Orange Mobile - Charge for non Direct Debit Payment

[BOF1951]

I have an Orange 'pay monthly' contract where two mobiles share the pre-purchased talk minutes. Each bill is split into the two telephones, showing minutes used, texts used etc. Within each 'seperate' itemised bill is a charge for not paying by Direct Debit. So effectively, I am paying this 'fee' twice.

 

Is this legal and/or, can I get Orange to stop the charge?

 

Regards,

Chris

[buzby]

Now that IS bad news, but it sounds as though the two accounts are simply 'linked' not that the mobiles share the same account number. Either way, I'd call 150 and complain. If they refuse to refund, state that you will challenge their imposition of this fee as a penalty, so they can either credit the amount, and remove it from further bills, or you will resort to court action for the fees to be refunded. It'll be their choice.

[BOF1951]

Thank you, I will go back to them on that theme. I did call 150 and complain, but that was before I found this site and I just accepted the rubbish they spouted! Never again!

 

Regards,

Chris

[buzby]

It's too early yet to hear if Orange refund without a fight and realise the customer HAS a choice. (To me it is a fundamental contract term, so they cannot charge this until the inital contract terms is complete) you can then give notice of your intention to leave.

[demonbiker]

Hi , new on here and looks like i could be in here alot for some of this good advice!

 

I have 2 phones on 1 account with orange - a talkshare, i used to pay by card over the phone , they stopped that! had to go to shop to pay bill and have DD charge taken off. Now stopped that too!

 

I have called customer services and asked why they charge me £3 per phone when i only get 1 bill?? there answer is its just the way it is - not good enough, seems you cannot avoid the DD charge unless you set up a DD , which i do not want to do as they have a habit of getting the bill wrong!

How can they force you to pay by DD? why cant i pay by card ??

Ive been with orange for about 10 yrs BTW

Really getting on my nerves!

[davethorp]

If you pay your bill in an orange shop I believe the non DD admin charge is credited to your account each month (unless orange have changed that recently too)

[buzby]

They do it because it is a useful source of additional revenue, and if you complain to the right beople it is credited without a murmur. With so many firms trying this on, I make sure I challenge them all the way, and recently took Sky to court for the same thing, and had all charges waived. It just means we spend more time trying to ensure we control our own money.

 

The sooner some MP makes an issue of this and forces firms to provide a DISCOUNT for paying by DD, rather than charging extra for not, will get my vote.

[demonbiker]

They do it because it is a useful source of additional revenue, and if you complain to the right beople it is credited without a murmur. With so many firms trying this on, I make sure I challenge them all the way, and recently took Sky to court for the same thing, and had all charges waived. It just means we spend more time trying to ensure we control our own money.

 

The sooner some MP makes an issue of this and forces firms to provide a DISCOUNT for paying by DD, rather than charging extra for not, will get my vote.

 

Orange have stopped letting you pay in shops from last month.

 

Who are the right people to complain to ? as customer svs are useless!

[buzby]

The Executive Office in Bristol is a good starting point, along with a statement that with regret, you'll be terminating your contract at the first opportunity as you do not believe in patronising firms that treat customers in such a cavalier manner. That should give them something to think about.

[elliesnan]

could you give me a contact number or address for sky buzby? cause we get charged £4 a month for NOT paying by dd

[elliesnan]

oh and what did you say or write in brief if you don't mind!!

[buzby]

The address is;

 

The Executive Office

ORANGE

PO Box 10,

Patchway,

Bristol, BS32 4QJ.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Account Number XXXXX

 

I have been a customer of Orange for XXX months/years, and am distressed to note that a recent change in your billing effectively penalises those who are adult and capable enough to conduct their financial affairs in a responsible matter.

 

Therefore it is with regret that if Orange cannot credit my account with the punitive amounts charged as a 'non DDM' fee, I will have no alternative but to terminate my contract at the first opportunity, as I do not believe in patronising firms that treat customers in such a cavalier manner. If you are agreeable to the crediting of these amounts and the removal of further similar charges, I will of course be happy to continue as an Orange subscriber.

 

If, however we cannot agree on the refund of these penalty charges, I will have no alternative to seek redress through the courts for the amounts taken to date, and any further amounts billed until the conclusion of the contract.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary?

 

Sincerely,

[buzby]

could you give me a contact number or address for sky buzby? cause we get charged £4 a month for NOT paying by dd

 

It's not really relevant to this thread, but take a look at;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/29691-sky-subscriber-services.html

 

If you need to know anything more, ask in there!

[BOF1951]

Buzby,

 

Thank you for posting a draft of the letter you sent. I am off tomorrow and will write to Orange.

 

Thanks again,

Regards,

Chris

[demonbiker]

Got my bill in this morning £55.82 for both phones on my account inc two NON D/D charges of £2.55 + VAT

 

Called 150 and spoke to billing enquires, told them i wasnt happy bieng penilised for not paying by dd, was told it was"a business decision to charge all non dd customers". I also asked why i was charged TWICE for non dd when i have one acccount with two phones and not two seperate bills??????

