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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Proof of ID to receive refund from online store


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I ordered online from a high street store and the order was supposedly delivered by DHL when I was not at home.

I did not find it in any of my safe places, nor could I see any pictures with the tracking or instructions on where or with whom it was left.

I alerted the store who sent me a ‘declaration of honour’ to sign - all my details, address, DOB, order details, date, signature etc. 

Their reply was that it had been left at the front door and to check with other people who live at the address or a neighbour as maybe they collected it or signed for the package.

When I followed up saying that as stated I had done all of that, the store requested that I provide them with a sworn statements and proof of ID before they would refund.

Considering I already provided them with a ‘declaration of honour’ I am not sure sharing my ID in a generic customer care email is smart and it certainly is something I have not been requested to do before.

Does anyone have any experience of this and would you advise that I do it in order to get refunded?

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Welcome to the forum.

Given that you have already provided this information once, I cant see a problem with providing it again with the added SOT and Proof of ID.

If you would name the on line store that would help us to see if we have any history of this being requested before.

 

Andy

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Thanks for the reply. I am uneasy about sharing my passport with a random store this doesn’t care anything about my data. Do you do the same for purchases and returns? 

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Passport ?  Copy of your council tax demand should suffice .or utility bill

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ID is a driving licence or passport, something with your photo on it surely? The store is a high end clothes brand. Their name has never been mentioned on the forum before. 

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I assume this store is not local and therefore you would have to post out the information. I wouldn't be posting my Passport or DL out to any retailer and certainly not for a refund for goods not delivered.

This must be a considerable amount if they are so insistent on ID.....as said Proof of ID can be what I have stated it does not necessarily have to be either of the 2 you referred to unless they have said that specifically in their email.?

Given you wont name the store then we cant check their refunds or returns policy so its difficult to advise if this is a one off or being awkward or standard policy.

I assume you paid by credit card/debit card threaten a section 75 or chargeback that may speed the process up.

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The Kooples - French clothes brand 

Not substantial at all, goods were just over £100.

I already signed a form with all details so besides ID discussion above, what is a ‘sworn statement’ even in request #2? These are aside from what I already happily and promptly provided called ‘declaration of honour’ so they could investigate with DHL. 

Edited by Pelatron
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pers id cut to the chase and launch a court claim against DHL. as DHL will just fob them off it WAS delivered and The Kooples will refuse refund. it simply a delaying tactic.

i've moved the thread to our postal forum.

you'll see lots of DHL court claim threads here.

as for ID , as @andyorch says, send them a copy of your CTAX bill.

photo ID is not necessary , they have no idea what you look like nor what your signature could ever be.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to The Kooples (French)/DHL - lost parcel - Proof of ID from kooples to require investigation with DHL

Never heard of a Declaration of Honor with regards to requesting a refund. A sworn statement is simply that a statement of none receipt and signed and dated.

DHL is their problem not yours they are their approved carrier.

https://www.thekooples.com/gb/en_GB/CGV_page.html

 

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That is the problem - they are making stuff up as they go along as I already signed a form before.

Trading standards? What rights have I got to refuse these obscene demands from people that don’t as much as share their real names and no surnames with you.

What confirmation do I have that they keep any customer data they collect in line with certain standards?

They’re charlatans with poor ratings webwide.

And no, ID can’t be a bill, your ID is certainly a photo proof of sorts. 

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it can be a CTAX bill

its simply verifying where you are and who you.

a ctax bill is the universal proof on most things like SAR requests etc. the FCA/ICO/FOS state its usefulness .

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • BankFodder changed the title to Proof of ID to receive refund from online store

How did you pay? - debit card or credit card?

Contact your bank and make a chargeback

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From the last section of their General Terms and Conditions (GTC).

"These GTC are governed by the law of the country selected on the International Website after selecting one of the countries of the United Kingdom."

So what would OP need to do if it was a UK company?

Not all of the waffle mentioned so far I'd guess...

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Coincidentally the following topic may be of interest to you Pelatron  :-

 

 

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Latest reply:

note, I don’t even drive and no, I am not providing them with any more documents that no store in my life asked me for because I think they’re just taking the mickey

In our last communication, we asked you to provide clear copies of your ID which can be also copies of your driver's license so we could forward this for the claim. 
 
Please let us know in the reply to this email if the copies of ID/Drivers license can be submitted. 
 
In the meantime, we have forwarded this to the relevant team as an urgent matter to push for the claim.

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7 minutes ago, Pelatron said:

no, I am not providing them with any more documents that no store in my life asked me for because I think they’re just taking the mickey

agreed 100%

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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If I were you I'd simply go back and quote s29(2)(a) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) to them:

"29  Passing of risk

(1) A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.

(2) The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—

(a) the consumer, or

(b) a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods."

 

If they (Kooples) are saying that the courier left the goods unattended outside your house, then they are rather stupidly admitting that the goods were never delivered into your "physical possession"  from the outset, and that they remained liable for them.  You can further point out to them that the legislation says nothing about you having to provide proof of identity in order to get your refund.  Who you are is irrelevant anyway.  All they need to do is to process the refund to the card you originally paid with.

If they still won't cough up you'll need to send a Letter Before Claim and sue them.

 

[Edit:  a Declaration of Honour sounds decidedly French.  Perhaps that - plus proof of ID - is how they do things in France]

 

 

 

Edited by Manxman in exile
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doesnt apply unless they are registered and trading in the uk.

go after dhl.

 

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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4 hours ago, dx100uk said:

doesnt apply unless they are registered and trading in the uk.

go after dhl.

dx

 

Perhaps.  But it can't do any harm to spell out to the UK based operation what the legal position is.  That would be my next step.

What would be the cause of action against DHL in any case?  Was @Andyorch wrong when he said

On 12/07/2023 at 14:45, Andyorch said:

... DHL is their problem not yours they are their approved carrier.

https://www.thekooples.com/gb/en_GB/CGV_page.html

?

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IF the items were ordered via 

WWW.THEKOOPLES.COM

The Kooples Official store : Shop our latest clothing collections and discover a sophisticated and modern clothing line for women, men and couples

uk consumer laws dont apply.

as for DHL ...i'd stop wasting time and send DHL a letter of complaint the parcel was not delivered.

then move to Letter of claim

and then court claim.

you can't sue a foreign ghost that even if you got judgement against you couldn't enforce it.

wake up.

 

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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same as any std claim here against evri or DHL or WHY. 

failure to deliver...prove it.

for all we know the delivery guy could have stolen it.

there is no proof of actual delivery.

same as all the lost parcel claims here.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

But the OP doesn't have a contract with Evri to deliver it.  So what is the legal basis of the claim? 

If A purchased B from C, but C used D to deliver B to A, and the delivery failed, what is the basis of A's  claim against D?

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the OP's legal rights are against the trader (C), not the courier (D). 

So what is the basis of the claim?  If the seller doesn't cough up, how does the OP persuade a UK court that Evri should pay up?

Is it Torts (Interference with Goods) legislation?  You haven't answered which (1) doesn't help the OP if they need to claim and (2) makes me think you don't know...

 

Edited by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed
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1 hour ago, Manxman in exile said:

But the OP doesn't have a contract with Evri to deliver it.

quite correct

DHL.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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