (and HSBC) were due to respond to me by today, I've had my post and nothing!

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

Lantana

 

 

 

 

Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

 

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.