Instantly took one lot of charges off so i only have to pay one non dd charge , told them i wanted all charges removed and refund all payments i have made, they wouldnt do this and said even if i write to head office NO-ONE would be able to stop these charges!

 

Well we will see about that !!

Its a start but im not done yet!

[buzby]

Don't lose the bill that had them applied twice.... priceless! Clearly these firms are going to put their foot down and try to impose thse 'fines' so it may take the longer route to get them refunded by embracing Small Claims, but ultimately the number of people prepared to fight their corner Vs those who will roll over, I'm afaisd the latter will be more prevalent.

[BOF1951]

I was about to send the following to Orange, what do you think?

 

The Executive Office

ORANGE

PO Box 10,

Patchway,

Bristol

BS32 4QJ.

 

10th January 2006

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number xxxxxxxxx

 

I have a 'Talk Time share 300' account for which I receive one combined invoice for the two mobiles.

 

I have been a customer of Orange for over 5 years and up until recently I have been satisfied with the service I have received. However, the imposition of a charge of £2.55 + VAT per mobile number for not paying by Direct Debit has negated all the goodwill of that period.

 

I have taken advice on these charges and have been advised that they are penalties, not "Additional services" as itemised on my bill. As such, they should not have been levied.

 

I would ask that Orange refund all charges made to date in the form of a credit against my account. I would further ask that all similar charges be removed from any future invoice.

 

If Orange is unwilling to refund these charges, I will have no alternative but to terminate my contract at the first opportunity and seek redress through the courts for the amounts taken to date and any further amounts billed until the conclusion of the contract.

 

To that end, I would be obliged if you would kindly let me know under what Statute Orange are using to impose these penalty charges.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

[buzby]

Fine until the penultimate paragraph. In reality you don't CARE what Statute (and as that would be a law, therefore inappropriate for a customer billing dispute), you're not paying any 'fines' for being a good and loyal customer.

 

I'd suggest replacing it with;

 

I dislike being 'fined' in an unfair manner simply for being a loyal customer of your network, and look forward to your confirmation that these charges will be removed and not re-applied.

[BOF1951]

Buzby,

 

Thanks, I have amended the last paragraph and it will be in the post this afternoon.

 

It will be interesting to see Orange's response!

 

Regards,

Chris

[demonbiker]

Ive copied the letter with Buzby's suggested amendment and sending tomorrow.

I called orange tonight and got £3 credit on next bill for the £3 i paid last month! so lets see what gives!!

[BOF1951]

My letter to orange was posted on Sunday 14th January, so they would have received it on Monday. On Friday 19th January Orange telephoned my home 0870 number (the one I give to everyone other than friends and family) and I spoke to a very pleasant and courteous chap.

 

He was full of apologies for the ‘inconvenience’ and stated that he would credit my account with all of these charges from the date they were put onto my account; knock me over with a feather! I was completely lost for words and eventually managed to say “Thank you!”

 

Unfortunately, my new found faith in corporate integrity was immediately shattered when he then went on to say that as a result of an ‘operational ‘ decision, these charges, which were not in fact ‘charges’ but were ‘administrative costs’ involved in not having to collect the bill payment by Direct Debit, (I have given up trying to work out what that means!), would continue to be put onto my account.

 

I pointed out that it was not an operational decision, it was an accountant’s decision and if they wanted to, they could be stopped. He waffled a bit more when I said he was spouting a load of corporate management speak, but I quickly realised he was reading from a prepared script and he actually had no control over the matter.

 

I again thanked him for the credit to my account and said I would review my options when the telephones were out of contract. He replied that they were, as of the 20th December! Whoops! I thought it was March they went out of contract. So with a pleasant “Ok, thanks!” I left it at that.

 

I will not do anything about changing providers until I see the credit on the account as we should get at least a couple of months free usage.

 

Not a bad result really.

 

Chris

[buzby]

It might still get better. It is too early (as yet) to tell what the broader policy will be to those who challenge, and continue to challenge the fees. Most other firms (Sky & NTL) roll over and refund after letting you jump through a few hoops, but I have 2 accounts with Orange and neither of them have the threatened fee, so it looks as though it is simply a trial to see how it goes.

 

As to your current position, despite what you have been told on the phone, you made your position clear, and there's nothing preventing you from replying (again in writing) confirming the conversation, and the promised bill credit, but continue to assert that notwithstanding their earlier telephone call, you do not accept thire response that the fine was an operational decision, and you will continue to reject any and all charges of this nature. Should this be incompatable with them having you as a customer, they are at liberty to disconnect your service. However, whilst the service continues, you are advising that you do NOT accept these non-DD charges and ongoing service will indicate their acceptance of this.

 

This basically means that as long as they continue to offer you a mobile service, you will not be obliged to pay them any non-DD fees. They may of course pull the plug, but in this cut-throat world, any loyal customer is better than none.