Highview/DCB(L) ANPR PCN - Letter of Claim - Now Claimform - overstay - Riverside Retail Park in Norwich, Norfolk.

[lookinforinfo]

As Dave has already said there are Consideration periods and Grace periods to be taken into account when private parking is involved.

Before looking at that the first thing is to check whether your PCN complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which regulates the private parking rogues.

They were very good at twice quoting from the Act but they missed Section 9[2][e]

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges;

They didn't do that so they have not complied with the Act which means they cannot pursue you as the keeper only as the driver which they said themselves when quoting Section 9 [2][f] .

In addition they are supposed to quote the period of parking but instead given the times of arrival and departure of your vegicle which is not the same thing.Obviously their times  include the driving times to the parking place plus later from the parking place to the exit. So removing those times from your 15 minute overtime and that doesn't include extra minutes when your car was held up by stopping for pedestrians or other cars passing in front of you as well as returning the shopping trolley and possibly  queueing to get out of the car park. And that doesn't include children and or disabled people causing greater differences betwen their times and the actual parking period which is what is specified in the Act. It is perfectly possible that as much as fifteen minutes longer  could be taken in a larger busy car park compared to their spurious ANPR times.

You may have noticed sating well done to you in his post. that was for two reasons. The first for giving us all the necessary details surrounding the alleged breach. the second well done was for not appealing a possibly giving away who was driving. As you the keeper is not responsible now for paying the PCN and Highview do not know who was driving they will have difficulty if the take you to Court since Courts do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person which is quite right considering that quite often family members often drive as opposed to the keeper as can loads of other people drive your  who have valid insurance motor policies.

So don't worry even if you have to go to Court as the odds are in your favour and that's before we see the contract and Witness Statement which often give more ammunition against them.

[lookinforinfo]

Anotheruser they did mention some of S9 [2][e] but missed out the vital part by not  inviting the KEEPER to pay the debt.

Major fail. 

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

 

[lookinforinfo]

The Land owners are Nuveen Real Estate , a large American property investment company.

The UK director is  [email protected] and his surname is Sales he s not the Sales director.

You will have to specify the car park as he has probably never heard of Norwich [or Knarritch as the local call it].

[lookinforinfo]

Well done for boning up on Schedule 4 .

I expect you understand the point I was making about not inviting the keeper to pay the charge.

At the start of Section 9 the wording includes the word "must" which is a very important word legally.

It means that Highview have to include all the requirements stated in that section or subsection. If it's missed out the PCN does not comply with the Act and the keeper cannot be held liable to pay.

You have to make allowances for them .

The Act has only been in force since 2012 so it will take them a few more years yet before they get it right.

But it does emphasise the comprehension level of who you are dealing with.

Their solicitors are a tad below that level so most of your snotty letter will doubtless go over their heads.

But the Judge will appreciate the humour. if it gets that far. Probably the irony too of the solicitor getting some legal information that they are unaware of.

[lookinforinfo]

I wouldn't bother reading the Dummies book you are already overqualified to work there. And you have now gone over their heads again quoting CPR. As far as they know that is to do with resuscitation.

They  still don't know that the PCN is non compliant!!

Edited April 15 by lookinforinfo

[lookinforinfo]

Well you would think that would be the case. Sadly i doubt there is one honest broker within the BPA or IPC and most of their members. they are there to take as much money as they can from motorists regardless of PoFA.  

Take the Consideration  period for example. This is a minimum of 5 minutes to allow motorists to find a parking space, read the T&Cs giving them enough time to leave the car park without having to pay if they decide not stay. Simple. Well it would be simple if it were any other company than BPA [or IPC who have now fallen into line with BPA's "reasoning"]. 

You see if you decide to stay then despite the fact that during the Consideration period when you still weren't classed as parking , once you accept the terms [with all the underhand little tricks designed to trip you up] that five minutes is now included in your parking time.

[No not the parking period because the poor dears who ANPR cameras are apparently unable to work out what the exact parking period is since their ever so infallible cameras [yeah right] are incapable of tracking cars once they are in a car park]. After 12 years they still haven't worked out a way of doing it.

Some of them fudge and the majority [with a wink from their ATA [Accredited Trade Association though it should be Discredited Trade Association] just ignore the parking period all together.

This is what BPA claim is the Consideration period

• Entrance grace period: This is for when motorists enter a car park, read the signs and/or attempt to make payment then leave. In these instances, motorists must be offered a reasonable amount of time before an operator takes enforcement action, but we do not define this time, due to the variance in size and layout of car parks. An entrance grace period for a small, permit-only car park could be below 5 minutes, whereas for a large multi-story this could be 15.

But  heaven forbid that anyone should leave 6 or 7 minutes after entering  their member's car parks. . They are dutybound to receive a PCN. This is regardless of how busy the car park would be [Christmas eve for example ] .Our minimum is their maximum.

Moving on to Grace periods. Again BPA gobble degook.

• Exit grace period: This must be a minimum of 10 minutes and this is when a motorist intends to stay – for example, if you paid for an hour but spent a total of 1 hour 10 minutes on-site, you will not receive a PCN. It is important to note that the grace period is not a free period of parking however and should not be advertised as such.
• If that ten minutes in not free parking what is it. their members all think they can send out PCNs for anything after 1 minute after the exact time never mind ten minutes.

Our snotty letters have stood the test of time. Do not try to reinvent the wheel -especially with DCBL . They don't even know what a non compliant PCN is for goodness sake! You already know more about PoFA then they do. However if you include that they will find a way to disabuse the Judge of your logic and the law. So don't give them the chance. 

I am sure you have the Parking Prankster going on about the rogues misusing the rules on planning permission by lying and stating that they had "retrospective permission". There is no such thing in English law yet Judges were swallowing it until one Judge pulled up Parking Eye about one of their Witness Statements alluding to "rp" by claiming it was "tantamount to perjury".  It wasn't tantamount, it was plain and simple perjury.

Parking Prankster: The great private car park planning approval scam

PARKING-PRANKSTER.BLOGSPOT.COM

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Guest blog from shuteyepark, from the Consumer Action group forums In December 2013 my daughter received a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) fro...

Hope it wasn't too long winded Nicky Boy.

[lookinforinfo]

In response to your post 52, the new Government  Private parking Bill has been withdrawn for the moment and will not take effect until it comes into force. It cannot come soon enough but in the meantime the rogues are trying to rip as many motorists off as possible before the changes come into force.

Yes their interpretation of the Grace period is ludicrous it defies logic and the Law until it comes into force. But that's what you get when the lunatics run the asylum.

[lookinforinfo]

the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.  

Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 .

I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN.

It then goes on to explain a bit more further down

13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be. 

Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.

[lookinforinfo]

Though it would be Highview you would  pursue. DCBL are nonentities-on their best day,